Balta1701

What is particularly troublesome is that they need bullpen help and we're watching relievers come off the board without them seemingly sniffing around any of them. Failing to get adequate relief pitching help would be another way to punt on this season and at least in the Fangraphs world, 6 of the top 7 options are already off the board. This is a position where they should be getting something done right now - when you wait until January the risk goes up and you find a Kelvin Herrera as the guy you nab.

I agree but I also think he's the most likely to be hurt for large portions of his next contract and a moderately high risk to be permanently lost. But then, if we only have 1 or 2 chances total before the young guys get so expensive the white sox hit their payroll ceiling, a high risk move is better than nothing.

If we're punting on 2020, and anything at all goes wrong - after 2021 both of those guys are in the same position as Lindor right now. Getting expensive and having their trade value drop precipitously if they aren't dealt.

After watching them this offseason, I cannot fathom them putting anything near the kind of offers DeGrom and Arenado got on the table to extend those 2.

And we'll get more for Moncada and Giolito too.

I'm ok with that. If they miss in 2021 they'll have to replace Mazara and Rodon who are pretty much scrubs. But they have to get across some goalpost this season, and "Yay we're in 3rd place but at least we're at .500" is not an accomplishment, not when players start getting far more expensive 1 year later. We're in a thread about a move towards that level.

Great. Win the Wild Card this year and you have some leeway. I am ok with that response as long as everyone agrees that missing the playoffs this season is totally unacceptable. That should be the absolute standard.

AFter what the FA market did this year, I think you have to start talking about $250 million if you want to extend Moncada early and $200 million if you want to extend Giolito early.

Yes. If we don't will you stop apologizing for these losers?

And if and when those guys won't sign extensions (narrator; they shouldn't), then after 2021 they're at the same point Lindor is now. Do we trade them before all their value goes away?

Jeff Luhnow won the wild card in his 4th season. Theo Epstein won the wild card in year 4 and the world series in year 5. That we can't even hold ourselves to those standards with the gigantic fortunate head start we had, that those other teams didn't have, is utterly pathetic.

We got a gigantic head start and are finishing behind the astros and cubs. Maybe, just maybe, the front office is pretty crappy at running and should do something else.

Because we had way more at the starting point than they did. A runner in a sprint race is given a head start equal to half the race. That runner finishes well behind the other racers. "Well all races aren't linear."

Did the Astros have as many players come in from trades as we did? No. So great, we had more delays, but we had far more at the starting point thanks to those trades. But alas, we were so bad with our development that those trades didn't matter. And also on subject; Brady Aiken, Mark Appel.

Now there's a solid version of mediocrity. "I'm not as good as other franchises and hot d*mn I am thrilled about it!!!".

Yeah, that year of being pushed back was 2019. In year 4 of rebuilds, teams like the Cubs and Astros have won the wild card - we were supposed to be able to beat that pace, because of all the extra talent we acquired. If we're punting on 2020, then we're now behind schedule. Do we have a plan for what happens if a handful more things go wrong in 2020? Because making no impact moves, kicking the can down the road, and then not having everything go perfectly - starts setting up for a permanent rebuilding.

You can start working on your front office defense now. "Keuchel is fine and we weren't going to be competitive in 2020 so there's no reason to spend more than that, we'll be able to spend big next offseason" probably works.

And yet, they have missed on the impact pitching.

Baseball's payrolls have been going up at more than 5% a year for over 20 years....but for the last 3 years they've stagnated. That means there is a 20% jump in payrolls plausible based on continued revenue growth and that bump was delayed by teams rebuilding.

We claimed to be next best again?

While he was the best college bat, he would not have the best trade value out of the guys available there because of his positional inflexibility. Teams that have a 1b now won’t trade for him, you have to swap him for someone else’s prospect. if we are thinking of trading him, then the people who said we should default to the shortstop in the draft were right.

Then we have nothing that will bring back the handful of mid rotation starters out there.

He was #7 on the futuresox list.

If you wanted to do the classic white sox drafting for trade value, Abrams would have been a better choice. Vaughn fit us because we had that position available. Everyone would trade for a shortstop.

The shine hasn't come off Vaughn like it had with Rutherford, but Vaughn's value is depressed because he's limited in positions. He'd be a fit for the Mets in a Syndergaard trade, but the Mets have Alonso at 1b so that only works as a 3-way deal, and those are rare enough it's barely worth thinking about. Any team that thinks they can fill 1b fairy cheaply will not give up a premium talent for that position.