RX Bandits

I like how Ozzie said "i'm always positive" and then he bashes Anderson and McCarthy. In no way am I a McCarthy supporter, in fact I liked the trade, but I think these comments were not necessary.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:59 PM) McCarthy has not started for an entire season for the Sox. Assuming that the tolls of the 162 game season as a starter wouldn't possibly hurt him (a DL stint), who's to say that he'd suddenly turn all that untapped potential you see into his supposed ace material? You question that the other starters are going to be able to carry the ball (despite having proven over entire seasons that they can) yet with no sample size from which you can cite, you demand for us to take the leap in over a chasm of logic to believe that just imputting McCarthy into the rotation is automatically going to mean that he'll have it all put together. And this is just as feasible as the situations you thought up -- what if McCarthy puts up an ERA the wrong side of 5 for the entire season? He got traded while he still had an upside and we got a lot for him. Although I really thought the Cardinals would have bitten at the McCarthy for Pujols straight up deal. you said everything i did not want to type. my god face it people, you cant know the winner of this trade until years after.

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:57 PM) Ok, how about Scott Eyre, Chad Bradford, Bobby Howry, Roberto Hernandez? By the way, I agree with you for the mostpart. We really haven't traded away anyone that turned into something special. However, we have had our fair share of trades that didn't go all that great. roberto hernandez was never as dominanent after he left the white sox. bradford, eyre, howry, now thats scraping the barrel. ill give them to you, but i think you understand the point im trying to make.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:55 PM) Doesn't make up the fact that we get hosed in this deal, you can get more for McCarthy then this. you cant prove that until 3 years down the line. hell i'll give you my AIM sn which is ooorxbanditsooo and you can IM me in 3 years if im wrong. hell i'll even give you my phone number

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:51 PM) Sounds to me like you jumped on the bandwagon in 2005. If we had a 4th starter in 01-04, we make the playoffs at least a few times. woh, lets not go there. 01-04 the pitching was just not as good. hell we didn't have an "outstanding" 5th starter by any stretch of the imagination, how is this any different? QUOTE(philadelphia sox fan @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:51 PM) Because Floyd is hopeless. and freddy is a fat pitcher who cant keep his weight down who lost a ton of velocity on his fastball.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:48 PM) Right, cause I'm one of the biggest Aaron Rowand fans around and I was so pissed when we traded him. People are allowed to be mad about a trade, I personally have been high on Brandon for a long time and think he's going to be a special pitcher, so I don't need to hear that I'm too attached to a player. I'm attached to Brandon cause I think he's going to be a very good pitcher. I never said people cant have the opinion that I don't, however, my ARow point is that ARow really wasn't that good, he is just a guy. Hell I think hes a great guy, I would buy him a beer if I ever saw him at a bar. But my point is that KW does not get attched to players that end up screwing him over. I think that is a quality characteristic of a GM. I guess what I am trying to say is that Brandon has a great spring training, and last year he looked real bad out of the bullpen for a while.

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) Totally different situation. Your banking on a garbage pitcher to be in the top of your rotation to a middle reliever in a non high profile trade in Thornton. you can use the same logic with the outcome of that deal though. Remember when borchard was an untouchable?! s*** you could have gotten a ton for him when he was a hot prospect. Moreover, even after trading a crappy Borcahrd Thornton stepped right in and the sox "fixed" him. whats not to say they can't do the same for the players they have recieved in the last 2 big trades?

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:43 PM) It's a step back because you know Count is good for a DL stint or 2. Is MB going to rebound? Will Vaz every find his stuff back from his Montreal days? Will Garland even be on this team? Too many questions marks when you had a guy ready to step into the rotation with not much of a drop off. but how do you know BMac can start?!?! I dont think he has enough different pitches to be a solid every 5th day starter. your argument is flawed because I can reverse all of those arguments into positives. QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:46 PM) Keith Foulke was pretty alright for a few seasons there that is the only name that comes to mind, but even when boston was on top, foulke was still kinda bad. I'll give you half credit for it, but Foulke was never very dominant for a long period of time after leaving

