NorthSideSox72

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) Well I don't know about that... What are the odds that some gets killed in prision? I doubt other prisioners wait to find out if a fellow inmate is guilty or innocent "for real" before shanking them. Without knowing the statistics, I would imagine that some people who are actually innocent and in prision do get killed. If they hadn't have been wrongly convicted, you could argue they wouldn't have been murdered. I have a hard time with the arguement that you can't punish someone because of factors like that, because how far do you go? Do you quit sending people to jail because innocent people get convicted, and they might get murdered in prision? They are just as dead as if you executed them right? I would imagine the odds of being killed in prision are better than being executed, right? I wonder how the numbers would actually work out??? Is that you, Justice Brennan?

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) no interest in Into the Wild - is there a plot? or does the guy wander aimlessly in the wilderness for two hours and then die? I'm gonna guess you can safely remove Jack London, Sigurd Olson, John Muir, Aldo Leopold and Jon Krakauer from your reading list.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:33 PM) When we take a life via the death penalty we are placing the criminal's life below the life they took. Trying not to be flippant or sarcastic with the next comment, but it would then seem we have now placed symbols ahead of human life. We have decided that someone who is part of the judicial process' life is more valuable and worth more protection than someone who is not. I agree there is some logic in our hierarchy or else it would not still be used. But anyone who claims it is simply one life for another is not be intellectually honest. I am not saying I agree with this, but I think you missed my point. Its not placing more value on the life of someone who happens to work in the judicial system. Its placing a differential value representing the system ITSELF. Does that make it more clear?

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) Well if you just say Thomas was a better hitter, then it's not a lie since a lie is a statement someone knows is false, but is made with the intention that others will see it as truth. However, it is more than feasible to say and believe that Frank was just generally a better hitter than Manny in their primes. But since I know your smart enough to realize that Frank was not a "far better" hitter in his prime than Manny, the statement was technically a lie, albeit a relatively insignificant little white lie. I think you're overanalyzing a bit. The word far just sort of came out. Not even sure why I used it. Point is, one cannot "lie" about a subjective opinion.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) Well Miguel Cabrera handled it as well, he had a similar aggressive move up through the system. The reason I posed this, is when I have seen the true impact Latin players there we signed as 16 year old and were aggressively put through the system. I just wanted to see what people thought would be a timeline. For me this is uncharted territory. I like the fact that we picked up a toolsy 16 year old. This is a shift in our talent acquisition that has me pretty damn happy. This is the way we should start to go. I am pretty happy with this move so far. Agreed. It just got me thinking of the consequences a bit.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) You said Thomas was a far better hitter in his prime than Manny, that is what I called a lie because it is. And yes Frank has drawn a few more walks, but Manny has hit for a little more power. In the end, the numbers are and pretty much always will be a wash once they both retire, and I think that's fitting since they are about even in terms of hitters once you balance out all the factors. I'll remove the "far" from my statement if you promise to go look up the definition of the word "lie".

