TaylorStSox
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Posts posted by TaylorStSox
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1 minute ago, WestEddy said:
And OJ was completely innocent of any wrongdoing, right?
"Due process" doesn't mean if a dozen parents said their kids were molested at a day care, you are still obligated to drop your kids off there because they were never found guilty in court.
I find it really weird and abhorrent when a dude digs in on this and chides others for not openly liking Mike Clevenger because of "due process". From testimony given under oath, I think the guy's a rage-addicted scumbag who uses his money to continually harass his victims, even when they're no longer partners.Nobody has to "like Mike Clevinger." I sure as hell don't like Mike Clevinger, and I certainly don't encourage anybody else to.
The OJ bit was predictable, and another logical fallacy.
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6 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:
The guy embarrassed the organization and turned spring training into a circus. Others have forgotten that but Reinsdorf sure hasn't. I would be absolutely shocked if this turd is on the team next year.
Jerry Reinsdorf - the arbiter of good will and common sense.
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5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:
You're using language that betrays a lack of compassion for the victim. You are demonstrably wrong to say there's a lack of evidence. There was a lot of evidence. Emotional and mental abuse are actual things. MLB may decide they're not "there" yet on suspending a star over emotional abuse and grabbing her arm in an aggressive manner. That's their own business.
Clevenger was also suing the victim for custody of their child, when he has no way to raise that child. The victim has described the situation he establishes with a new girl friend raising the child of his previous girlfriend, as she had done with the child of Clevenger's partner before her.
To mock abuse by saying that Clevenger should sue WSCR for airing claims that were given in testimony under oath is bizarre. Our " incredibly huge problem when it comes to victim blaming" is only exacerbated by bro-dudes pretending that "there's no evidence" when an abused woman has provided loads of evidence.Sorry, but I live in a world where due process is a thing.
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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Yes, you're correct. I believe the woman who shared photos of her bruises in an article online accusing Clevinger, who had no clear benefit in coming forward and who probably cost herself money in the process, is credible. I find it baffling that MLB would have failed to interview her promptly and find it completely improper that they should have had the incident reported to them while he was still on the Padres and still had to talk to her again in February. As this might have come down to a he-said, she-said situation in terms of her statements, taking those statements so far afterwards is one step above trying to cover it up since memory doesn't work that way, it gets worse over time, including for traumatic events. Whoever decided on a suspension or not would have had to know that it would be appealed to an independent arbiter, and these cases are complicated enough when everything is investigated correctly, and inconsistent statements made 6 months afterwards would be an easy thing to argue against.
So yes, I've made up my mind. You also have made up your mind that the accuser was lying and that those bruises came from something else or from someone else, despite knowing less than those assigned - you've indicated this by saying repeatedly that he was "cleared" without knowing that.
And to top it off, we then have things that should not have happened at all, him dragging the team into this. No one ever should have thought a guy publicly accused of domestic abuse should be playing the song "Gold Digger" as their walkout song, and they made him stop right away when they were called out on it. They should absolutely have said "everyone stay away from this person as one of our teammates had an issue with them" and yet somehow this wound up involving one of the other team rookies. These were things that should not have happened.
So I don't know the whole story, but I am absolutely allowed to believe the accuser from what was presented even if it didn't rise to the standard of a suspension, and I am absolutely allowed to wonder why on Earth they were still interviewing this person in February as that alone casts doubt on the quality of the MLB investigation.
And given all this, it's totally unsurprising that people were insisting he was one of the most likely guys to be traded at the deadline outside of his personal issues and in the end no one wanted him, and it seemed obvious that he would be claimed at the waiver wire deadline, if anyone wanted him.
And yes, if they bring him back, the only reason you won't hear about this all next year is that it will be the last straw for a lot of white sox fans.
No, I waited until the process played out before I jumped to any conclusions. Based on MLB's position, and the position of the authorities after this was investigated, it sure looks like a baseless accusation.
