RockRaines

First of all, shouldnt have been a penalty on Ruutu. Secondly, Burish is quickly becoming one of my fav hawks. He came out of nowhere and defended Tuomo from getting blindsides and then proceeded to land some nice shots. I love seeing a rook stick up for a line mate like that.

I'd still like Roberts on the cheap.

Guess what SI, it wasnt a rumor. I would like a retraction.

QUOTE(jasonxctf @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) other Sox sluggers who are roid free. We dont know that. Neither one of them came forward in the report to help out, and neither one accepted supplies from 2 major dealers. The good part is that Thome was in Cle while juicing was going on, so probably he didnt do it. Kong was on the dodgers where there was obviously SOME juicing taking place, but he didnt really turn into a good player until he was on the SOX.

Frank Already has 3 MVP's in my mind. Also if he was juicing, his prime would have lasted maybe 4-5 more years. Scary.

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 04:08 PM) I bet the Mitchell Report didn't catch all users either...pretty much just those who went through Radomski. Basically 2 suppliers out of many. There are even more foreign suppliers, think the Latin America drug trade, think about bringing them in through Canada. Several players have been quoted that they thought around 40-50 percent of all players were juicing.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) But honestly, ask yourself these questions: 1) Why were some players cheating? 2) What would motivate a player to do so? 3) If I could do something in the context of my profession (in terms of HGH), in which I would not immediately be caught (or caught at all), and could very likely result in a drastic pay raise, could result in my family and friends being financially taken care of for life, would I do so? 4) If others in my profession were "cheating," thereby making it more difficult (or even in some cases impossible) for me to be compensated according to my true value, would I be tempted to cheat as well? Would I cheat? This is far more complex than merely blaming the players for cheating. So much more was at stake- and that which was at stake was because of the fault of the managers, the GM's, the Owners, etc. I find it overly simplistic to simply cast the majority of the blame on the players. The entire baseball industry deserves to be blamed equally, IMO. Certainly players such as Frank Thomas and others deserve praise. But I don't believe that the players who used steroids or HGH should be the only ones cast in the spotlight created by the Mitchell Report. You would have fit in great at Enron, or maybe Arthur Anderson.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) I think it's interesting that nearly everyone who has posted thus far has implied a very negative reaction or stance towards the players who have used steroids. I've commented several times in this thread that the owners, upper-level execs, and managers were fully aware of exactly what was going on in most instances. And yet I've not commented positively or negatively regarding the players. And I won't, because I think this subject is enormously complex. Why are the players the one's taking such a huge hit here? Why not the rest of the baseball industry? Why so harsh to judge the players, and no one else? The owners didnt write personal checks for the roids and inject the substances into the player's butts.

I heard a rumor that Bartman was a competing steroid supplier and thus had his revenge on the cubs players who did not use his supply.

1 current player (other than Giambi) cooperated with Mitchell. Frank Thomas. He is a god

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) not sure how many use WHILE with the cubs. But a lot sure went through them. Sox have one for sure. In the report it was listed as several players injecting. Mitchell says 250 players have tested positive, jesus.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 01:38 PM) Information Provided by a Former Major League Player Matt Karchner pitched for two teams in Major League Baseball between 1995 and 2000, the Chicago Cubs and the Chicago White Sox. Members of my investigative staff contacted him as part of our effort to interview former major league players. Karchner said that during spring training in 1999, he observed two of his Chicago Cubs teammates inject themselves with steroids in an apartment that Karchner was sharing with them. Karchner declined to identify the players. He said that one of the players brought the steroids to the apartment but was afraid of needles and therefore asked the second player to administer the shot. The second player injected the first player with steroids in the buttocks and then injected himself. Later that season, Karchner was offered steroids by certain of his Cubs teammates. Karchner would not disclose the names of players who offered him steroids, but he said that the conversations he had with them involved the general cost of steroids and discussions of “stacking” to build lean muscle necessary for pitchers. Karchner did not report either of these incidents to anyone at the time. Cubs were a pharmacy.

QUOTE(Brian @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 01:36 PM) I'm gonna pretend that Wood and Prior are still on the list. They both did, we all know it. Oh sorry, we all suspect it. Sosa too.

Seriously. Gagne won a Cy, Clemens, how many MVPs and Cy's? Jesus This is just scratching the surface. I suspected alot of allegations in this report, but there is some VERY clear cut timeline evidence.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) not really. It sounds like a spondylolithesis. This is where one of the vertebrae is slipping froward on another causing stress, disc and nerve problems. This problem can be fixed through bone grafts and hardware to correct the slipping. It's like someone says "a fracture is better than a sprain" because the bone will heal stronger than the ligament. Same principle. It would be a similar surgery and rehab. Just the added 6-8 weeks of bone healing. The rehab for just a disc surgery would overlap this time frame anyway. He should have a good recovery, as good as chance as anyone with lumbar surgery. Yeah, a fractured vert and removing a disc is serious though. Hes worth a shot as a 1B/DH but anywhere else is an injury risk.

wow, how many Cy Youngs were won by Roids? Jesus. The scout correspondence about gagne is priceless

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 10:28 AM) Cats are evil enough, let alone glowing ones. Watch your soul. Yeah, creepy. They try to kill you in your sleep.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 12:00 PM) Anyone know what his back problem was or what type of surgery he had? I'm not familiar with what happened. Vertebrae. I believe its considered more serious than Crede's

QUOTE(SpringfieldFan @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:57 AM) You know, as I think about the potential fallout from all this, I wonder if the owners could legally revoke the contracts of some of their players on the grounds the players misreprented themselves and their value, especially given how it will drop in the wake of these events. Also, can we fans sue for ticket reimbursement because we were never getting the product we thought we were getting. Thoughts? SFF No, because there is no empirical evidence that any of these guys did roids. They have no tested positive, and some of them were only named because the Mitchell investigators asked interviewees who they "thought" was on steroids.

Hes a 1B. The 3B hopes are all but gone, his back is worse than Crede's frankly. He would be a good DH/1B for a team to take a flier on.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:54 PM) The fact that 25 percent of the offseason goal of a 90 loss, 4th place team with no farm system was getting Carlos Quentin tells you all you need to know about how stupid the guy running the show is. It drastically increased the production in LF and the team OBP capability.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 11:43 PM) There is no reason to panic until Foghorn Leghorn starts to tell you how speed doesn't slump and that Jerry Owens is a young Juan Pierre. For your amusement though, Santo was on WGN radio tonight and his insane ass is all over the Fukudome signing. Based on Youtube and what some fool told him, his arm is just as good if not better than Clemente. Thanks Santo, you typify their sillyness. The signs of "its going to happen" are going to be back. I almost hope they make it to the world series, just so we can have the Tigers, Indians, Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels put a major league beatdown on them. Did Santo also say that Fukudome's stats are eerily similar to those of a certain kaz Matsui over their japanese careers?

QUOTE(knightni @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:49 AM) Sports Illustrated has some apologizing to do to Soxtalk. Yes they do. And I would like to see an article written by Jas as the final word on the last page.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Dec 13, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) I dunno. Johnny Damon and Jason Varitek are pretty popular names that make me laugh. Those and Wood and Prior make my day.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 12, 2007 -> 08:01 PM) Hatton a fraud? Do you follow the sport? He's the 140 lb champ. The REAL champ, not some alphabet champ. He's an amazing jr welter, he just was in the wrong weight class and Floyd is too good for pretty much everyone Jr. Middle on down. A fight with Cotto would be fun to watch though He was a fraud given that he was positioned as having a great chance at beating Mayweather.