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:18 PM) What about race and gender tex? http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cp.htm Shocking that of all the people put to death in 2006, not 1 is a female? Kind of suggests that humans are unable to dole out such a penalty evenly. And of all those capitol crimes eligible for the DP, what percentage of them were committed by women? I'm guessing its very, very small.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) Once we start the death penalty, the sliding scale of human value bothers me. And it isn't just the criminals, but the victims also. A cop is valued greater than a truck driver. A cop getting murdered automatically places the death penalty on the table, not so with a trucker. And it isn't the value of the life taken, we also factor in how they were killed. A drunk driver does not face the death penalty, why is the person he killed valued less than a shooting victim? I believe that the value of human life is in the life, not what the individual does with that life. The genesis of the circumstances of aggravation that result in crimes against law enforcement officers (and fire and EMS personnel for that matter) is not about their life being worth more - its about protecting the symbols of law and order. Its judicial survivalism.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) Felix Hernandez signed as a 16 year old. Was playing in Class A as a 17 year old. Yeesh. Hey, if they can handle it, great. But most 16-year-olds I know have a hard time remembering where they put their school books. Seems like sending them off to a foreign country and under the lense of professional sports seems like it would take a pretty big toll on them. I am not saying they shouldn't do it necessarily - just that it seems very high risk to me.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:09 PM) Seems our pitching coach thought '05 had a lot to do with luck All sports and all events therein involve some luck. That's why they play 162 games times 9+ innings times 6 outs and a bunch of other plays times innumerable pitches, etc., etc. Over a whole season, luck tends to even out. Its simple statistics - larger sample set, less luck involved. And looking at the other teams that have won championships, the 2005 Sox make a case for having one of the most dominant overall seasons ever, based on their record throughout. That's why I find the idea that 2005 was "lightning in a bottle" to be pretty laughable.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 01:03 PM) Sorry, I don't mean to be insulting. I just find it odd that people consider one innocent life so important when we deal with death on a daily basis. If people are so strongly opposed to the death penalty because innocent lives are taken, then it shouldn't matter that the costs of society prevents us from protecting every life. How is that not a double standard? What if the statistics show that for every innocent person wrongly convicted and put to death, 10 lives are saved from criminals convicted of murder who kill again after they do their time? Would your positions change? I know you weren't trying to be insulting, I just think you went a bit over the top in your characterization of those who find the DP morally repugnant. Criminals who would otherwise be tried for capitol crimes aren't going to "go free" - they would be on life without parole. So I think the whole "remove them from society" angle doesn't fly, because its the same either way. That leaves three arguments in favor of DP, as I see it - cost, revenge and message (preventing crime via threat). I think the last of those three, and to a lesser extent the first, make some very good sense. But revenge is not a valid reason. I am honestly on the fence on DP. I have zero problem with killing someone who has commited capitol murder. But, thing is, I agree with some others here about one critical point - no matter how hard you try to perfect the system, the occasional innocent will be sent to the chambers, and I am not sure that is acceptable to me. Unlike traffic deaths, they can be prevented very simply and for minimal increase in cost, by simple not having the death penalty.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 12:54 PM) Umm....no. career: Frank: .303/.421/.561/.982 Manny: .313/.409/.593/1.002 In their prime (Their 7 best seasons): Those 7 prime seasons are every 1.000+ OPS year for both guys, and in their seasons besides that, their numbers are also similar except Frank has a bit more experience obviously (although not that much more due to injuries). The only real noticeably difference there is obviously Frank's obnoxious strike shortened season, but Manny had two years with an OPS in the 1.100+ range, whereas Frank never got that high other than 1994. They are undebateably the two best right handed hitters of our generation, but to say Frank was a far better hitter either in his prime on in general is just a lie. If Manny plays well past his prime like Frank has, the numbers in fact would probably end up being even closer than they already are, too. Manny hasn't hit his later years, as you say. Besides, I still disagree with you. I think Thomas was a better hitter in his prime than Manny in his prime. Those .020 points of OPS are very small, but OPS is not the end all measurement. Thomas had a much better OBP, even though he had slightly less power than Manny, during their primes. Career wise they will probably finish almost identical in OPS, I'd guess. So as Manny continues to decline, and his numbers fall below Frank's, it will become even more clear. I think Thomas was the better hitter. Disagree if you'd like, you do make some good arguments. But calling anyone's opinion a "lie" is kind of ridiculous. I mean, if I said Ross Gload is better than either of them, I suppose maybe the "lie" label works. Maybe.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 12:10 PM) It's an acceptable risk. Just like we know that hundreds of thousands of people have died from car accidents yet we continue to let people drive; hundreds of thousands have been killed from acts related to alcohol, yet we still allow people to drink, etc etc. The high and mighty moral position here of innocent life is just bogus in my opinion considering in all aspects of life we continue to walk through life knowing that people will die everyday. While I agree that acceptable risk is part of many life-and-death decisions made by society... I think your calling the anti-death penalty position "high and mighty" and "bogus" is a over the top and maybe a but insulting. You may disagree with it, but its not as if its evil or something. No one is saying these people should go free. And the reason we do less about traffic fatalities isn't about freedom, its about cost.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 12:33 PM) One can only guess that he's hung like an elephant, as well. I feel a Chuck Norris / John Schuerholz reference on its way...

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 12:45 PM) Well remember, kid or not this has been done before. The MLS has had a few 15 and 16 year old kids playing in their professional league making money. Hell this is how its done in international soccer leagues, sign them before their 16th birthday and put them in their academy. They start to make appearances by their late teens. Yeah, but again, where do they play until they are 18? Looking at Guillen for example, he was signed at 16 but didn't play on a US-based team until 1982 (when he was 18).