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2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:
Wait, what?!? I'm always amazed at how dudes dismiss a woman's word as insignificant or lies, even when given under oath. He was "cleared" in that his abuse and harassment didn't meet MLB's threshold for suspension. The intro song shows immaturity. Colas stalking her social media is weird, but considering the allegations, could certainly scare a person under legal siege from a multi-millionaire.
The claims of abuse were made under oath, and there's nothing to them that make them sound made up. A normal human being should have a problem with Clevenger's alleged actions, regardless of his ERA. I can't fathom how you see a person's disgust with that abuse and harassment to be "bizarre".
Too many guys are way too comfortable with how hard it is for a woman to be taken seriously about abuse.
It's a logical fallacy to use systemic/societal problems to an individual case that's been heavily investigated. Believing Clevinger was falsely accused, or was unfairly judged, after rigorous scrutinization doesn't mean one doesn't recognize that we have an incredibly huge problem when it comes to victim blaming in cases of domestic abuse.
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Just now, DFAthewave69420 said:
Yeah but 670 said he's a meanie. So pitchfork mob at Clevinger!
He really should sue them.
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4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
No, he went through the process and was not suspended, this is fundamentally different from being cleared or proven that he did not do it. We know this language well, it is used in legal matters all the time. We are absolutely allowed to decide that we believe a jury got things wrong and we are absolutely allowed to understand that he probably beat the s%*# out of a woman who later took photos of the bruises but MLB had a high enough standard that, when interviews were done like 6 months later (For whatever reason, and again this should have violated MLBs procedures as spelled out online), they decided they didn't have enough to suspend him.
Do you believe that no jury has ever acquitted person who actually committed a violent crime? If so, it's not a good look for you.
You're basically saying there is no measure in which you would believe Clevinger, which is so fundamentally ridiculous that I can't believe I'm addressing it. I believe MLB would gladly throw the book at Clevinger if they had any evidence whatsoever, especially after breaking Covid protocol. But hey, you made up your mind about the situation despite knowing less than those assigned to rule on the matter, so what's the point of continuing?
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15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Please tell me what evidence there was and what was proven. How was it proven that he did not abuse this woman? What were the causes of the bruises in the photos?
Sorry, I should have said lack of evidence. He went through the process and was cleared. You've basically made up your mind about something you ultimately have no idea about. Those in charge of the investigation know a hell of a lot more than you, and cleared him to play. It's not a good look for you.
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8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
Yes, each of those things was inappropriate and two of them directly brought the franchise into the matter.
So despite all evidence and findings proving otherwise, you're still ready to send the guy to the Gulag? Seems Fascist, tbh.
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2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
No. He was not "Cleared", he was not suspended - that means that whatever "investigation" they did, it didn't meet whatever standard they are using to require a suspension. It is worth noting that MLB's investigation process certainly appeared questionable, as the CBA requires it to be done quickly (literally it requires decisions within days) and yet MLB was still interviewing the accuser in February of last year, which on its own raises issues since memory of events definitely is harder the longer you wait. The decision on a suspension I think is suggested by a panel including 3 independent experts, 2 MLB representatives, and 2 players union representatives, we do not know if there was a vote or anything like that.
At the very least this year during the season, we had Clevinger coming out to the song "Gold-Digger", we had Colas seemingly stalking the accuser's instagram page for whatever reason, and we had the accuser suggesting that Clevinger was still calling and leaving her numerous messages. Thankfully this isn't the level of the stuff he was accused of last year, but none of it was good behavior and more than once we saw the team/organization dragged into his personal issues. No intelligent GM is going to look at this and be willing to stick their neck out for a guy behaving like this.
So, there was due process, he was cleared by MLB, and you're upset about his intro song, something his teammate may have done on social media, and further claims by the person he was cleared of abusing? That's really bizarre.
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1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:
Underestimated the opportunity cost impact on upsetting clubhouse chemistry...apparently it sticks more with some players than others.
For example, not even the White Sox would dare bring in Trevor Bauer next year.
And that's basically if he was "free" contract-wise.
You also can't just dismiss the per game price tag for Clevinger when someone like Civale on the Rays is pitching to a sub 3 ERA still.
Bauer was suspended by MLB for 194 games. How are they comparable?
