rangercal

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ May 22, 2008 -> 06:44 PM) Stoney was on The Score earlier pretty much berating the Cubs for dealing Hamilton for $50k. That's Got Bambino Curse all over it!

He would have to fall off the face off the earth to not get 110. He is on pace for 178 right now. Heck, he does not have to get 1 RBI from now until July and he would still be on pace for 110. I think he gets it.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:27 PM) Deng + Kirk + Tyrus? Maybe... If you could work something like Deng Kirk Tyrus 1st rounder for Melo Camby That'd obviously be ridiculous... leaving us with Camby/Noah - Gooden/Noah - Melo - Gordon/Hughes - Rose If Pax pulled that Deal off, I would start a parade.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:24 PM) Well, no s*** give me Melo, but what's it going to cost? I'm sure they'd want the pick. I don't think Deng + Tyrus + change will net you what you want, and they sure as hell don't want Gordon with Smith and Iverson on the roster. I think we can compete with what ever NJ was offering (without giving up the pick)

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:25 PM) That's a big one right there, Smith was very good for us for the first part of the season, that and Gooden's stats look a lot better than his actual contributions. We still don't have one guy I'd call a comfortably above average post player and none of them are complete players. Tyrus and Noah can't score and Gooden can't defend. I don't think it's a stretch to say we can get Brand for Hinrich and one of Gooden/Nocioni/Thomas (maybe even 2 if it has to be), and we wouldn't miss any of them. Carmelo Anthony on the other hand would minimally cost us Deng, and probably 2 or 3 more pieces. If that's the case, I'm all for it. I would trade a lot for Carmelo, including deng (obviously because he replaces him in the lineup). That would be the perfect way to consolidate the roster.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:13 PM) Fair enough. I do think the team would be better, especially offensively, with a Brand-Deng frontcourt than a Nocioni/Gooden-Deng frontcourt. The team would be much more balanced and consistent. Obviously I agree. I was only making the argument that we should address something else first. I would like to see a deal for brand if 1. Nothing else is available and/or 2. We get him for the right price. Meaning, It would really hurt to lose Deng in a deal for Brand.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:04 PM) You're jumping to some pretty wild conclusions here... all I said was "what does it mean" not "gee I really hope the Bulls get Brand back" (although I really like Brand and would really like him if he was here... but I never said that in this thread). sorry , misunderstood you. I did not want you to think that I was saying Gooden = Brand.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 22, 2008 -> 11:54 AM) To my knowledge, Brand's had one major injury, which was last year. I can't recall anything before that. But yeah Brand is a complete 20-10 PF... I like Gooden, but cmon. They're not in the same class. I don't think anyone is saying they are in the same class. But why take on 9 MIL MORE in salary and give up 3-4 pieces for a position we are fine at? I can see if we were to package 3-4 of our former top 10 picks to get a bigger shooting Guard(maybe Tmac) or a star small forward, but a power forward? No Thanks.

ok... so you guys would sell the farm to get maybe +5-6 in pts and + 1 rebounds per game? For a player who makes more than twice the salary as gooden and is a few years older? If you check out our PF stats http://www.82games.com/0708/0708CHI5.HTM PF was our strongest position! I can think of 5-6 big names you go after before Brand. Geez, you guys are really overrating brand. Give me the 23 year old Carmelo any day of the week.

QUOTE (daa84 @ May 22, 2008 -> 11:00 AM) Where did you come up with this conclusion? Deron Williams 04-05 fg% 43.3 3pt% 35.4 (his last season with Illini) Derrick Rose 07-08 fg% 47.7 3pt% 33.7 Deron Williams 07-08 fg% 50.7 3pt% 39.5% Seems to me that Rose had better overall shooting stats as a freshman then Deron had as a Junior. At 19 , I can see Rose making the same shooting improvements that Deron made by his 3rd full season. So this means that Rose can not be the 2nd? Why not? Because Paul beat him to it? Magic and Isiah played at the same time. I don't think it's fair to compare Rose to Deron or cp3, at the same time, I don't think it's fair to assume he can't match or pass their play in the NBA.

QUOTE (Gregory Pratt @ May 22, 2008 -> 12:34 AM) No. good point.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ May 22, 2008 -> 10:50 AM) Rose - Gordon - Deng - Shawn Marion - Noah I wonder what else it would take to land him? I mean it could not be hinrich alone, could it? I would think it would also take Tyrus.

