jeremyb

Kip Wells had a 96 mph fastball and a very good curveball, it was just a matter of him throwing enough strikes. Garland lives and dies with his sinker, and when he tries to throw strikes with other pitches, he gets hit hard. Garland's talents have been greatly overstated. DBAH0, why should Garland get a raise again? He is making about 2M now and is having a 5.00+ ERA, sub-.500 W-L season. Retaininng him as a promising 5th starter at 2M is one thing. 4M is out of the question - Mark "82 wins, 36 losses" Mulder is making 4 M this year for crying out loud!

1. No to 38yo Vizquel. Uribe will out-produce him next year in every way. 2. Buerhle's 2005 salary is 5.5 M, not 8 3. Marte's 2005 salary is 1.25 M, not 2.5. 3. Garland deserves a salary reduction, not raise based on his peformance (2M) 4. Ben Davis was making 1.5 this year and had really bad overall #. No raise for him. 5. Get rid of Everett. He's breaking down and can't field anymore. 6. You forgot Pierre (3.5 M). Sox need a lead-off man. Give 'em good prospects. 7. Say no to Koskie. No Twin on this team. I prefer using some of Magglio's money on Beltre. Call me crazy. So roughly: CF Pierre (3.5) RF Rowand (-) DH Thomas (8) 3B Beltre (8 first year then escalates) LF Lee (8) 1B Konerko (8.75) SS Uribe (-) C Davis/Burke (1.5) 2B Willie/Hairston (plat.) (-) Garcia (8) Odalis (6) Buerhle (5.5) Contreras (6) Garland (2) Shingo (2.5) Mota (3.5) Marte (1.25) Wunsch/Munoz (-) Bajenaru (-) Adkins (-) Bench (2 total) Total: 80 M Current payroll: 69 M

Buy. 5th starter. That is all.

'Never' is such a strong word. I'd be careful.

Uh-huh. rolleyeyes.gif

Oh yeah?

I think you have to take some ritalin.

Maggs, Koch, Jose, Politte, Schoeneweis, Jackson, Everett (buy-out), Loaiza, Sandy, Timo and Robbie to be precise. 35 Million in all. Plus whatever comes from year-to-year revenue increases and Comcast. Lead-off hitter: Pierre (3.5) Reliever: Mota (4) Starter: Pavano/Perez (7-8) Slugger: Beltre (10-12) Willie's platoon: Hairston/Polanco (cheap) Sure, might have to part with Crede, Borchard, Munoz, etc since 3 of the above are not FA eligible....but that's a small price to pay when you haven't won jack since 1917 imo.

Not gay at all. Just a couple of silly toads on a banning spree. Nothing out of the ordinary. :sleep

As long as the following are addressed: -front-line starter -front-line reliever -clean-up slugger -lead-off hitter -RH platoon mate for Willie I am fine with it. Odalis instead of Pavano? I'm down wit dat.

1. Sox are horrible against lefties. A RH hitter is just what the doctor ordered. 2. In the 21st century AL, when games are often decided by a 8-6 score, hitting is almost as big a priority as pitching is. And by "hitting" I mean OBP and Slugging, not sacrifice bunts. 3. Beltre is Beltre. 10-11 M for a Gold-Glove-fielding, all-field slugger who is just 25yo? Where do I sign? You do realize that Magglio was making 14M, right? Getting Beltre shouldn't preclude the Sox from going after a lead-off hitter, a front-line starter and a BP arm. Always striving for balance.

Pinpoint control, fantastic movement and pure intimidation are what made Pedro - Pedro. Velocity was a nice bonus that made him a great pitcher instead of merely very good. Clemens, too, had good control and an unhittable secondary pitch - he'd be just another Matt Anderson or Kyle Farnsworth if all he had going for him was his heater. Randy Johnson? He threw 99 mph in his early-mid-20s. He was also a veritable pinata until he learned to locate and set hitters up. Deception. Control. Movement. Speed differential. More control. If you have mastered those ancient concepts, you don't need to throw 95+ to make hitters look silly.

Oh she better be. We will never know the full extent of the damage done to the team by the 5th starter fiasco in the last 2 years. Baseball is about momentum and intangibles as much as any game, if not more - like Botch's blown saves, those automatic losses every 5th day seemed to almost demoralize the team....If Judy goes 14-8 in that role next year, that would give the 2005 team the kind of boost not available to 2003-2004 squads.

