WCSox

No offense, but how in the heck did Shingo beat out Sirotka?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 10:15 PM) As long as we have a solid offense around him, we can handle developing him, and he would provide a lot more power then your usual .220 hitter. I believe Fields can be a guy who hits .250-.260, with 30+ homers year in and year out. And the only way he will ever get there is by actually getting a chance to face ML pitching every day. If Fields is going to hit .220, I'd rather go with Uribe. At least Juan is a defensive asset. If Fields isn't hitting .250+ and/or has a weak slugging percentage, there's no room for him in chicago. Either way, I don't think that Fields is ready yet. Kenny's better off giving a veteran a two-year deal and allowing Josh to work his way in.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 07:07 PM) Frankly, I want to see Fields get a full season to sink or swim if Joe walks. Unless Kenny decides to scrap next season and rebuild (which is unlikely), they're going to need a backup plan. Fields was terrible at the dish this year and he's mediocre defensively. QUOTE (RME JICO @ Aug 15, 2008 -> 05:36 AM) Fields and Uribe. I like this idea. Sign Juan to a two-year deal and have a pseudo-platoon at 3B. If Fields plays like he did this year, the Sox can send him back down and at least have Uribe's defense. Juan can also sub for Alexei and whoever we have at 2B (Getz?). Of course, this assumes that Kenny doesn't get somebody like Beltre or Blake.

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 01:21 PM) People overreact way too much around here. Not really. Paulie was f'n awful for most of the season and hasn't exactly been putting up Quentin- or JD-like numbers over the past couple of weeks. That said, I'm glad that he's hitting again.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 04:28 PM) You were right, the Twins did claim him. I bet they would have thrown up if Seattle just let them have him. No doubt that it was a blocking move. But I honestly feel that with the lack of playoff general starting pitching experience (and dependability, in Liriano's case), the Twins could've used a guy like Washburn down the stretch. His contract is far from prohibitive.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 04:48 AM) Poreda > Haeger, Broadway, McCullough, Richard and Delray Brooks in one package Kenny and his subordinates have deemed that Poreda isn't ready. If that's really the case, I'd rather keep him in the minors. QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 09:29 AM) I saw enough from Richard to see that he had a presence on the mound. Sure, he faltered when things got tough, but that's youth rearing it's head. I may be wrong, but I think he'll be a decent pitcher with some maturity and experience. IIRC, Richard feel victim to the big inning in two of his three starts. Outside of those big innings, he was pretty decent. I agree that Richard may have a decent ML career down the road.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:42 AM) So money, not trading within the division, was the #1 priority on Shapiro's mind. So how much cash are the Red Sox going to trade to the Indians for a $2 million contract, $1? Yeah, I call BS on that story. I don't know of many contenders who need pitching that wouldn't pay $2 million for Byrd's services down the stretch. Especially since the Yankees were already in the running for Washburn. Other players who've been caught purchasing PEDs aren't exactly getting black-balled around the league.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:31 AM) Half of the July ERA is due to one swing of the bat. But that doesn't change the fact that he allowed those runners (inherited or not) to cross the plate and took us out of those games. Dotel obviously has a lot of value to this team, but he's sure given up a lot of bombs and leads this year. I hope that Linebrink comes back soon.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:27 AM) no, i think that's a valid concern. at the same time, he's been pretty strong in august so far so there's no trend in place that would suggest he's on a consistent decline as innings pile up. A two-week sample size is pretty small, but I more or less agree that his struggles are either mechanical or mental and not due to fatigue. Middle relievers tend to not experience "dead arm" issues in the way that starters do. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Kenny signed him (especially given the massive pile of dung that we had last season) and he's having a much better year than anybody expected. But this is the same guy who had a 4.11 ERA and a 1.33 WHIP just last season and had a disasterous '06 with the Yankees. Dotel has value as a middle reliever, but I really don't want him in the setup role. I hope that Linebrink is able to come back soon.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:08 AM) expectations? there's 43 games left in the season. i think we pretty much know what we are getting from dotel at this point. which, btw, has been pretty damn good. Yeah, he's been surprisingly good overall. He also put up a 3.72 ERA in July. From here on out, though, it's a question of whether you're going to get the dominant April/May Dotel or the mediocre June/July version who blew several big games. Given his track record, you'll have to excuse me for wondering whether or not the other shoe is going to drop down the stretch.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 08:54 AM) Considering he has 74 k's in 53.2 innings, has allowed 37 hits and has a 1.14 WHIP, I'll take the shell of what he was at Houston. He may struggle to hit 93, but it appears for the most part AL hitters struggle to hit against him. That fine with me but, given his post-surgery track-record of mediocre performance, expectations need to be tempered.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 05:32 AM) Bottom line...you just never know what the heck will happen from year to year. Look at the Indians and Tigers this year, or the Royals for the first half of 2003. Ain't that the truth. Bullpens tend to be fickle because most of their components aren't really very good. Linebrink returning from the DL isn't going to magically improve Thornton's commmand or give Dotel a good offspeed pitch. It'll simply give those guys less opportunities to blow holds. The expectations over Dotel here are mind-boggling. This guy is a shell of what he was in Houston, where he would hit 97 on the gun regularly. He hasn't had a quality season since blowing out his elbow a few years ago. He struggles to hit 93 now and doesn't have a good offspeed pitch to make it effective. He had a surprisingly nice first couple of months, but is it really a wonder that a guy with his lack of stuff is getting hit? The cracks were evident even before Linebrink went on the DL.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 14, 2008 -> 05:13 AM) Because Carl Pohlad is the cheapest owner in sports. Don't forget, Washburn who has been mediocre at best the past 2 or 3 seasons, is owed over $10 million for next year. To say Washburn's contract is manageable, maybe, tradeable? They seem to be having a hard time doing it. They didn't claim Paul Byrd and he is owed nothing in 2009. That's more manageable. Why is the $10 million owed to Washburn next year such a big deal to so many people? That's the current market value for an average-to-mediocre veteran starting pitcher. That's what the Royals pay Gil Meche and what we pay Contreras. I'm sure that even "the cheapest owner in sports" could swing that, given that he shelled out a combined $25 million for Santana and Hunter last year and $5 million for a washed-up Livan Hernandez this year. Who knows why the Twins didn't go after Byrd... maybe they want more than a month and a half of services in return for whatever they give up? If I'm not privy to what goes on in their front office, I wouldn't make absolute statement about their plans.

