NorthSideSox72

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) lol, yeah this site really censors KW/Ozzie bashing. Seriously, that's nearly all this forum has on it recently, no one is censoring s***.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:11 PM) I'm sure Stewart is faster than Lucy or at least I wouldn't be surprised. Lets be honest, neither of us know how good of a base runner Donny is but I'd take my chances with Zach there. Ozzie disgusts me but that's a move that actually made sense imo. In his last season where he played full time in AAA, which was in 2007, he stole 13 bases in 14 attempts (and had double digits in years before that too). He was injured in 2008 and has been a backup since, but stole a few anyway. Plus I've seen him play. And an Al pitcher who never hits/runs is a much higher injury risk. Zero doubt in my mind that Lucy is a decent baserunner and made more sense there, the only reason he didn't is that as someone else pointed out, Ozzie NEVER plays his backup C for the game. In any case, this was well down the list of his stupid mistakes, and it turned out not to matter. If Rios got a hit though, it could have.

QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) . . . good way to keep the KoolAid flowing, Northside . . . can anyone say censorship? . . . . . . Sox fans won't be silenced. We're tired of the Kenny/Ozzie game; this year it finally went beyond mere entertainment to distraction and finally to open warfare as Ozzie used the baseball team to try to embarrass Williams. So much for being a professional. It is clear one - or both - of these guys needs to go. Ozzie's the likely candidate. The players have clearly already tuned him out, as we're in the second year of unbelievably poor starts out of the gate and complete underachievement over the 162 game season. What on earth are you talking about? I want Ozzie fired, and possibly KW. I just vented in the Game Thread. I combined the threads because we don't need three of them on the same topic. but keep up the attitude, so how that goes.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:10 PM) Stewart running for PK was the only logical move this entire game. Eh, it doesn't upset me nearly as much as some other moves, but I disagree it was logical (unless Lucy was already used and I missed it?)

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 04:08 PM) Had no one left to pinch run, had to do something there. Donny Lucy was still on the bench. He's faster and more used to running. Seems like that is lower risk than losing a pitcher for the game. Flowers gets hurt, worst case, the Sox lose the DH in extras.

I normally don't like to add to the anger party in a game thread, but... Adam Dunn pinch hitting for Lillibridge? SERIOUSLY???? When Lilli already hit a HR? And did I read the box score right - Zach Stewart ran for PK? WTF was that about? Why the f*** is Rios hitting cleanup??? These are ALL Ozzie. And how perfect for 2011 - the Sox very nearly com back again, and the two guys who fail - Rios and Dunn, both on K's. Sounds about right.

I"m combining three threads. We don't need a new thread every time someone else wants to b**** about the same stuff.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) It never, ever could have. It was way too small. It needed to massively increase the debt load. And have much fewer tax cuts. I understand your beliefs on that. But you, and SS2K5, are missing the point, that you are basically saying "1 + 1 = 2!!!" followed by "No, 2 + 2 = 4!!!". Its hilarious.

