Mercy!

I voted for Jon.

Wow! This joint is jumping! It was kinda lonely here last night. Just me and Rex knockin’ back a few. I return now and, uh, I’m almost speechless. Who knew there were so many kindred spirits?

With a hand crank supplying power, think of the possibilities this device would have for educating kids in developing countries. Story and picture of a prototype at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5111501546.html

I was wrong. Thanks for setting the record straight. I missed that entirely. Next time I search for words in a thread, I’d better search for variants. Though I’ll understand if no one agrees with me, I personally draw a distinction between talking about the “level of ignorance” of someone’s statements in an article, and using the word “ignorant” to describe fellow posters or their statements in a thread. I try to avoid the latter usage - these days on a par with the word, “stupid” - since it is usually not understood to ever mean “uninformed,” hence tends to be inflammatory. I also realized that instead of mentioning 440,000 annual smoking-related deaths in my tangent about real life risks, I might have made a more cogent link to the topic by giving the number of deaths and catastrophic injuries sustained by high school, college and pro athletes every single year. But I’m guessing everyone’s tired of this by now. For sure, it wouldn’t incite those everyday passions like the mention of AIDS and HIV.

This is a certified ghey-only thread. Please, no lame wannabes or other trouble makers comin’ around talkin’ smack. You say you didn’t know Ms Julie is a lesbian and gay icon? Then clearly you’ve breached the ghey-only perimeter fence on false pretenses. But speaking from the distaff side, I can swear she is. And it’s a little bit more than a Bea Arthur kind of thing, if you catch my drift, girlfriends. So my hat’s off to you, Mr. Mayor. That’s all. There’s nothing kinky here. It’s all as pure and sweet as Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/c...ll=chi-news-hed

Thanks for the thoughtful response. First, could we please stop passing that “ignorant” along? If you’ll follow the trail of that word’s usage in this thread – I believe you’ll find that you and Steff are the only ones who have used it. I most definitely have not called anyone ignorant. These studies were 10-15 years old. Wouldn’t you think that with all the school athletic programs over the years, and all the many possibilities of HIV transmission, that if what you are speculating were true, that this would be well-documented by now? This is one of those cases where you really need to back up your speculation with a reference. I really didn’t think that posting that story would produce some of the remarks that have resulted. But I will admit my personal bias. I’m so up to here with our culture’s hyping of barely existent threats, compared to the real dangers in our lives. You know what I mean Number of deaths due to automobile accidents every year in the USA – 43,000+ Number of smoking related deaths every year in the USA - ~440,000 Number of individuals proven to have even caught HIV through contact sports ever– ZERO. Anyway, thanks again for the neutral response. And now, I'm late for my health club visit - honestly. And I've got to say, I've had some concerns about the possiblities of some of the bugs I could catch in that environment. But none of them rise to the threat of what we've been discussing. And, boy, I sure have become addicted to that whirlpool at the end of the session.

On the other hand, Tex Edit: I meant, "with all due respect, Tex"

I’ve got to believe that everyone here has a fundamental grasp on how HIV is transmitted; that you can’t get it from toilet seats or showers, that sort of thing. The CDC link I gave above covers the basics. Regarding the fear of blood-borne transmission during contact sports, I found references to a few articles from the 1990’s. I imagine the procedures that everyone implemented around that time have dealt with this issue appropriately, even though public misconceptions admittedly still abound. If anyone knows something which contradicts the findings that HIV is exceeding difficult to transmit except by intimate contact, needle sharing and transfusions of infected blood products - could you post a reference, please? My cursory search reminded me that we have totally ignored a true nasty in this discussion – Hepatitis. That’s worthy of some serious concern. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/...full/104/6/1400 AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS: Human Immunodeficiency Virus and Other Blood-borne Viral Pathogens in the Athletic Setting http://annals.org/cgi/content/full/122/4/283 Transmission of Blood-Borne Pathogens during Sports Risk and Prevention http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/122/4/271 Bleeding Injuries in Professional Football: Estimating the Risk for HIV Transmission http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract HIV/AIDS policies and sports: the National Football League.

Being cautious, even “overly cautious” as you put it, is a fine thing as far as I’m concerned. It’s the first step toward educating yourself about the REAL risk of anything, and then protecting yourself. But now you’ve jumped from YOUR statement (not mine!) about the bathroom and introduced a straw man in this particular discussion with your blood transfusion statement - and then thrown “ignorant” into the mix for good measure. I know you understand the fallacy in that thinking. I’m just not sure why anyone would try to make such a weird connection. Unless that was in jest, also. Anyway, if you wish to hold onto your opinion (even if it is not supported by the facts) that’s okay, too, isn’t it? But in regards to sports (and not just professional football), society needs to have policies in place to deal with the thousands of HIV+ people who are participating right now. I see now instead of offering to convince you, I should have just asked you to provide references for any proof that HIV can be transmitted via toilet seats, urinals, or showers. Please. And puhleese.

