fathom

And if you read the NY Daily News article that's linked on rotoworld, the deal seems more likely to happen than to not happen. There's going to be a lot of pissed of Sox fans when they look on this message board when they wake up in around 5 hours.

If we get Duncan in this deal, we can kiss either Anderson, Sweeney, or McCarthy good bye. I still think that the deal will involve more than just PK in terms of Sox major league players. If we give up Garland in this trade, KW shouldn't hold the title of GM another day.

No cash is being exchanged in the 3-way deal, so we'd likely be having to pay for Vazquez entire contract.

Would have been a lot better off saving the money and Timo and using it in a deal to sign Mackowiak if he's non-tendered. He could fill in at 3b against tough righties on occasion. But of course, KW would never let one of his favorite guys go.

I put a lot of this blame on f***ing Ozzie Guillen. His stupid desire to play smallball in the American League in a massive homer park is going to screw this team. He would rather have mediocre/average players like Willie Harris or Scott Podsednik that can run than players that can actually hit a 3-run homer. Hey, we're getting what a lot of people warned us about when we signed him....Ozzie wants players that play like he did when he was here (and he sucked as a hitter!).

BTW, the only way that this trade would make any sense is if a lot of Vazquez's salary is paid by the Dodgers, but it doesn't seem like that would happen. Vazquez makes about 12 million, while the Sox guys being traded make about 14 million. If KW is doing this to save 2 million dollars, then he's a bigger dumbass than we give him credit. Now, if we were to save like 8 million dollars in this, and he turned around and tried to sign Odalis, Pierzynski, and Polanoo with the new money, I would actually support this trade. However, I don't see the Dodgers giving up any money.

Projected lineup would be 1b- Gload 2b- Harris 3b- Crede SS- Uribe Lf- Podsednik CF- Rowand RF- Dye C- Davis DH- Thomas/Everett Folks, that's one of the worst hitting teams in the majors right there. And guess what, we'd still be without a number 5 starting pitcher, and we'd be missing our most reliable reliever over the last 3 years.

Well, it looks as if KW is trying to involve himself in the big RJ trade by offering a package of Konerko, Garland, and Marte for Javier Vazquez. Well, this would be one of the worst trades in history if you ask me. KW, if you do this trade, you will not believe the outrage that occurs by Sox fans. Our offense will be the worst in baseball next year, and JR is too f***ing cheap to sign even average players. How f***ing pathetic is it that we don't even have enough confidence in KW to not even make the dumbest of trades? EDIT: Since this talk is turning out to be bunk, I (Showtime) changed the title of this topic.

Carlos is all but locked up for the next two years for a sum of about 15.5 million dollars. In this market, that's extremely cheap for a .300/30/100 type of player. I know a lot of us care so much about the White Sox that we develop a bias for certain players. However, all you have to do is read what unbiased baseball experts have to say about the Carlos trade. Rotoworld might have been the only source who said that the trade was decent for the White Sox. KW has just a terrible reputation among baseball analysts.

No, it just goes to show that it was pretty obvious that Clement was the impact starter that KW had his sights set on. However, if the 3/21 (which I gathered from different sources like Tribune, Bruce Levine, Comcast, but am fairly certain it was in the vicinity) was all that KW could afford to spend on a pitcher, he's better off just filling in other holes cause he won't get an impact starter this offseason at that price. A big problem I had with the Carlos trade was that it didnt really fill any of the team's glaring holes. We could have used Carlos to get us a starting pitcher. The only thing that the trade did was make the 4 million we're spending on Everett seem even more pointless.

Difference between Johan and Cotts is that Santana has 3 pitches, while Cotts only has 1 right now. The only reason that Santana was in the majors in 2000 was cause he was a Rule V draftee, and had to remain at that level to remain on the Twins. Also, Santana has a more lively arm than does Cotts. However, on this current staff, I could see how people would think that Cotts could be a potential number 3 pitcher. It wouldn't shock me at all if Cotts was our number 4 pitcher by the all-star break next year.

If KW really thought that 3 yr, 21 million was going to get Clement signed when competing against Red Sox and Angels, he's dumber than I thought. I've never heard of a team hoping for a hometown discount when he wasnt even on the White Sox last year.

