Princess Dye

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:05 AM) But the other 1b options could be signed for 1 year. Huge difference. If someone was bidding for Konerko multiyear, you can bet they were having side conversations with Lee for two years as well, since he's career #s wise an identical cheaper player. Based on our payroll restraints, it can be sort of said PK signed for 2.5 years.

Is there any hope at all for Viciedo playing RF?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:59 AM) I don't like his inconsistency at all. Not for a 1b hitting in the middle of your lineup. Basically all the 1B options could be called inconsistent as of late. LaRoche, Peña, Lee, Viciedo. For the vets in that group, each is coming off a down year. PK off a career year. PK doesnt complain about injury, so the hypothesis can be made that his awful 08 may have been bumps/bruises related more than he let on. When healthy his best years seem to trump those of the other guys (if you account for Lee beating up on NL pitching)

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:55 AM) Nightengale broke it. He must have a really good source or two in the org. Yeah, but Heyman's tweets just had this knowledgeable confidence all along that this thing was in the bag.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:53 AM) Eh, your argument to assets may be valid, but there is also a defined limit to how much you can pay your entire roster. This is why losing Deng would have been more valuable than keeping him at that contract level. Perhaps, but then you also have to convince free agents to come here. The Bulls were only able to pull that off in the year where there were like 15 great free agents. Horrible winters etc. The one we finally signed is a guy from Alaska. Ben Wallace was a big name signing but there was no competition for him due to age. For the Bulls I much prefer the approach of cornering guys into coming here via drafting them. Then keeping them if they're solid, looking to trade them perhaps for assets later (we technically got JR Smith for Tyson Chandler).

Side note: Man, Heyman is well connected.

in today's market a 5th place MVP candidate at a power position should make more than 12M per. The third year could hurt obviously but we have no way of knowing. It could also hurt to have Kerry Wood on a multiyear deal. In a whole different way.

The whole thing is we were never going to get top of the line relievers anyway. The Sox already openly stated that. Unless Quentin can net something, we likely are relying on our two lefties as being the two best pen guys.

Sadly, D-Lee might not be supported fervently by the merchandise buying public (i.e. people not here right now) PK brings in money for the Sox and maybe from Jerry's perspective a PK overpay is worth it in the sense that it enlarges the revenue pool more than a bargain Lee signing would.

I wonder how insistent the Sox are on PK taking 2 years. Maybe something creative can be worked out for the third.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 09:19 AM) Except Konerko is probably gonna end up with $4-6 million more (total), Deng got like $35 million more then he should have. Apples and oranges. In the NBA, it's a very important thing to keep your assets. If your draft picks are decent players, the onus is on you to keep them. You let both Deng and Gordon go, and your team is basically restarting completely. In baseball you can keep piling on signees based on what you choose to spend each year. Freely retool in MLB. Meanwhile, Deng had to be re-signed b/c the Bulls were already dealing with Hinrich/Nocioni/Ben Wallace contracts and what not. Deng was seen as both a key player and a potentially tradeable guy (injuries since diminished that, but I still wouldn't be surprised to see him the principle in a deal before his contract runs out) Also as far as all the anger over what Deng makes per year, I don't know what NBA fans expect to pay for a 6'9" player who gets you 18 and 7, highly regarded defensively and low turnover. 8M? 9M? No way.

In theory I would love to bring in Lee and some quality bullpen arms. But basically I think we all have a hunch the Sox are not going to pay market value for free agent relievers. They like to get bargains (Putz coming off injury) or---more often--- try to catch lightning in a bottle with some young cheap guys. So in this case I look at Konerko and Lee, same age, one having a far better year last year. I guess we go with the first guy, hope the later years of the salary aren't a killer.

Peña is younger and Lee would be more appreciative of multiyear deal at his age, willing to take the larger total than big annual.