QUOTE(Wanne @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) I'd like to go back and see how many people said this about Thornton too. I guess I'm one of the few that's not upset with this trade at all...because personally...just wasn't sold on McCarthy being a consistant pitcher at this level. Obviously KW isn't just going to toss a couple starters away for nothing...give it a chance. Arms added: Sisco, Aardsma, Gio, Danks, Masset, Floyd (not a bad collection of young talent) Arms lost: Freddy, Cotts, McCarthy Arms to be counted on: MB: contract year...will come back strong IMO Garland: most consistant pitcher the past two seasons Count: Very consistant past few years Javy: Pitched very well at the end of last year Come off the ledge people...we're in good shape next year....and KW's seeing to it that we'll be well off for the future as well. He's not s***cannin' '07. good to see another thinking white sox fan. I am so damn tired of people on this board falling in love with players. I call it Aaron Roawand disease. If people are worried about the 5th starter you need to find another hobby or something

QUOTE(beautox @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) With Gio and Danks, the sox have there future/s LHP, Wainwright and Reyes interest me. Reyes much like McCarthy has been constantly jerked around that organization, i would love to see him and his flat billed cap on the south side. we already have an ugly and fat pitcher. we dont need another one haha

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) Almost a step back??? It is definitely and obviously a step back for 2007. I really didn't think KW would give up this much and hurt our 2007 penant chances this much. IT'S A 5TH STARTER!!!!!! Really, it's not like BMac was projected to be a #1 this year or anything. Moreover, I dont believe he would have ever been a #1 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:40 PM) I'd imagine the Sox either to be on the verge of a major trade or that they've got some information about McCarthy that makes dealing him NOW desirable. exactly. I lean more towards the "something that the fans dont know" sort of thinking.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) Yet you want to trust the system that has not produced any good pitchers to develop good pitchers? your point helps me, because if our system has not produced anybody good, then that trend should continue on with mccarthy, and if that is the case, 3 pitchers > 1 pitcher

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:34 PM) Pitching prospect or pitchers in genereal? Beacuse in your previous post you mentioned names such as Alvarez, Fernandez, Wells who really weren't prospects when they were traded. well they were let go and people complained about that. I guess my point is that this franchise HAS had some very good talent "leave" and do nothing afterwords. so i guess i mean pitchers in general

QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) If not then KW just started that trend now... you dont know that! people said the same thing when they let alex fernandez, Wilson Alverez, and kip wells go, and none of those pitchers had fine careers after the white sox.

QUOTE(beautox @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) I hope to see Mark moved maybe to St. Louis for Reyes/Wainwright and Anderson/Rasmus or possibly to Toronto for Rios and a prospect. I love the over reaction on the board. Have some faith. please, i want NOTHING from st.louis. especially reyes. but I agree, I'm sick of the overreaction

im still waiting for someone to name a pitching prospect that the white sox traded and then that prospect became good. has not happened in the last 20 years at least, and therefore, I have every reason to believe the white sox are right again.

QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:24 PM) Reading this thread is really reminding me of some previous threads regarding trades. And on that note, how goes Cooperstown's efforts to get Olivo's bust bronzed for his impending HOF ceremony? I swear -- for many people on this board -- if KW walked on water, you'd complain about him not swimming. We've still got a few months before spring training, let alone the start of the season. A trade or some FA work may still be possible. It's also amazing that McCarthy who has shown flashes of being very good but hasn't been able to put it together is automatically, again in many peoples' responses here, going to overtake Johan Santana in 2007 for the AL Cy Young. Take off the homer blinders and look at this pragmatically please. Just like the Garcia trade to Philly. People thought we didn't get enough for him. Yet everybody here was joking about how bad Garcia was all last year (my favorite being Kalapse's Flamethrower Freddy with the 86 mph speed gun saying "Intimidation had a New Name") I'm personally amazed that we got something more than a sack of scuffed balls for him. Never mind. Forget I said anything. Continue with the complaints that the sky is falling and the end of the world is at hand. Never mind that all the prospect trading over the past seasons might just mean that we may need to restock a little bit. I'm not defending KW, I'm just pleading for a little reason here rather than emotional "OMG!!!11! WE'RE GONNA BE WORSE THAN DA ROYELS THIS YEAR!" knee-jerk responses. amen. rational thinking sox fans.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 23, 2006 -> 03:21 PM) There are so many people on here who believe Kenny Williams can do no wrong. Its embarrassing. He follows up the Sisco move which was terrific with this awful deal. had it been one of our veterans it makes a ton of sense but not B-Mac. Just awful go on and name a time KW...hell i'll even say the franchise has never been wrong about letting pitching go in the last 15 years. People were pissed when fernandez, alverez, kip wells, etc etc when those guys were traded, and really they didnt do ANYTHING. Trades like this cannot be determinded who "won and lost" right now.

