Palehosefan

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 02:19 PM) I was more pointing out that it appears we are bitter Bulls fans and are throwing MJ in their face to make us feel better when in actuality the whole country is doing that. If anything the Bulls fans will be cheering for Jordans legacy to take a hit this year and have Kobe beat the three headed monster. If he can do that he is bringing himself to a whole new level. That kind of comment just makes no sense to me. Kobe is the one douche always trying to one-up MJ. He was crying after winning 3 titles already and demanding a trade from LA to a better situation. He only stayed in LA because he got a top 15 player given to him in Pau Gasol. This would have been no different if Bosh actually wanted to play in Cleveland.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 01:48 PM) Palehose, you're my boy, but you're a Heat fan. There's no way for you to be objective. This isn't Bulls fans picking on Lebron. This is EVERYBODY calling it what it is. You're bringing up Jordan and Magic and Kobe and any other superstar who won a title with great players as some defense for Lebron. IT IS NOT THE SAME THING! Imagine MJ's a free agent in 1990 and he bolts for the Lakers to team up with Magic and Worthy to win rings? Would Jordan be anywhere near the consensus GOAT? Hell f***ing no. What if Kobe had left the Lakers after 2007 only to team up with Tim Duncan and the Spurs to win rings? Could you imagine what people would be saying about Kobe? Nobody is saying Lebron is obligated to win rings with scrubs. He obviously wants to win and is making sacrifices to do so. But he's settling. That's where the criticism comes from. There's no authenticity. At least not for a guy that many believed had a legitimate chance to match or exceed MJ's legacy. But it's obvious he doesn't and never really cared about his legacy. He's not Michael. He's not Kobe. We thought he was, but he's not. He's not the cut-throat competitor that he liked us to believe that he was. He wants rings and will do whatever it takes to get them. And I can respect that in a sense. But "King" and "Chosen One" and "the Gift" and whatever dumbass name that he never really earned anyway, nobody wants to hear it anymore. Nice post. I just have never heard LeBron say that he wants to be the greatest ever, but then again I haven't paid attention to every interview. The only things I have ever heard from him are that he wants to be the next billion dollar athlete and businessman like Magic and that he wants to win championships. He listed the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs etc and their multiple titles as what's driving him. MJ had a 24 year old Scottie Pippen coming off of a 16.5 pg, 6.7 rpg, 5.4 apg, 2.6 spg, All-Star season season in 1990 when he re-signed to stay in Chicago. LeBron extended his contract with Cleveland after 05-06 to give Cleveland a chance for 4 more years. He gave Cleveland 7 years to find himself some help, and the best they came up with was geritol Shaq and over the hill Antawn who has always been a garbage team producer. I don't disagree with the way the decision was handled was absurd, but I think that's more of a case of LeBron trusting his childhood friends way more than he should have.

I disagree with a ton of stuff on here, but this has been my favorite thread in a long, long time.

Again, how in the world does this make Kobe likable? The dude won 3 championships in a row coming into the league, and the second the championships stopped he started demanding trades. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketba...ts_trade-1.html These guys are no different, if they aren't winning it all, they want to improve their situation. MJ might not have done the same thing as Kobe or LeBron, but that's why we all agree he was the greatest. Dwyane Wade wouldn't have stayed in Miami by himself either, he only stayed when Bosh committed. Dwyane saw the difference between having a superstar like Shaq on the roster, vs a group of good players.