YES. KW's line about saving the money for a deadline deal was a perfect excuse to use against criticism. I don't know about you, but I've never head of a GM saving 6 million for a deadline deal. I'm calling KW a f***ing liar on this one. Just for the record, I was saying this the second I heard him on the radio the day of the Lee trade. If KW goes out and spends money this offseason, I will apologize to him. I hope I'm wrong, but I feel this was a salary dump all the way. I think that the bad things that have come out about Carlos the last few days was a way for KW to deflect some of the criticism for the deal.

The only way I could understand KW not bringing in another starting pitcher is if he upgrades the Sox at other positions by bringing in a few guys like Pierzynski, Polanco, or others. I would hate that we'd have to go with Grilli or Cotts, but I would be a lot more confident in our lineup. Rather, if this team stays at it is, KW is a f***ing idiot who deserved to be fired 2 years ago.

Well, since they didn't sign Clement, I would assume that it would only increase the chance that he "may" enter camp as the 5th starter. Also, on no planet is a 7.40 ERA acceptable from a starting pitcher. If we want a crappy 5th starter, Cotts is a better option cause at least he has potential.

Here's the link for anyone with a username/password.Sox article

On chicagosports.com, there's an article that states that Grilli will likely go into spring training with the 5th spot his to lose... :fyou KW. Also, it says that Ben Davis will definitely be offered abritration. I can't see the Sox spending like 1.5 million on Davis and also offer A.J. Pierzynski like 3.5 million a year. Looks like another disaster of a season waiting too happen if you ask me. Please, will any true Sox fan not believe KW's bulls*** if he says that they're saving money for June/July. If you really want to make your team better, you play for the whole season, and not just half the season. We can't trust KW to make good trades anyway. The Sox could be 5 games out, and I'm sure he'd still look to trade Sweeney, Anderson, or McCarthy for some 35 year old injury plagued outfielder.

With the absolute s*** that KW has done to this team the past few years, why should we not b**** about it? He's the laughingstock general manager of the baseball world. And you think things are bad now? Wait until the Cubs sign Beltran in a month.

The Brewers will absolutely not trade Ben Sheets. They're under new management, and they have the farm system in place where they will have a solid squad in a few years. Their GM has been on record as saying that Sheets is untouchable. I guarantee you they'll resign him to a 4 yr, 40 mil contract sometime this year.

Exactly why there was no reason to waste the million on Timo. Backup outfielders are incredibly easy to sign for the minimum also if need be. It would have been much wiser to spend the million on a 2nd baseman like Cairo or Grudz (Polanco and Cabrera will cost too much).

Am I the only one who's baffled that Grilli is being considered for the 5th starter slot after he posted a 7.40 ERA last year for the Sox? Not only that, but I remember him getting out of a ton of jams in those outings. He could have easily had an ERA in the 10 range.

I totally agree with you that those 3 moves would make this offseason an absolute success. We didn't get Clement, so it's time to move on. I just would be more confident if I knew that KW wanted to spend the money from the Carlos trade.

I hope any of the foolish posters that state they wouldn't mind Grilli or Schoeneweis also realize who 2 of our other 4 starters are to begin with. Maybe if we had the Cubs top 4 in their rotation, we could risk a number 5 starter who not a lot would be expected from. However, Garland and Contreras are no better than 4 or 5 starters themselves. Every game that Contreras pitches, you never know if he'll make it out of the first inning. And we all know the tribals and tribulations of Jon "Judy" Garland. On a team with inferior players starting like Willie Harris, Ben Davis, and Joe Crede, this type of rotation will not work. Our offense will not be nearly as good as it was for the first part of last year. Sometimes it really seems that KW has a plan...but it's just ignorant. All these players that he says he has his eye on (Schoeneweis, Hermanson) aren't exactly good major leaguers.

According to the article, they don't trust Zambrano to stay healthy the entire year, and might look to move him to the bullpen. The Mets seem to be going after every free agent, wouldn't shock me to see Odalis come down to Mets, Angels, and Marlins.

There was a report last night on the espndeportes website that Odalis Perez is interested in joining the Mets and Pedro Martinez. I haven't heard one thing about the White Sox being interested in Odalis.