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 11:10 AM) Now the question is, where does he land next year. And what is a time table on how he would be promoted through the minors. I understand that its all based on his ability to take his natural raw talent and take advantage of it. Where does a 16 year old play next year, Low A is it Rookie ball, Dominican Summer League? I keep thinking about the legal and moral implications. I mean, lest we all forget, he is a 16 year old KID. He isn't a legal adult. I think its difficult to justify shipping him off to Bristol or Great Falls at that age. I'd think the safer thing to do would be to have him play DSL ball as a 17-year-old this coming year, maybe play some winter ball after that in the Caribbean somewhere or the Dominican League, then as an 18-year-old move him up to Bristol of GF. ETA: How has this been done before? Wasn't Ozzie Guillen picked up as a 15-year old?

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 08:52 AM) Thomas was as good but not for as long a period of time. Thomas was a far better hitter in his prime than Manny in his prime. Heck, even taking a career-long view, that is still true.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 10:22 AM) Seriously? Do you actually think that? John Kerry's campaign was totally in the toilet before he won Iowa, and winning Iowa won him the election because of that whole "momentum" thing. Edwards finished 2nd in Iowa and it turned him into the #2 candidate. Until we actually reform this system and get these 2 states out of their "locked into first every year" role, which is almost entirely unjustified by anything except recent precedent, a small, agricultural state in the Midwest with a very homogeneous racial population will keep deciding the Presidency. 1. I thought she was just making an Iowa joke. Being a former resident, I recognize it. 2. Iowa's being first is not just precedent - there were a lot of reasons for it at first. Iowa was considered "middle America", it was politically centrist, it had an unusually well educated population (thanks to some of the best schools in the country), it had large rural areas but also some decent size cities, and it was geographically central. 3. I do agree that a better system needs to be in place, and Iowa doesn't need to be first every year.

I can't imagine anyone will pay A-Rod or any other single player $30M a year. Its just incredibly stupid, no matter how good they are. I'd bet money that A-Rod ends up nowhere near $30M a year, probably closer to 20 than 30 in fact.

QUOTE(scenario @ Oct 16, 2007 -> 09:58 PM) I scanned the rosters for Venezuelan League teams and saw Carlos Vazquez and Ehren Wasserman listed. Vazquez has pitched in one game already, but I didn't see any stats for Wasserman yet. Thanks for the info! More detail... Vasquez is playing for Caribes de Oriente, and Wassermann and Jose Martinez (Bristol) are both on Tiburones de la Guaira. I had remembered Wassermann saying he volunteered to pitch this winter, but I didn't know about Vazquez or Martinez. Those rosters are so huge, I am not sure how much time they will get. Also of Sox-related note, Wiki Gonzalez is playing for Cardenales de Lara, Gustavo Molina is playing for Navegantes del Magallenas, and Hideo Nomo is pitching for Leonas de Caracas. There are a bunch of big name players from all over MLB, too.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 17, 2007 -> 08:17 AM) Anyways, getting us away from John Edwards and back onto task here, there are a couple of interesting things I noticed here. First of all I seemed to recall that the first estimates of this campaign were actually only one billion dollars, and that was supposed to scare the life out of us. Secondly with the Democrats outraising the Republicians at a 3 to 1 rate, it is actually the party who was previously championing campaign finance reform, who is actually milking the system most effectively in this election cycle. All those calls about changing the system have gone strangely quiet, lately. I think it will have to be a President, in power, who crusades for any sort of real changes to the election system as it stands. Congress, with either party in charge, won't do it.

It amazes me that some people still think that a team who won 99 games, was in first place the entire season and then went 11-1 through the post-season "caught lightning in a bottle".

The Grand Old Party has decided to move its Iowa Caucus date up to January 3rd, in order to keep Iowa more up front among the states. Dems have not indicated if they will do the same. Seems like this contest to be first is kind of counterproductive for everyone involved.

A bunch of Sox pitchers played today for Phoenix, but no position players... Egbert: 3.0 IP, 1 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 0 K (starter) Day: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K Russell: 1.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K (got the win) In Mexican League action, Mochis had the night off last night (and are still undefeated at 5-0). Tonight's game is just underway with Bourgeois starting in CF and leading off, and Mr. Heath Phillips on the mound for his second start in that league. In Hawaii, Waikiki already played, but Inouye didn't.

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Oct 16, 2007 -> 03:09 PM) You said he didn't give up .005% of his annual income. When that ended up off by about 49.995% of his annual income, you switched it to Net Worth. Either he does what he asks of people or he doesn't. Maybe its time you let some truth enter your perception. I'm no fan of John Edwards, but it's just aggravating. Either he helps people or he doesnt. Yeah, I have to agree. I don't like Edwards, but I think its safe to say the guy does give plenty back to society, at least financially. There are plenty of reasons to dislike Edwards - this isn't one of them.