Cowley: Earlier in the day, there were reports that the Sox had former Cubs hurler Kerry Wood on the radar for a bullpen spot. A source said Wood was "too expensive,'' however, but that was said with most in the organization feeling Konerko was all but a done deal and would return for a 13th season. Now, everyone with "free agent'' next to their name was back in play for not only the bullpen, but first base. That included Derrek Lee, which was reported on Monday. "Moving forward this may afford us the ability to do a couple of other things along with filling the position,'' Williams said. "So the assumption that we will end this or will ultimately be worse for it is incorrect. I think we still have a chance to put a real good player in the position and do some other things.'' Elsewhere in this, Wed afternoon is mentioned as a deadline.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 09:26 PM) Yes. ^ At this point JR wants PK back more than anybody else in the office. I've heard JR similarly took over the Bulls coaching search. Wanted Thibodeau more than anyone else in the FO. Got him. Thibodeau barely got a look during the time of Del Negro's hiring, when the situation was more firmly in Paxson's hands (and when the Lebron-less stakes were far lower for a coach selection).

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 09:18 PM) lol, I'm on a laptop and laying on my couch so I thought that said "I think Cowley wants more dicks" Read it that way too.

I think basically what we're all weighing is: Do we favor Lee simply b/c Paulie's camp is annoying us right now? Isn't PK still the guy more likely to put up a great offensive year (probably but debatable) Do any of us really know how much more a Lee contract helps us with the bullpen? JR will spend high for some players but not others....just b/c he allotted 13M for Paulie doesn't mean he allotted 13M for Lee plus good relievers.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:50 PM) I'm sorry but if it is that easy, don't you think Lee would be commanding nearly the same price on the open market as Konerko? Not every GM is an idiot. There is a reason he won't make nearly the money Konerko will and it isn't only the fact that Konerko had a huge year. PK is coming off a career year. MVP contention type year. The salary he earns could be something a little too high. Lee is coming off a down year. His salary will end up being a bargain. That's generally how it goes down. All of PK's past streaky years will be forgotten if there are two suitors serious enough (which there seem to be).

Lee basically had injuries, and these injuries caused him to basically have an Adam LaRoche type year. Then add in defense on top of that. To me, then, the choice is clear.

Extremely vague i know, but: Anyone else out there up for getting Cust cheaply. A Cust/Viciedo battle for 1B (can Cust play it?) and then acquire an outstanding reliever of some sort w/ the extra dough.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:08 PM) going "all in" doesnt mean you throw a prospect in there as a full time starter if you have doubt in his abilities......last time i knew he couldnt take a walk. But he's talking about Viciedo as a possibility for '12. So it would go: Lee 2 year contract. In year 1 he plays everyday and ideally gives you a typical D-Lee year. In year 2, you have the choice of 1) seeing if Lee can have another year like that at 36 2) giving Viciedo a shot 3) Seeing if there's some way to move Dunn to 1B if it improves overall offense dramatically (mitchell being a stud, etc) it creates options for you, doesn't take them away.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 08:07 PM) Question - if Konerko doesn't tae the Sox offer, why the focus on another 1B? Why not give the job to Viceido, and spend the money on other needs? I'm not advocating or expecting this to occur, but just wondering what people thought of going a different route should Konerko move on. Viciedo too big a risk for our OBP this coming year. And really there aren't many other needs. KW seems pretty intent on not paying for a bigtime reliever. If we get anyone notable it's probably some sort of trade.

Yeah that's another thing. If not for the existence of Viciedo, I probably wouldn't be as pro-Lee as I am.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 07:41 PM) Ok but Lee is 35, had off season thumb surgery and a bad back . LaRoche is 30/31 and has a relatively clean bill of health. Do you really want an old guy with a bad back coming off thumb surgery at 1st base ? It's asking for trouble. It's a valid debate of course. But we'd have to weigh which is more likely: Lee bouncing back from injury and having one of his normal years, or LaRoche having a year better than any he's ever had. Like many here, I'd want at minimum .350 OBP, 25+ HR from the 1B. LaRoche can do this but I'm just thinking about who's more likely to do it. LaRoche's relative youth doesn't do tons for me since I don't know that any guy we get is going to be getting a long term contract or anything. It'd be different if he was doing what he's doing in his 20s.

QUOTE (beckham15 @ Dec 7, 2010 -> 07:34 PM) personally i've seen derek lee play alot more being with him being on the cubs and if we can get anywhere near his MVP years with the cubs i think for the money we can sign him for would be a definate steal... Yeah thats another thing. LaRoche has not had a year like Lee's '09.