NorthSideSox72

I've seen Rock and wite hint at it now, and the more I consider it, the more it makes sense... Even though the farm system has been drained yet again, its important to note that the team has actually been stockpiling good, young, cheap talent - but at the major league level. Quentin, Ramirez, Swisher, Richar, Floyd, Danks... add in home grown talent like Fields, Owens, some of the bullpen pieces like Logan, Wassermann... and the 2008 team is suddenly showing a lot of young talent. So even though they aren't farmhands, they are still going to likely help this ballclub for the next few years much the same way a strong talent at AAA or AA would, except sooner. And even O-Cab, who is older, is there to potentially protect a position (SS) that the farm system lacks any near-ready talent in. And that provides a nice side effect too. Think about this for a second. KW has basically turned his player development and scouting staff upside down in the past year - he is starting over. If those things result in positive change, it will take a few years, as they draft and develop better talent. So what does that system need to do that? Time. And these younger players who now will be a large chunk of the 25-man roster gives the team exactly that. Time to get the system up and running in its new model.

Phil is right about the team making an already bad farm system worse, no doubt about it. Losing Carter, Gio, DLS and Sweeney in the same offseason is a blow. But if he thinks this team isn't a lot better than they were 6 months ago, he's blind. This team is one good SP away from contending. Heck, even if 2 of the current back end 3 perform well, that might do it (though I'd prefer they didn't take that chance).

So now the team has an outfield of Quentin-Swisher-Dye. Seems to me, that either in mid-2008 (if the Sox aren't contending) or between 2008 and 2009 (if they are), they'll trade Dye for his remaining year, and the outfield becomes Swisher-Ramirez-Quentin. Plus Owens is still in the wings just in case Ramirez doesn't pan out. Looks pretty good to me.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 10:11 PM) He must be drinking out of the same bottle as Isiah Thomas. KW needs to get some more pitching and he will have a decent ballclub. If one of the back 3 in the rotation can be improved significantly... this team could very well compete for a playoff spot.

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) My money is on Bloomberg which is a mistake. I like a Richardson or Schweitzer VP nod myself. Richardson would be ideal, but with his Clinton ties, I doubt it happens. Bloomberg maybe, but I think he wants to stay Indie. Should be interesting to see who Dodd and Biden endorse, if anyone. Seeing some earlier rumors, I think Biden may endorse Obama and end up SecState. Of course, Richardson would also make a solid SecState for someone.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 05:50 PM) If McCain pulls 18%, He's a big hero. If Hillary Clinton squeaks by with a win at 33%, she's been rejected by 2/3 of the Democratic party. Thank God the media is on the Dems side... What about that makes you think they are not? Or are? I don't get it. Of course Clinton is seen rejected - she has been the clear national leader for some time now. This WAS a big loss for her. And McCain barely ran in Iowa - 13% and 3rd or 4th place isn't exactly a victory, but it doesn't hurt him much either.

I think its interesting that the Des Moines Register is yet again showing its accuracy in polls, like it had in 04 and 00. People questioned the large number of new caucus-goers in their poll, and sure enough, they are saying the largest ever number of them went - 40%+. I am ecstatic about Obama winning. This is great news. And this is so key for him the rest of the way. Huckabee, while I am not a fan, its nice to see someone somewhat anti-establishment winning both parties. I just hope it doesn't mean he has handed the nomination to Rudy Giuliani, who I detest.

11% is, as Rex said, pathetic. Period. And as much as I understand the original reasons for Iowa going first, at this point, the primary/caucus system with Iowa being so important every year is just nonsensical.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:21 PM) Well, this is the kind of move that allows a team to reach the postseason iff absolutely everything goes right. The rotation itself is a question mark right now, but I see Contreras as a huge wild card right now. If he pitches well, the team could be in for a surprise season; if not, the Sox are screwed. This team's 3-4-5 in the rotation is the key to 2008. If JC pitches well and at least one of Danks/Floyd does too... this team could be in the post-season mix. If they don't...

Anyone know a good A's message board? I was supposed to compile a list for all teams and post it, but I dropped the ball.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:41 PM) Like this list matters anymore. Hey man. This means Adam Tollefson just jumped onto my Top 25. Rock and f***ing Roll.

QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 02:00 PM) But if floyd/danks fail, i don't think that it would've been Gio and DLS that we would've gone to this year anyway. Actually, I think Gio would have been next in line. Now its Egbert or Broadway. Maybe Haeger.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:58 PM) Ya, I appreciate the post but no offense, I'm just not a huge fan of defense stats. Would definitely love to talk to someone who has seen him play out there a number of times. I think the most important point in there is that he hadn't played CF before 2007. Which means he's not going to be great at it, but also means he is likely to improve in 2008. By the way, just looked - also no CF in the minors for Nick. He was a true rookie at it.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:51 PM) I'll ask again but does anyone know how good of a cf Swish is? I honestly don't recall see him playing center, so I'm very curious. Stats, FWIW... FPct: .986 (would be around 15th of 18 qualified CF) RF: 2.62 (would be around 12th of same) ZR: .836 (would be around 17th of same) Had 1 OF assist Not looking great statistically. But that may not be a great measure, with his limited time there. IMPORTANT NOTE: He had barely ever played CF before 2007 (3 innings TOTAL at major league level), so he was in learning mode. If he can learn...