Again, this whole argument is silly, when you consider that the lefties are correct (in that the stimulus bill did, clearly and demonstrably, keep UE numbers a lot better than they may have been), and the righties are correct (in that the stimulus bill did not push the economy into growth, was not well designed, increased debt load, and failed to come close to the expectations set by the White House, whose economic analysis was itself flawed). Really, you guys are talking past each other on this.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) I beg to differ. Did you miss the part where I said ONE MIGHT BE? QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 10:34 AM) I think it is or should be a group of your best prospects who have at least one full year and preferably two years of pro ball up to AA. Obvious exceptions are guys with injuries and pitchers who have exceeded some mythical pitch count plateau. The Rockies just announced their AFL players, and they have several with really nintriguing offensive numbers in High A and AA. I just wish we had a few of those. I wish we had a better farm system too. But the AFL isn't a reward, it is a tool, and should be used as such. Doyle is a fringe guy, they want to see if he is for real... Phegley has missed a lot of time in his development so far and moved up fast, so they want him to see more action... Short is another fringe guy, same thing, they want to see how "real" he is, and possibly show him off to other clubs... Saladino is a legit good prospect, and they may want to get a closer look at him.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 10:27 AM) It stimulated the economy pretty much exactly as models with the revised 2008-2009 data indicate that it would have. Given that it wasn't an ideal package (too many tax cuts, not enough immediate spending) and that it wasn't large enough even by the 2009 data, its impact was overstated by politicians. Not by economists. It stabilized the economy and prevented it from falling off a cliff, but no, it was not enough to break the cycle and get us into a true recovery. You can't fault economic models for political overstatements of their effects. That is what it accomplished - keeping the Great Recession from becoming more like a Great Depression. It did not propel growth though, not in any big way, nor did it achieve the desired UE numbers spouted by ObamaCo. So you are both right.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 09:54 AM) ....or maybe it's just a lack of prospects. Sort of missed the point. The AFL isn't a best-prospects list, for any organization, Sox or otherwise. So a "lack of prospects" has nothing to do with it. The Sox system is piss-poor right now, but no one thinks that Terry Doyle, Tyler Saladino, Brandon Short and Josh Phegley are the best prospects in the system. Hell only one of those might be in the Top 10 for the Sox.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 31, 2011 -> 09:02 AM) I love how Joe is getting ripped to shreds by the other local media. What's funny is, Cowley has been doing that to the other writers for years, and the other writers usually don't take the bait. This time, I think they see that Cowley will be royally f***ed when Ozzie is gone, so they are willing to take a thinly veiled jab to help that process along.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) Not exactly an A List of prospects You have to understand, the AFL is used (at least by the Sox) for multiple purposes, such as: --Getting more work in for a prospect that may have missed time during the season --Showing off a prospect to scouts for future trade value --Pushing a prospect off the fence - guys who are borderline, want to know how they do against tougher competition, see if they are for real So you often do not get an A-list of prospects, from any team.

Remenowsky has struggled in AAA so far. Uncharacteristic control issues. Rangel Ravelo is quite the effective contact hitter - high averages and low K rates - but no power at all.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 03:46 PM) MDGonzales Mark Gonzales C Josh Phegley, inf. Tyler Saladino, OF brandon Short and P terry doyle will rep White Sox in AFL. Probably will be more names later. I thought for sure we'd see Escobar, Kuhn and Axelrod, though Axel may hit an inning limit. Remenowsky and Santiago also seemed like possibilities.

QUOTE (bozzie @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Can you point to a stretch of more than 1 - or 2 - games where Dunn hasn't been "dung"? . . . The point of the post is clear - Dunn and Rios were played all year long by Ozzie to make Kenny look bad, after Kenny made Ozzie look bad by allowing him Mark Kotsay as DH. Ozzie Guillen sacraficed the Sox season for his own ego. Ozzie's ego has sabatoged things before, but never has an entire season been given away. Until now. What does the bolded mean? Until now... what? What changed today that I missed?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Gardy and the Twins org routinely get the most out of less talented players every year. We seem to actually get less out of more talent routinely. With the lineup KW assembled at the beginning of the season would you have predicted we would be below average offensively? That to me is the key right there. Not that KW hasn't made some bad trades (and also a lot of good ones), and that he hasn't done a poor job with minor league development (though not as bad as sometimes characterized)... But decided whether the manager or GM or at fault for a season, look at how the table was set before it started. Ozzie was given a team that by most accounts was a low 90's win team, with a strong chance to win the division. And his team stayed relatively healthy, until the recent spate of injuries to AJ and TCQ. And he got an unexpected decent starter out of Humber. Knowing all that, this team should be a lot better than it is. That, to me, says the Manager (and coaching staff) carries more of the responsibility than the GM.