I’m not sure what it says that well over two decades into a global AIDS epidemic a multi-millionaire would share a needle while doing drugs, or taking vitamin shots, or whatever he was doing. But I would posit that your Raffy example has little to do with the development of a sane public health policy for athletic sports. It’s always pretty easy to make claims about the tone of a post or the attitude of a poster who may think differently from ourselves when we disagree. Stick to the subject, Steff, and we’ll be fine. What would one need to do to convince you that the possibility of HIV transmission is NOT a "Legit concern in the bathroom area." as you stated? If the folks in the bathroom weren’t doing various different kinds of “sharing” amongst themselves, of course.

Because people may be uninformed does not make them stupid, in my book anyway. But these days solid information is only a couple of clicks away for those with questions. Unless these men plan to share needles or have unprotected sex with each other, they should be worrying more about those awful career-ending injuries they face every time they play. As someone else has alluded to, illnesses caused by air-borne vectors – TB or killer influenza strains, for instance – are the sort of threat one would be concerned about in a locker room environment. If anyone here is really concerned about casual contact, such as in a bathroom area, causing HIV transmission, they can educate themselves at any number of authoritative online sources. Like I said originally, this is the sort of talk you heard 15 years ago. Considering the number of public bathrooms and health club showers we’ve all used over the years, we should be able to put that fear to rest just from personal experiences. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm

That’s just not right, is it? But you need to do more than just preach to the choir here if you want to bring about meaningful change. I suggest you do like Sister Rossetta did when Pat Boone crossed over to the Dark Side. Get involved! Put up a web site to get the Word out. Pat Boone is an Instrument of the Devil

Hey, that site's cool. Thanks. I just never go to those day-after-Thanksgiving mob scenes. But online bargains - now that's all good!

Ancient History. :sleep Everybody knows that Billy Joe already jumped off the Tallahatchie Bridge. As far as Billie Joe and his band mates being the same as mass murderers: that’s just silly. (Actually, I thought he was talking about the Piano Man, too)

I might as well not comment about the sexual assault part since it’s only an accusation at this point. But I’m surprised that the level of ignorance is still so high about how HIV is contracted. The remarks by Tony Miles sound like something you might have heard 15 years ago.

I'm sure everyone involved is praying it wasn’t a snapper.

No, no, really. I just KNEW Tex was gonna come around talkin' smack and trying to cause trouble. He's just a push-over for that lesbian stuff.

First, I demand that Tex be kicked out of this thread and his posts be removed. I knew he would come around here and try and start s***. Second, I was going to post that other story second.

I, too, am really down on our two party system. But third parties are too rare on the national stage to put any effort into. I often wish that we had a parliamentary system, with true proportional representation requiring coalitions to form and work together around shared issues. I think minorities of all stripes can feel that they have more of a stake in society that way. And I darn well don’t like our winner take all electoral college, despite understanding why it was originally conceived. You sure don’t see us holding it up as a neat way to decide national elections in those “emerging democracies” do you?

In keeping with a late-breaking trend for uniformity of response, this thread is for non-heterosexuals only. It is not for heterosexuals to come in and heckle and POLITICIZE this discussion.

The fundamentalists know well that you have to have an enemy. After the demise of global communism and the cold war, they searched around for some replacements to rally the troops. Many seized on feminism, but as more women became part of the workaday world, their focus shifted to abortion. In the same vein, the gay rights movement became a convenient target, but as more people became willing to identify themselves to their families and friends, the focus shifted to the gay marriage issue. The fundies are about fear, hatred, being against something, and believing their morality is the only valid way to live one’s life. And in the ‘60’s and 70’s they started working at the grass roots, an organizing principal the Democrats seem unable to grasp unless an election is imminent. And they hijacked the Republican party. I think enough people are disgusted with the present state of our country that they would vote in a minute for a true centrist candidate. These are the kind of people who find late term abortion personally repellant, but don’t consider every egg and sperm sacred, or every blastocyst to be a human being with rights trumping those of the already-born. They are the people who may still have a problem with the “ick” factor when they think of homosexuals (of course, we’re talking icky male stuff here; lesbians have always been okay!), but don’t think that the government has the right to be in people’s bedrooms. Technology has so changed the availability of information, that I agree with jasonxctf, put forth quality candidates and you’re half-way there.

Have fun getting to know Mr. Milton tonight.

The politicization of health care options for women? I’m shocked! One interesting story that I haven’t tried to follow up on, but I’d love to have the real low down scoop – why did the FDA head bail with no explanation just 2 months after his confirmation? Oh well, I guess there’s another conservative veterinarian just waiting to be tapped by Bush for the job.

Oh, okay, if you insist.

There are many valid criticisms of Mother Teresa and her work, I think. But I agree that vulgar name calling doesn’t usually advance any understanding of issues.