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:47 PM) It seems pretty clear to me that Fields is going to go for a young pitcher. I think that is the next move. And what, Crede at 3B for one year then gone? I don't think so. I think its more likely Crede goes for spects. And if they do make a move for a younger pitcher, its Crede and one of Quentin/Ramirez that leaves, along with something else.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:45 PM) People keep on saying that, but a lot and I do mean a lot of people here thought the Sox were a legit contender. This year, not so much. A lot? Almost no publications picked the Sox to go post-season. Now on here, I wasn't around, so I don't know. Were Soxtalkers saying the 2005 team was post-season bound?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:45 PM) So let me get this straight. The very same people that applauded KW for not "draining the farm system to get MCabrera, now are thrilled the White Sox get Nick Swisher for these 3? I thought Quentin was the second coming in LF? I get the feeling that Swisher is intended for CF.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:42 PM) White Sox Spring Training 2005 says hello. In fact, this lineup is significantly better than 05's. But the rotation isn't as strong, and its unlikely the bullpen will do as well in the middle.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) Swisher played 60 in CF, 57 in LF, and I think a bunch at 1B (Per Murphy on the Score)... Maybe he does end up being the CF. Is he running on the GOP ticket? The long hair and tats say no.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:39 PM) Pablo and I thought Ramirez played SS also. Ramirez might be a utility IF all the way around the horn. Especially since Owens and Quentin are not infielders, and Ozuna is a butcher at SS (though he can play not-horribly at 3B).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:38 PM) Pablo. Oh crap!!!! I knew I missed someone. So with Ozuna, the bench is full with Uribe OR Crede staying, but not both. And you lack a true 1B in that mix, but I'd imagine someone could pick that up (at which point they'll tear a ligament and Ozzie will be made a pariah).

QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) Swisher played nearly 60 games in CF last year....I'm sure that KW made this move with the intent on him playing CF for the Sox. Owens will probably get some playing time in LF, with Quentin getting the majority of the starts. That makes sense. Owens as a 4th OF (probably what he needs to be anyway), playing some CF and LF off the bench and pinch-running. Ramirez to back up Richar at 2B and maybe get some time in the OF as well. So, the bench has (barring trades): Owens (LF, CF) Ramirez (2B, CF, RF) Hall © Uribe (SS, 3B)???? ???? Crede will be gone. And Uribe might be too. So, who is your backup for the left side of the infield? Uribe might stick around and be that guy for SS and 3B. That still leaves one more bench spot, most likely a lefty-hitting guy who can play corner IF... any ideas? Could the team go with just those 4 on the bench? Or maybe Crede stays too, and you get him part time at 3B, with Fields/Crede also relieving Thome at DH and PK at 1B?

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) I'm fine with the lineup, I've been ok with it for a while. It's the rotation that scares the hell out of me. There is absolutely no way imo that we can count on Contreras, Danks and Floyd to all be successful this season. Even Vazquez to a lesser extent is a little bit of a question mark. I agree on Contreras-Danks-Floyd. But I really think that Vaz and MB make a solid 1-2. And I suspect that Kenny is still maybe going to make a move for a starter, sending one of Danks or Floyd to AAA.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 01:20 PM) And this team is still miles away from competing this season. If Swisher was the last piece for this team to be a contender then I'd be all for this. We're still miles behind Cleveland and Detroit and now we have absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing left in the system. Konerko better be gone within the next few days. True on the system. But if you can find a way to start Quentin, Swisher and Dye in the OF, with Fields-OCab-Richar-PK on the IF, I am starting to think the Sox are going to have a pretty potent lineup. Its just that 3-4-5 of the rotation that scares me right now. The lineup and bullpen I think will be good. Bench we'll see. And I do think at this point that KW will attempt to trade Uribe (soon) and Crede (in ST) for whatever pitching prospects he can get.

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Jan 3, 2008 -> 12:42 PM) Dems: Obama 32 Edwards 29 Clinton 23 Richardson 8 Dodd 7 GOP: Romney 32 Huckabee 31 (Lots of momentum, not so much organization) Paul 12 Thompson 11 McCain 10 Guiliani 2 Wow - Paul in 3rd, eh? That would be quite a thing. And Dodd at 7 but no Biden?