Balta1701
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Posts posted by Balta1701
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2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
How many times were Kenny and Hahn wrong before they were fired? JR has made countless dumb decisions but he isn’t going to fire himself. If Grifol is still the Sox manager, I’m sure Getz has many years to prove himself, or his failure.
There's my problem. They are absolutely going all in on "we can develop all these guys into way more than they're worth right now". If 2 years from now they were wrong, this team looks like the 2020 Royals, 4th place, not all that good, and future 5th place finished coming, but likely with the same guys leading the way.
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4 minutes ago, Jake said:
Bold statement I know, but chances are the Sox are projecting some of the players involved differently than we are.
If they're wrong do they get fired?
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2 minutes ago, mac9001 said:
While the return doesn't blow me away I think people are vastly underrating Thorpe. The kid has some elite numbers that tend to transfer over to the big leagues. Zavala as a 19 year old put up a .420 OBP in low A ball and played CF.
Thorpe probably slides in as our #2 and Zavala might be our #4 best prospect and probably no lower than #5.
Note: I do believe Schultz will probably be out best pitching prospect by end of year, but right now you have to put Thorpe slightly ahead of him on production alone.
This is more an expression of their inability to find the kind of elite guys they gathered up during the last rebuild than it is a strong supporting statement for these guys.
Perhaps this works better, but this statement illustrates how they are trying to rebuild based on depth alone. It's at least different from Hahn, but not obviously better?
And elite numbers without elite velocity is a harder thing to say will translate. Sometimes it's Buehrle, often it isn't.
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2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
I think $200 to $500 million dollar deals has changed the game. Teams don’t want to give up their top prospects if they’re are top 50 prospects in the MLB. They know they can’t afford to buy these potentially top players in free agency so they are more willing to give up a larger quantity package of their slightly lower rated prospects.
My guess based on last year was that teams would be more willing to give up those prospects if they were sitting in a playoff spot in July and Cease was sitting there with a 2.85 ERA.
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1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:
Sure but what did they have after the top guys? Just seemed like a barren wasteland. I’m hoping that in addition to 10-12 top prospects getz is able to build additional depth beyond that. And, hopefully, he will also be more effective in free agency when it’s time to spend serious money.
Hell, from that point they added 2 more top 5 picks and a top 15 pick before their first playoff appearance.
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2 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:
It might sound like me moving the goalposts, but looking at the return I’m convinced Getz was told to take the best pitching package he could get. Two near top 100 pitchers might be the best pitching offer made. I’m holding to that caveat because I still think Cease should have brought back at least one top 50 positional prospect.
I would buy this also, which would tell you a lot about who the actual GM is right?
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5 minutes ago, fathom said:
Law said he won’t end up in CF
If he's not a CF defensively then this is a much weaker deal because a dozen minor league HR but a decent A-ball OBP is a Benintendi-type corner outfielder, unless he grows into more power with age?
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12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:
Huh? Odd question. I think having 10-12 top prospects for this next rebuild is a must. Last rebuild was loaded at the top but had very little depth and we saw how that played out. This group has a chance to be much deeper even if it’s not as “strong” at the top.
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All right, harder one for I think everyone -
When the Baltimore deal went down, I said that the return wasn't so big that you'd say "This destroys the White Sox if they turned it down and then Cease got hurt." I would stand by that, no reason to rush to that deal.
If the White Sox turned this down and Cease got hurt, it feels like this is a minor bit of damage but not a lot. It feels to me like this isn't such a heavy return that you'd think it would dramatically change the White Sox's rebuild schedule if they held onto Cease and he got hurt. Some additional depth, but question marks on everyone. That, to me, seems like a reasonable standard for doing a deal now - it would have to return so much that it's not worth waiting to the deadline.
Anyone disagree? Was this a deal we couldn't afford to turn down? If so, care to explain? Happy to listen.
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Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:
Not interested in trading Robert? I don’t see much of a choice here. It’s not like they’ll extend him after his contract concludes unless he has a TA style precipitous falloff.
I find it interesting that they brought back a young CF in this deal.
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3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Iriarte with lowest floor and highest ceiling ... lots sleeping on him.
It looks like he was already pitching out of the bullpen in the minors last year, so I think it's safe calling him a reliever for now.
There's promise here, if any of these guys break out then this looks like a great deal, but this is definitely not what people were demanding a month or two ago.
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5 minutes ago, joejoesox said:
i dont see why Thorpe isn't mlb ready, he has everything in his arsenal to succeed at the major league level now. he isn't going to get better command, or throw any harder, call the kid up
Looks like he has a total of 30 AA innings? Let him throw at least a half season against AA level competition first.