Please, Sox won 7 of 8 against the Twins at one point in May and June - with Magglio and Thomas hurt no less. The only loss coming courtesy of one Neal "El Pretty" Cotts. Put the CF Pierre RF Rowand DH Thomas 3B Beltre LF Lee 1B Konerko SS Uribe C Davis/Burke 2B Willie/Polanco/Hairston (platoon of two) Garcia Pavano Buerhle Contreras Garland/Loaiza (the latter health-contingent) Shingo Mota Marte Wunsch/Munoz Bajenaru Adkins team on the field next year and I guarantee you Twins do not come within 10-12 games of 1st place. Maybe 15+ if they start selling off in July. Of course the 80 M price tag will scare Jerry off, but that's a subject for another thread.

You mean like somebody was gonna give Robbie 2 years/5 Mill last off-season? Nobody is gonna pay 4 Mill for a 6.50 ERA pitcher, which is what Loaiza has been since late June. He must prove he is 100% healthy and his 2003 armspeed is back first.

What I am saying is.....after the disgusting 2002-2004 - no, after 1918-2004 -, the term 'gloating' shouldn't even be in our collective lexicon. Especially, not when the pitcher in question is gazillion years old and might just lose those 3-4 mph off his fastball in the off-season himself. Karma. Sorry, but we get to laugh at/feel sorry for the Yankees the day World Series Parade comes to the South Side, and not a second sooner. Understand now?

All this misguided gloating over swindling the Evil Empire cannot possibly end well. Karma. Instead of thanking our lucky stars that Contreras has a healthy (knock on wood) arm and might just give the Sox a tremendeous boost in the next 2 years, people are dancing in the streets essentially over the fact that Loaiza busted up his arm trying to carry the 2003 team into post-season and is unable to give the Yankees equitable value. Yankees, Steinbrenner, Cahsman. Torre will once again make the World Series this year. They might win it all. Where will Kenny "Great Swindler" Williams and the Sox be? I thought so.

Nuts? Why? Because you value deceptive delivery, pinpoint control and changing of speeds over a blistering fastball? Look at Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Santana, Livan, Maddux, Mussina, Radke, Perez, Glavine, Leiter, Boomer, Pettite, Peavy, Buerhle among others. 92 mph is as high as it gets. And yet...

I wouldn't say "terrible", but let's just say their respective teams fell out of love with them rather quickly. And with all due respect to Beltre and Pavano, they are one-year wonders until proven otherwise. Now, I happen think they're not flukes, but when it comes to exorbitant long-term contracts, history of performance and health is usually heavily weighted.

After Colon/Ponson/Millwood fiasco, teams will be less williing to shell out more than 7-8 mill for a pitcher with a long history of under-performance and injuries. Yankees, the team that loves to overpay, might make a play for Big Unit again, Pedro will be out there as well. One way or another, one of Perez/Clement/Pavano could fall into our lap. I could easily see a back-loaded contract, starting with 6-7 M. If not, then Sox could always settle for a (healthy) Loaiza as a #4 at a bargain-basement price.

Matt Anderson used to throw 100 too IIRC. Hudson, Santana and Mulder top out at 92 and seem to be faring just fine. Let Francis and Capellan burn themselves out, Steve Dalco-style. BMac's control and make-up might eventually take him as far, if not farther, than the aformentioned flame-throwng studs. Fingers crossed.

Asking is one thing, getting it is another. Teams have been burned on Delgado, Green, Vaughn, A-Rod, Jeter, Hidalgo, Belle and Manny - and actually had a track history of great success before signing mind-boggling contracts.....as opposed to just having one season of dominance following 6 seasons of mediocrity in Beltre's case. And besides, 10 M is just a first year sum. It escalates from there.

3.5 - 8 10 8.5 8.75 - 1.5 - 9 7.5 5.5 6 2 2.5 3.5 1.5 - - - - - - 4 Are you saying 83 Mill is "s***load" of money? Right now the payroll is sitting right at 70 M with Everett, Garcia and Robbie.

CF Pierre RF Rowand DH Thomas 3B Beltre LF Lee 1B Konerko SS Uribe C Davis/Burke 2B Willie/Polanco (pl.) Garcia Pavano Buerhle Contreras Garland/Loaiza (the latter health-contingent) Shingo Mota Marte Wunsch/Munoz Bajenaru Adkins/Garland Gload Spidale Valdez Everett/Valentin Works for me.