Again, you can't compare staying in Chicago or LA to staying in Cleveland. I can't even imagine how much complaining MJ, Bird, or Magic would have done with 7 years in the league and very limited help on the roster. There's no possible way of knowing what MJ, Kobe, Bird, Magic, etc would have done in the situation because they all had major help within 3 years. LeBron, or any other player in history aren't good enough to win a championship on their own. I think he finally figured that out. He came into the league with the bravado of being the best ever and he could do it on his own in Cleveland, and finally realized he couldn't and that nobody wanted to play there with him.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 11:40 AM) And this is why Lebron lost respect. Lets say MJ needed another player in Chicago, and called up Magic. Magic says "Sorry MJ Id love to play with you, but Im not going to Chicago." Do you think MJ then turns around and goes to play with Magic? No So Lebron let Bosh turn him into a joke. Lebron couldnt lure 1 free agent to cleveland? He couldnt sell 1 player on a sign and trade? Bulls***. Lebron took the easiest road possible. Quit comparing him to MJ, its nonsense. Pippen wasnt one of the best players before he came to Chicago, he became one of the best players with MJ. Wade was already a Champion, Lebron will have 1 less ring no matter what they do. Would that have been acceptable to MJ? No You are seriously comparing Cleveland to Chicago as a FA destination? If a FA passed up the offer to play with MJ, another would follow soon. Cleveland as a basketball organization has won SQUAT before LeBron came along, and couldn't get him enough help in his 7 years. Do I think Michael would have gone to the Magic? Who knows, maybe he would have retired again, or gone to play baseball earlier or joined the Bullets. You can unclench your butt cheeks about LeBron vs. Jordan. We all know MJ was the greatest. LeBron is one of the all-time greats as well. Will he catch Jordan? I doubt it, but I don't have any doubt he will go down at least in the category of Magic, Bird, Kobe etc on the 2nd tier.

QUOTE (Chi Town Sox @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 11:31 AM) I never said that made them better, Mo Williams actually put up better numbers before he had come to Cleveland and joined the All-Star team. An all-star is an all-star, you can't say that Z wouldn't have made the team if a Center was a different position, that makes no sense. I never said these players were amazing, but he has had a better supporting cast than what he is given credit for. He has had the decent supporting cast and all of the role players, the grindy Anderson Varajeo's, the three point shooter Daniel Gibson, the high flyer Jamario Moon. He just didn't get it done and gave up on it now, I am pretty sure he has had a big hand in the players they have gotten and he has helped decide who to go out and get. He should have stayed and finished the business You can't stay in Cleveland and finish your business. Bosh wanted no part of playing in Cleveland. Boozer stabbed Cleveland in the back at the first chance he could find. It's not like LeBron was drafted into a FA destination location. He had to be moved to a different location for a championship, as not even Michael could win a title without another HOF player on the roster. This stuff is hilariously overblown. LeBron needed a star like Wade on the roster for a title, just like MJ needed Scottie, Kobe needed Pau, Robinson needed Duncan, etc etc. If Bosh would have agreed to Cleveland, none of this would have ever happened. The only legitimate gripe people should have is the horrendous 1 hour spectacle last night. That was just awful in every sense of the word. That's what happens when you have a childhood friend running your business.

Dirtiest commitment I have seen in a long time. http://rivals.yahoo.com/texastech/football...ImLQ2DACGUOuJB4 Los Angeles kid picks SMU over offers from USC, UCLA, Texas A&M, Washington, Arizona, Arizona State, Oregon State etc.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 10:42 AM) He's a top 50 all time right? If Scottie had the Shaq Wade had, he wins rings when Michael was retired. I will retract my statement, I can't think of a better SF in the 90's.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 10:35 AM) Jordan > LeBron Pippen = Wade Rodman/Grant Bulls bench > Heat bench ??????? Scottie was a HOF player, but it's hard to rate him as one of the top 5 players in his era.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 09:25 AM) ya, even if they have 5 players now, 7 spots will have holds on it, minimum contracts are around $500K, they are now over cap from what i understand. What I'm saying is that you can go over the cap if it's filling out the roster with veteran minimums.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 09:08 AM) can someone tell me how the heat manage to sign miller for $30 million, presumably $5 million the first season? the big 3 and chalmers takes about $51 millions. that plus 8 cap holds will not be enough for them to sign a $5 million contract. This is really screw up that the heat is taking away everyone's free agent this offseason. I hope the big 3 gets injured all at the same time and they have to sport their lineup of scrubs. You can always fill out the roster with veteran minimum contracts. LBJ + Wade + Bosh + Miller + Chalmers should be around 56M. From what I understand, the Heat could offer someone like Ilgauskas or Raja Bell 2M and then fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimums and the 2nd round pick's.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 08:17 AM) Stop rubbing it in already... On a serious note, I have to give the three guys props for realizing they need more than just themselves. That impressed me quite a bit. I can rub it in because I'm one of the apparent few that believe the Bulls are title contenders with Boozer and a decent SG.