so yeah... link Though Aldridge is a very good player, I will cry if that happened.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ May 22, 2008 -> 10:10 AM) The Bulls would have to give up Deng and Thomas at least (probably more) if they wanted Melo also. How do people feel about David Lee and the 6th for Tyrus Thomas FWIW? Deng, Thomas would not be a problem for me to obtain Carmelo. Hell, if the salaries matched, I would add Hinrich and Gordon or Thabo and any future assets. Deng and Gordon can't be traded until after the draft though. Lee and the 6th for Tyrus? I think that package is worth the Price of Thomas. It's just depth is not a problem on the Bulls. They need to trim the roster. With that move you add another body. The bulls should pursue 3 for 1 or 4 for 1 deals in an effort to obtain stars if not borderline superstars.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ May 22, 2008 -> 10:08 AM) Probably because of the system both teams play in. CP3 has more creativity to do what he wants, and David West is basically an excellent jump shooter playing at PF. Without CP3, he just would not be as good. He's so good at the pick and roll, Paul, that so many times he'll either lob it to Chandler, take a little floater, or kick it back out to West from 18 feet out. Williams makes Boozer a better player also. The thing is, Boozer and West can't create their own shots. Williams and Paul do it for them. A good PG makes everyone around you better. Do you think Atlanta wishes they took Paul or Williams, instead of Marvin Williams right now? On the other side of the token, do you think Orlando regrets taking Howard over Shawn Livingston? If Rose is a Bust and Beasley is a 10x all star, it throws all this cp3 and deron williams talk out the window. But, for the record, I would go with Rose. Just saying you can't really compare what other teams do. I'm sure the hornets did not expect Cp3 to play like Isiah at the same time the Hawks likely had higher expectations for Marvin Williams.

QUOTE (lostfan @ May 22, 2008 -> 09:30 AM) The likelihood of Brand joining the team is high? What does that mean? I hope it means it won't happen. He is injury riddled and his top #'s are not all that much better than what Gooden can do.

If Brand is going to cost a Boat Load I would rather keep Gooden and go after someone like Carmelo. Going after Carmelo over Brand is a f***ing no brainer to me.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 21, 2008 -> 08:55 PM) http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1643389 I'm tired of all the catch all threads.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 21, 2008 -> 07:06 PM) Take Derrick Rose. Many experts predict he will be better than Chris Paul. That's all I need to hear/read. I agree. With that said, I think Beasley will be a superstar.

QUOTE (daa84 @ May 21, 2008 -> 06:54 PM) this decision will be difficult It's a lot more fun than debating Hawes vs Noah.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2008 -> 06:48 PM) Like it or not, I'm not sure the Bulls can get fair value for any of their players after the debacle of a season they've had. But to my eyes, I don't see how they can avoid trying to make a 3 for 1 swap to try to go after someone and clear out their roster. Pre-#1 pick, I count 9 different guys who you could easily justify giving 30+ minutes a game to, based on contracts, draft status, and performance. Deng, Noc, Tyrus, Gooden, Noah, Hinrich, Hughes, Gordon, Sefalosha. And then throw in Aaron Gray who's a solid 10 minutes a game or so backup C already. And then there's still that Curry kid hanging around. IF the Bulls were drafting in the 9 slot, then they could maybe get around having to make a trade. You pick Kevin Love or DJ Augustin, and they can play 10-20 minutes a game and people won't be too pissed because they'd have to earn their way in to the rotation. But you don't play a #1 pick for 15 minutes a game unless you're just asking to be fired along with everyone you've ever worked with. There just aren't enough minutes if they don't make a move. One way to do it is to target a PG by clearing out space in the front court for Beasley. I'm not a big fan of this option because I'd love to see the Rose, Tyrus, Noah, Deng, Thabo/Gordon lineup. But probably more so, I'm not a fan of that option because it still leaves us with the 3 SG logjam and forces us to make another trade. I'd just rather trade the guys who are close or at their ceilings in terms of talent. I don't think trading Noch or Kirk will bite us in the ass. I am very worried to trade someone Like Tyrus or even Noah for that matter. It pains me to watch Chris Paul turn Tyson into a legit double-double , 25 year old, 7-footer. It is not like we would shedding any major salary with the young guys either. If the right deal comes along, sure. But stay the hell away from PJ Brown!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2008 -> 06:35 PM) An ideal and logical way for Beasley to make sense for the Bulls is if they could get another young PG by moving either Deng or Tyrus. Coming in to this draft, the one thing I wanted was a point guard, so I was hoping one of them would drop or they'd take Augustin. Now that we're in slightly better shape, we still need to come out of this with an upgrade at PG. I just don't think you would get fair value for Deng or Tyrus right now. I don't want the Bulls to sell low when they are technically in the drivers seat. I have more faith that Tyrus and/or Deng and Rose could perform at a higher lever together then what Kirk and Beasley could do as a tandom. I don't think Kirk is the PG that makes other people around him better. I'm not saying he is a bad player, he just can't do with Chandler what CP3 can( I think Rose is the type of player who can.) . I'm hoping the Bulls take the chance that Rose can improve the games of all our 4's and 5's.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 21, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) The other side of those numbers though is that Beasley's scoring and rebounding were going to be inflated on a team like K-State, because he was the man on that team. it's not like there was another key rebounding or scoring option. That's the thing too. What would MJ's #'s be on K-State opposed to UNC?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 21, 2008 -> 02:53 PM) Why? I mean, the team is playing entirely different baseball, as far as I can tell. What is your reasoning for thinking this? Don't you know? it's because both years we started off 24-20

Random thought.... Bet $10 with some friends on who will win rookie of the year. Let them take Rose and Beasley and you get the Field. Make them give you 20-1 odds or something crazy like that. Why? Most people forget that Greg Oden will also be a rookie.