ScottyDo

Honestly, I'd rather see that than a dropped ball because he was hotdogging.

You know, I was cool with the whole Kerry Wood retirement tour thing if he was just gonna get a little standing O and have a press conference after the game. But 5 minutes of Frank Sinatra on the organ and an orchestrated child hug...vomit.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ May 18, 2012 -> 04:29 PM) Ugh. Put him in for one batter. Well, he's a ROOGY. We'll do the same thing for Will Ohman when he retires.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 18, 2012 -> 04:29 PM) Tank would be so much better hitter if he'd not swing at everything. Why is Wood retiring anyway? He came down with a case of acute badness

QUOTE (JoshPR @ May 18, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) Kasper and brenley are clowns This was Hawk and Stoney (mostly Hawk, with Stoney smiling and nodding) Did those other two say something similar? Dumb.

Samardzija's all sorts of pissed off. I hope he's Zambrano, Jr. for the Cubs in the future.

LMAO at the analysis of Beckham's homer....he took Samardzija deep because Paulie got hit?

Hahaha Hawk: "It almost took his what-do-you-call-it...ponytail off". Meanwhile, Barney with a fantastic play.

Man, gotta love that tradition on display right there! Pitchers bunting, WOOOOO!!

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 18, 2012 -> 10:41 AM) No, you're right, he doesn't...but if he goes on a hot streak for a prolonged amount of time and starts raising awareness, he could certainly be valuable by the trade deadline. Part of what you guys are saying though is humorous to me...Viciedo doesn't have all that much value on the market, but you'd be crazy to trade a guy with these kind of skills! Well which is it? Why is his value what it is on the market? If he is such an incredible hitting prospect, why do the rest of the scouts not see it? I suppose I could be totally off-base, but think there are times when your upside exceeds your trade value, and there are times when your trade value exceeds your upside. For instance, the Cubs might be able to get something for LeHair right now. Right now, my general feeling is that the league knows Viciedo has shown little ability to handle the fastball, and until such a time as he does, won't give up much for him. At that point, I'd rather just see what he's got. Maybe he'll change his approach and find consistent success. If so, perhaps you're right and he's a trade candidate.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 18, 2012 -> 04:23 AM) I'm not really sure how it would make sense, so I'm going to go ahead and veto this one. Sorry, should have greened that whole post.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 18, 2012 -> 09:35 AM) Really though, comparing two guys because they happen to be on the Sox and also are fairly slow power hitters doesn't really make them alike at all. I'm not going to pretend as though I saw it with Gordon, and in fact, if you really looked, you'd find a thread where I suggested we sign Gordon to a Evan Longoria-type deal in 2009, where we bought out a few of his arbitration and FA years, but are you glad we have showed this much patience with him? Do you wish we could go back now and trade him when he was one of the most-hyped young players in the League? I just don't think Viciedo has the trade value now that Beckham did then. At that point, Beckham was selected as the best 2B of the next decade by some MLB.tv segment. You could have traded him for something decent. I just don't think Viciedo will net you that much, because he didn't zoom through the minors and perform exceptionally in the majors immediately like Gordon did.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 18, 2012 -> 09:32 AM) You guys can make all the comparisons you want...that's perfectly ok with me. Again, I hope you're right, because I don't think Kenny will move him. This isn't about patience with me. It's about trading someone while he has high value while keeping in mind the high attrition rate for prospects as well as my particular opinion in this case. I just don't love his approach, despite his massive power. And ss2k, before you even say it, yes, I understand people are going to disagree with me. I've got absolutely no quarrel with that. But I can live without the veiled insults or the implication that I'm a lunatic. I think I've got enough of a body of work around here to get a little slack when it comes to opining on WS players without playing devil's advocate or being negative to be negative. If that's a reference my way, I apologize. I was mostly being snide for the sake of humor, I'm generally down with your opinions and have respect for them even in the odd case where I disagree.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 18, 2012 -> 02:33 AM) Came here for Chris Sale. Leaving disappointed. Is Estate Sale his new nickname? I simultaneously hope so and hope not. You're the expert on these matters.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 17, 2012 -> 11:13 PM) I don't think anyone's said that specifically. Trade him for someone you like more than Dayan...it's not as if we couldn't use more valuable assets. I just don't know how you trade Dayan Viciedo straight-up for someone better than Dayan Viciedo. It's not like a veteran, where you can trade current production for future production, because you'll be trading for someone the same age or older than Dayan. And it's not like that helps us in the future. Look, I'm not in love with the guy, but you can't just go to the league office and say "upgrade, please!" with your palm out.

I'm confused. Now we're talking about trading Dayan Viciedo for a young hitter with some upside? Isn't that Dayan Viciedo? And who is this magical trade partner? Don't teams trading for young talent usually want to give up expensive veterans? Why do we want expensive veterans?

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 17, 2012 -> 07:34 PM) I hope I'm proven wrong. Unlike some of you, I have been wrong before. It's not the rightness or wrongness that makes me want to call things like this out. It's the impatience. Everybody in their right mind knows you give a 23 year-old, notoriously slow starter with high upside more than a month before you call for his removal. I don't care if you're in win-now mode or not, you still give Viciedo a shot.

Is it time to bump this yet? I guess it must be, because I'm about to hit the button.