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Clevinger was cleared by the league of all wrong-doing and hasn't had any issues while a White Sox, correct?
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Message boards are just dying. This board used to be fun even when we sucked bad because there were a lot of funny personalities.
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34 minutes ago, greg775 said:
You mean hung over or hammered? Why would he drink before taking the mound? Seems weird to drink before a game. That's being an alcoholic.
It was a relief appearance.
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1 minute ago, kwill said:
Do people actually know this for a fact? Like people see him out at night because thats crazy. Like how do you not just bench him the next day or two. Its so disrespectful.
I actually don't blame him for saying this. Back injuries are no joke so I know people will point to the contract year but a bad back can ruin your life.
And agreed. All of these dudes should have outlined programs to help them with deficiencies. Eloy should have 100% a program that tells him what drills he needs to do everyday to hit the ball up in the air.
Wait until you hear about Crede, Rowand, AJ, Buerhle and Anderson. Those guys were hammered drunk their entire White Sox career. Buerhle even pitched in the World Series hammered.
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15 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:
Not staying out until 2am the night before a game will be a start.
This is pretty much every baseball player though. Anybody who has worked in the bar industry around the West Loop and Lakeview can attest. Ball players are out every night of the week.
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I think his back is far more fucked than he's admitting.
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If you can't laugh at Jerry making fun of the absolute evil piece of human s%*# that is Mitch McConnell, your priorities are all fucked up.
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2 minutes ago, The Grinder said:
The knock against the Sox is unlike Wrigley where there are tons of places to go, after Sox games you go home
I understand that. The Sox aren't the Cubs though. When the majority of your games are at night, do you really need a bunch of bars in the neighborhood on a Wednesday night? The Sox have a marketing problem. Really, they have a winning problem.
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Just now, baseballgalaly said:
The huge thing with stadiums now is owning the surrounding businesses and stuff, the ballpark village.
Where in Chicago proper are you going to be able to do that? The Burbs are almost a necessity. The Cubs got lucky af with their location.
Both teams have been at their current location for over 100 years.
Why do they need a "ballpark village?"
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10 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:
I live about half way between Chicago and Rockford. I'm a hockey fan and I'd rather go see the Ice Hogs than the Wolves.
I wish I could afford Hawks games.
Anyway, from my perspective AH is way better than Chicago. It's like 30 minutes away from where I live rather than GRF which is an hour and a half on the way in, and an hour back.
I swore off going to Bears games after the last one I ever went to was zero degrees at a noon kickoff. It has been nearly 20 years.
They build a dome, I go again.
I also don't go to Sox games when it's over 85 degrees.
I'd rather go to a game in Early April than when it's 90+ degrees.
I don't know the economics behind it, but I would think competent ownership would prefer to play in a stadium with established infrastructure in proximity to the Loop, South Loop, McCormick Place, Pilsen, Chinatown, Bridgeport and NW Indiana would be preferable than a faceless ball mall in a suburb with no identity. I could be wrong though.
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2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:
They wouldn't have had that issue if the Giants didn't block them from moving to San Jose.
That was their best shot of staying in the Bay Area.
San Jose is an hour from Oakland. If the Sox move an hour from Chicago, that would be an absolute shame. The White Sox have been a part of the South Side of Chicago for 115 years. It's part of the franchise identity.
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2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:
The Bay Area is huge when you include San Francisco and San Jose.
I'm sure not everyone in the Bay Area who is an A's fan lives in Oakland.
A lot of the A's issues have been with the city specifically, and it's inability to fund and support an MLB team. Chicago doesn't have that issue.
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2 minutes ago, baseballgalaly said:
Ok then.
Maybe you and i have a different definition of what bad traffic is then.
It's far, far easier to navigate around GRF than the UC or Wrigley on game day. There are more roads, e-ways and train lines. There are just way more choices. Red Line, Green Line and Dan Ryan expansions were all built with the stadium in mind.
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Merkin teases possibility of a Clevinger reunion in 2024, Kopech in rotation next year as well
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
Just calling out bigotry where I see it.