although the trade doesnt make sense to me, name a pitcher that the whitesox have traded in the last 15 years and were later "wrong" about. I gotta believe KW knows something we dont or he is really trying to trade pitching for someone like Carl Crawford

This point was on B&B and it should shut up people complaining about the trade. Remember when KW traded "untouchable" miguel olivo (sucks now) for freddy garcia and sure some people on this board hated that trade. Fast forward to last year where he traded the greaest CF of all time Aaron Rowand for JIM THOME. Then turns around and trades Garcia who people b****ed about getting ini the first place, for prospects. In short, If you fall in love with players, it is costly, and baseball retarted.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:58 AM) I still think I'm the only one who doesn't consider the Roberts contract very bad. It's KW's job to go out and find a LF for this team. Settling with Pods because "you know what he'll give you" is just stupid. Pods was one of the worst starters in baseball last year. Dave Roberts is bad at baseball. It even sounded as though they signed Pods to eventually trade him. I'm not saying Pods is good either, but I would rather have him around for only 1 year than Roberts for 3. Plus, Pods can atleast attempt to lead off. I dont think Roberts fits well in our lineup QUOTE(ChiSox9 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) How did this trade not help in 2007????? We put a up and coming pitcher in the rotation, saved $10M to spend elsewhere and stocked our farm system with 2 solid guys (if they dont go to the bullpen in 07). All you all were saying that garcia is lazy, poor work ethic, pothead, lost velocity... well he's gone? How are we not better? I dont think anyone has really said this, but that 10mil could be used as leverage in a big trade. Keeny doesnt go from trade to trade, is planning out his moves three trades before

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:49 AM) I wouldn't mind Anderson in CF if we could upgrade our LF position. BUT THERE IS NO MARKET FOR A LF. Thats why Pods is back (very cheaply I might add concidering the market). We will look back at this offseason 3 years from now when the market corrects itself and all of these silly contracts will put some teams into deep holes. Thank god Kenny is not giving Dave Roberts a boat load of money to suck.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) Figgins is a Podsednik with clearly better stats. Better in basically every stat, and a much better base stealer. And 2007 is a year when the Sox should contend for the playoffs. You don't make trades to make your team worse in the short-term when you're trying to contend. And yes, those prospects are pitchers, and that does have value. But do you know what the failure rate is for pitching prospects? Im not Figgins sucks, I did not word my sentence correctly. I guess what I mean is he wll steal a bunch of bases and can play a bunch of positions with a medocore glove at best. As for 2007, what evidance says Brandon will be bad? ON PAPER, it is a downgrade, but thats why you play the games. Furthermore, for 2008 and beyond WHEN WE STILL WILL BE CONTENDING FOR A DIVISION TITLE a lot of our current rotation will be leaving via free agency. It helps the team win down the road whether its through the actual players themselves or other players they can bring as b/c of their trade value

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:43 AM) Brian Anderson sucked last year offensively, there's no other way to put it. I was clamoring for Ozzie to start him every day in CF, but he was not a contributor. not everyone is going to hit .300/20 hrs/80rbi's I think Anderson's glove saved a lot of runs last year, especially with two slow corner OF's

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 11:42 AM) Yeah, I guess BMac has to take his licks sometime. And now he's going to take them in 2007. Therefore, since KW didn't acquire anything that helps the team in 2007, and since BMac is going to be "taking his licks" this year, this trade didn't improve the team in 2007. but even you said Brandon has to start sometime. So when 2008? After Freddy leaves and we get nothing in return? I dont understand this BRANDON HAS TO GET EXPERIENCE but we cant make room for him in the rotation!!!! Look its December, we still have 2 1/2 months until spring training, plenty of action can, and will go down between now and then.