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So I guess congrats that he moved at all?
One solid prospect, one guy outside the top 100 with promise, and a likely reliever is probably 1 more player than I thought he was worth, so I guess y’all can brag on that, but this is a far cry from what he was supposed to be worth.
Is Zavala Robert’s replacement?
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19 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:
I presume they really wanted good vet catcher(s) around the young pitchers but also around the Sox young catching prospects. They also probably knew Stassi and Maldonado were on their last legs but had the attributes they wanted so they doubled down in that direction. Hopefully all of young Sox catching prospects are spending a lot of time with them around the defensive and mental aspects of the game and at same time - I hope our various pitchers benefit from the experience they bring.
Probably overselling all of the above - but given how bad the stench from the outside was (and presumably even worse internally) - I can live with it, but I do agree with you - why everyone wrote off Lee vs. hey give him another few hundred AB's and lets see didn't make sense. I would imagine Lee will still get plenty of AB's (it isn't like it is that hard to replace the 2 catchers they have).
The obvious problem with wanting to bring in Maldonado to be around the young catching prospects is...Lee, the young catching prospect still in the big league camp, was with the Astros last year, as was Maldonado.
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21 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:
I'm live-tweeting a conference right now and "Holy Overpay" just showed up trending.
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Ridley to the Titans.
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3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
Things are going to happen soon whether you like it or not unfortunately.
Soon as in "the 2024 season?" Sure.
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1 minute ago, SoCalChiSox said:
I dont think there's any dispute that there's a market. The question is, is the market in the low 40m SV range, or does the pitching premium and/or Cole situation push it into the 50s.
We saw about a 10% premium with the Burnes situation (33m value...they paid 36m). Similar premium would make this trade be around 46m...perhaps a bit more if it's NYY.
All along I've said that Getz is going to want that higher value price and teams aren't going to pay that price until they see Cease in April. That continues to be the obvious version of how this has gone, no matter how many times people try to push different things through the media.
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1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:
Cool. You are probably wasting your time in this thread then.
And yet people tagged me in this thread last night because they needed to brag about the clear and unambiguous fact that things were going to happen.
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2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
Yet it wasn't just the Yankees that fell out of the rumor tree. That sure doesn't seem like "waiting" to me.
There is a clear benefit to the White Sox in trying to sell the Yankees on the idea that other teams are interested and putting in new bids, to encourage the Yankees to raise an offer they've been unwilling to improve.
We have been watching this the whole offseason, it's a vicious combination of people with similar motivations and no accountability. The White Sox want to make it sound like there is interest in him, insiders know there are no consequences if they're wrong and they get lots of clicks when they can talk about a trade market involving the Yankees, the White Sox know there are no consequences if they exaggerate a little bit in a way that might help them because the insider will push the same story again 2 months later.
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3 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:
I recall him hitting a homer the other day when he was DHing. The games I've seen him play he's been pretty brutal on both sides of the plate. Maybe the overall numbers say he's been better, IDK.
He has 2 home runs so he has an .856 OPS in recorded spring games.
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20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:
At the end of the day I think Getz has had his "if you want him today, this is my price" price out there for a while. If we are getting this going again, I think teams are moving into Getz's "today" neighborhood enough that it is worth listening too. This could well have been a case where guys were trying to see if he would fold early, or if he would hold up.
The Yankees probably put in calls to both Boras and the White Sox and anyone else who might be selling a pitcher as Due Diligence - seeing if any of them have dropped their price is a reasonable move.
The message then gets sent out, probably by Getz - "We've re-engaged with the Yankees" to the insiders, even though if nothing is happening it's probably true that they talked. For the White Sox, they again may put a little pressure on other teams to try to drive the market.
In reality, the other teams are wanting to see where they are during the season and where Cease is during the season, and the Yankees aren't yet desperate enough to try to make an all-in move.
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Just now, hi8is said:
Bet this drags on another two weeks 😆
But the eyeball emoji!!
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26 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:
Right. Me using most probably isn't totally accurate. I probably should have said come up through prep ranks as SS. Regardless, you can't have too many SS prospects even if you have a star SS in the bigs already. Guys that can play SS usually don't have issues finding another position if the bat plays.
If you have an elite SS prospect at AAA, he's probably also top 25 in baseball, maybe better. That's tradeable for elite pitching or all star players (Robert caliber) if you do have a guy fully blocked.
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Cease To Padres per Passan
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
I don't have access to the pay stuff but found this from a year ago.