QUOTE (59th street @ May 17, 2012 -> 11:24 AM) QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 16, 2012 -> 09:51 PM) * Ok with Viciedo officially heating up, I want Dayan playing at least 2 games vs Cubs. Have Dunn, Dayan and Paulie sit out 1 game each ? In fact: Move Dayan to 3B for the series. This is why inter-league play needs to end. It is grossly unfair to AL teams when playing in NL parks. I know it puts $ in owners pockets but it destroys the integrity of the game. I wish the owners would create a position in MLB senior management that could look out for big picture issues like this and resolve them responsibly........ (hello Bud Selig...FIX THIS!!). While a blanket inclusion or elimination of the DH is probably too much to expect; I will never understand why MLB simply does not allow the AL teams to utilize the DH in NL parks. The NL teams all have no problem switching to the use of a DH when playing in an AL park. This is a simple and IMMEDIATE solution to a significant issue of competitive fairness. Why the AL owners/GM's do not demand that this occur has always mystified me. I am truly interested in opinions on the above. Thought I would try a new thread based on a "carry over" from what was part of a discussion about Viceado/Dunn in LF for the cub series. My feelings are as stated above and I cannot believe the AL teams have allowed this to continue. I would really like to hear what others think about this. I'm not sure this part is true. Since the inception of interleague play in 1997, the American League has won more games than the National League in 11 of the past 15 years, including each year since 2003. Since there are an equal number of home/road games between leagues, the AL is probably winning at a decent pace in NL parks (though I don't have that data). Certainly at a much higher pace than the NL in AL parks. It could be argued that the AL has simply been the more talented league over the past 15 years, but I'm not 100% sure that's the case. I'm not willing to take All-Star Game results or World Series Championships as the deciding factor there, since there are a lot of things at play, most notably small sample size. Either way, I don't think 8 years running of straight AL victory in interleague play is simply due to talent imbalance. There's probably something systematic there. I disagree with your premise that the AL is at a disadvantage in NL parks but the NL is not at a disadvantage in AL parks. When an NL team comes to an AL park, they plug a bench player into the DH spot (it could work other ways defensively, but as far as the lineup is concerned, this is the case). While NL teams tend to have pinch-hitting specialists, they're not going to be as expensive or talented as an AL DH. National League teams don't have Adam Dunns or David Ortizes on their benches. They're LUCKY if they're filling the role with Jim Thome. The AL disadvantage in NL parks is obvious. I do agree that the rules should be normalized for both leagues, though, because systematic competitive disparity is a bad thing, whether in interleague play or the World Series. Incidentally, I'm much more in favor of the DH than the lack thereof because I really don't find it particularly interesting to watch Gavin Floyd bunt for 6 innings just for the sake of a tiny bit of managerial tinkering later in the game.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 16, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) I figured this was self-explanatory. 1. I don't believe Dunn is a 3 hitter because of his radical splits. 7-9th innings, sometimes 6th he can be nutralized by a lefty matchup. 2. Humber and Danks can't be counted on to fill heir respective roles in the rotation and of course Sale with the creeky elbow. Adds up to mediocre SP.. Yes, let's take Dunn and his .384 OBP out from in front of our most prolific hitter for most of the game because in a minority of innings, he might face a lefty. Never mind that Konerko would then be facing a lefty as well.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 16, 2012 -> 12:20 PM) You numbers guys kill me. Do your numbers tell me how the Sox starters will fare from here on out? No. Do your magical prognostications? EDIT: And I'm hardly a numbers guy. I'm definitely in the bottom third here of SABR knowledge/belief. But if you're going to make nonsense claims like the Sox rotation is mediocre and Dunn isn't a 3-hitter, you should be able to support them with something other than your musings.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 16, 2012 -> 11:54 AM) He hits his arb years next year, which means his price is going to go up. His numbers are terrible, though. How much more expensive could he get? Perhaps I'm showing my arbitration ignorance.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 16, 2012 -> 07:24 AM) Just as De Aza isn't a CF'er Dunn isn't a #3 hitter and certainly isn't any long-term solution. As far as SP goes I think we're closer to mediocre than to being solid. Dear Lord, what website do you think you're on? This is Soxtalk, not some message board where you get to say illogical things and then not back them up. I want numbers! Just a few regarding the rotation for you: Starter WAR is best in the AL, QS percentage is 2nd best in AL, 3rd most IP in the AL. I haven't found an easy way of comparing 3-hitters (that's for people who are better at fangraphs than I am), but I guarantee you Dunn is amongst the leaders. It's nice that you have opinions, it would be nicer if you could back them up with anything substantive.

I don't see why you non-tender GB unless you have someone to replace him. I'm aware that he's terrible, but why replace terrible with horrendous? Doesn't gain us anything and it's not like he's expensive.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 16, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) That's the problem every manager has with loogys. There are more RH hitters than LH, and if they are using them with the game on the line, usually a manager has a replacement for an average or poor LH hitter. The only way Ohman faces 90% LH hitters is if he's facing guys like Fielder or Ichiro or Hamilton, so he's going to have to get RH hitters out at least somewhat. His career numbers indicate he is exactly what you described. Or, if he pitches a grand total of like 30 innings over the whole season