welcome to the board. Your title, about the Dunn thing being over... seems to have no connection to the rest of your post. What makes you think its over? For this season, or the future? And from the beginning he was nothing but "dung"? really?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) If I had no Congress to deal with... I'd gut the department of agriculture first. A huge chunk of its money is spent subsidizing production that is already unnecessary and makes the U.S. less healthy. An additional chunk of its marketing dollars are spent doing things like coming up with Domino's "Real cheese!" advertising campaign to support cheese producers. I'd massively pull back on DOD spending, first by ending the wars, but more importantly by closing bases, particularly overseas, and slashing the procurement and maintenance budgets. We don't need 300+ F-22's. Largest possible savings here. Department of Energy, I'd cut nuclear loan guarantees, I'd cut high-carbon energy subsidies, if I got to do everything I could I'd fix the completely broken extraction lease auction system, and I'd add in a carbon tax. I'd do whatever was possible to solve that nuclear waste disposal problem...Yucca is probably finished, but there are other general concepts that have never been tested. The DHS probably has the longest list of things that could be cut or repurposed. Immigrations and Customs is a mess. The TSA is a mess. If I had to make cuts, there's trimmable fat in HHS. FHA loans provide a real societal benefit and long-term savings, but no where here did I get to count that. Interior...Think I already noted this, but they also work to handle energy lease auctions, which is a corrupt cesspool. Department of Justice...country as a whole spends way too much on prisons. DEA, FBI, and prisons are the largest part of this budget. State Department...way too much money goes to Israel, way too much money goes to countries like Pakistan that just turn around and buy jet fighters with the money. Transit...well, frankly they're underfunded. They've been having to deal with less since the gas tax has not been raised to keep up with inflation. Treasury is underfunded for what they're asked to do...enforcing that maze of regulations which we've discussed in other areas. The Corps of Engineers...complete debacle of a mess of a debacle. See about 5 posts back. EPA...underfunded, need Superfund back in particular. NASA...well, depends on if you want a spaceprogram or not. NSF...could probably use 5% more than it gets, but is pretty close to where it should be. When you pump up the NSF funds in any given year you wind up degrading the quality of the proposals you fund. Edit: 2 other points. 1: there's still substantial savings available through an expansion of Medicare or even a reworking of Medicare again, and 2., doing any of these right now fails to make a dent in the actual budget deficit, because cutting federal jobs right now just moves people onto unemployment insurance and Medicaid. Well first, thanks for writing a real response. That took thought. Second, believe it or not, I agree with some of what you said - all the bolded in fact. Maybe this should have been its own thread - What Would You Cut?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) Absolutely. But you've got to balance your immediate needs with your long-term goals as well. You've got 20-25% of your payroll tied up in Rios and Dunn over the next few years. Getting nothing out of them in the future is going to handcuff this team every bit as much as it has this year. You've got to try and mitigate the damage by getting them back on track, so that you don't compound the $20 million you've wasted this year into $80 million over the term of their contracts. The best way to do that was to try to get them consistent PA's in the lowest-leverage situations possible, with the hopes that they can turn things around and get back on track. I agree that Dayan should have been brought up earlier, but from appearances, it was Ozzie that was blocking that move, not Kenny. Ozzie also could have been batting Dunn and Rios lower in the order rather than in critical spots like 4th and 5th, in order to minimize the damage to our scoring opportunities. He did not. I think everyone agrees you had to have Dunn in the lineup most days, for some period of time. For example, I think most people would agree that benching the guy permanently after just one month, given his track record, would have been stupid. But as one month turned into two, three, four and now five... at some point, it becomes clear that playing him every day is not working. He needs like a week off, then start playing part time. And then help him get a serious post-season regimen going.

Random question for everyone here... Can you think of a single instance, in the past few years, where Ozzie had someone swinging on 3-0? I can't think of one. Hard to win at poker when you tell the opponent you are never going to call a bluff.

Ozzie to FLA for whatever the Sox can get, KW promoted to some phantom EVP role, Hahn becomes GM. That would be my preference at this point. Time for new blood and a new attitude, not to mention a manager who doesn't consistently make bone-headed decisions. And yes, Walker needs to go too.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:44 PM) Do I assume the DOD and DHS are off limits because they are too obvious? Nothing is off limits. Go for it. Though if you go as broadly as DOD or DHS, I'd like to hear you be more specific within each. NOAA and USGS are agencies within departments... DOD and DHS are entire departments with many agencies each (although DHS is really a shadow department, since it's agencies fall within various cabinets).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) All the more reason why the USGS should have its budget cut, like NOAA. We don't need to know this stuff. Just a hypothetical question here... If you were forced to choose, say, five departments or areas in the federal government to cust substantially... can be any agency, any given funding channel, etc... What would you choose?