Beasley traded and Mike MIller signed 5 years 30M. I love it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:11 PM) If Lebron went to NYK or Nets, id still really respect him. Say WHAT? You would respect him more if he chose a crappy franchise where he won't win but will be in the limelight over a franchise where he will win but have less endorsement money? Very odd.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:40 PM) Bernstein said it well today, not knowing 100% it was the Heat, but he said if he went to the heat he takes himself out of the debate for all-time greats with MJ, Magic, etc... You do realize that Magic played with 2 other HOF players pretty much his entire career don't you? Didn't hurt Magic or Larry Bird playing with a ton of other HOF players. They were clearly the best players on the floor. Some nights Kareem would take over, or McHale, or Parrish or Worthy etc etc. These arguments are absurd. Michael wouldn't have won s*** without Scottie. There's no reason LeBron won't be the best player on the floor most nights.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:09 PM) He's still not close to top-25. Hell, I can't think of a single team where he would be their best player (maybe the now craptastic Cavaliers), so that's at least 30. You are right Zoom, I think he's in the 30-35 range like this article states. http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/slamo...mar-odom-no-33/ But once you get past about 18-20 guys, a list becomes very tough to put together.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:55 PM) 4? Who's the other one? Bynum is already a stretch for the top-25, I have no idea who the other one is. Artest? Odom? Lamar Odom. Career 15, 9, and 4 guy that can defend, distribute, and score when needed.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:49 PM) This makes them a 65 win team and it makes them the HEAVY favorites to win the title. The people you talked about might be douchebags, but they have not killed the NBA. That just doesn't make sense. The Lakers STILL have more talent than the Heat right now. Unless Pat Riley can work some magic, the Lakers are going to go into the season with more talent. Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest is without a doubt still greater than LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. Unless the Heat find someone to defend 7 footers, it's going to be a struggle against Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol etc.

This board has lost it's mind. You have one team in the Lakers that were given the flopping Pau Gasol for nothing, have a possible rapist and certified douchebag as it's leading scorer. Has the piece of crap Artest and the fakest fanbase in the land. Then you have Miami with fans that have never won much, 3 guys that have never been in trouble, and now it's the Lakers as the good guys? Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce are bigger piece of craps than anyone on the Heat roster. I can understand some frustration, but my goodness take a step back and breathe. The Bulls have a fantastic roster and will be contenders. But you can't talk s*** on LeBron after what Boozer did to Cleveland. LeBron actually took less money and left his hometown all because he wanted to win. He didn't care about being the main man, or Michael Jordan. He just wants to win. Nevermind that Kobe couldn't win s*** without at least one other top 10 player in the world in Shaq or Pau Gasol down low. This is not going to give Miami championships, it just makes them a strong contender. The Lakers still have two top 10 guys and arguably 4 top 25 guys in the NBA. The Bulls have a loaded roster, as do the Thunder etc. Nothing is given. Believing so is silly and foolish.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 07:27 PM) @ChristopherHine - RT @gregcote: LeBron-to-Miami may not be happening. Heat has canceled a full-page welcome ad in The Miami Herald. This time I'm serious. Ira Winderman IraHeatBeat Heat pulled James, Bosh, Wade print ads not because of any knowledge of James decision, but because of unsigned status of Bosh and Wade. 1 minute ago via web However, I am expecting this to all be a buildup to staying in Cleveland.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:18 PM) It goes by what LeBron's posse "leaks" on a daily basis. Way too much posse leakage for my taste. I wouldn't be shocked if he chose Cleveland. Every sign in the world points to Miami, but I expect Cleveland until it's actual over.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:15 PM) The evidence of the last two weeks? Who likes two week old sources? Don't they smell bad?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:13 PM) No one has any clue. LeBron's posse is playing games, and has been all along. Source?