When he and Roberto Hernandez were traded, it was the end of an era. Those early-mid '90s teams obviously didn't achieve their goal, but they were very fun to watch at times and I have lots of fond memories of them.

QUOTE (earthshiner @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) must have been the year before because if I remember this right Snyder was dealt for Jose That's right, Snyder and Navarro for Jose and Eldred. Can't believe I forgot that...

QUOTE (knightni @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 04:51 PM) Soon after this, he started putting up results on the field, including what may have been one of his most memorable games, a pitcher's dual with Pedro Martinez at Fenway Park. Damned if I can remember the result, but I do remember that he seemed to validate himself as the ace of the team. IIRC, the Sox lost 1-0, with Jose Valentin's error resulting in the unearned run. Didn't John Snyder actually out-duel Pedro that same year, or maybe the year before? Siro was one of my favorites as well. I knew that he was going to be solid when he actually out-performed Wilson Alvarez after the White Flag Trade and, as evidenced here, he seemed like a really nice guy as well. It's sad that his career ended prematurely.

Sounds like somebody pissed in your Cheerios this morning... QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 02:49 AM) Which is why he dealt Byrd to Boston for a PTBNL or cash? Are you f***ing serious? This is one of KW's non-moves that is going to drive me wild, even amongst rumors prior to the season that Byrd is (and potentially still is, for all I care) an HGH user. Byrd's dealing isn't going to f*** the Indians in the long run, regardless of whether he helped the Tigers, Twins, or Red Sox...so why did the f***ing Sawkx give him above all? I don't get it Apparently Byrd cleared waivers before Jose tore his Achilles. In other words, there was no room in the rotation for him at that point. Also consider that the Indians got jack squat in return from the Red Sox. So, even if Kenny did claim him, why would they want to deal a solid pitcher to a division rival for that price? They would save a whole month and a half's worth of salary (whoppie!) and lose the draft picks. The draft picks might be worth more than what they got from Epstein. The Sox need to stop rolling the dice and they need to develop players. Kenny's the best wheeler-dealer GM I've ever seen, but he's not going to be able to continue trading for ML-ready players if he stays on this course. The Sox have very little left in AA and AAA, which is why a washed-up Griffey was Kenny's big deadline move this year. Wow, you have some serious anger issues. Why would I "hate" anybody on the Sox? Especially somebody like Thome, who is pretty much universally-liked around the league. I don't have a massive hard-on for him like you do, but I still like the guy. I also think that we have too many players like him right now and would like to move his salary in the off-season and spend it on something that we actually need, but that's probably not going to happen. That said, I'm not exactly sitting in front of my TV and shaking my fist at him when he comes to the plate. The Sox pen has gone to crap because Dotel, Thornton, and Logan aren't that good. It's pretty simple. Dotel hasn't put up a full quality season since the Tommy John surgery. Thornton was a cast-off from the Mariners and he sucked last year as well. I don't think that Logan has had a single solid year in the majors. Look at their career stats, for crying out loud! Is it really any wonder that these guys are getting hit?! :wacko: Wow, all of this for saying that Kenny needs to focus more on player development. One would think that I cursed your mother or something.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) Yes they would. They have no interest assuming that contract. And you know this for sure because...? Given that their surgically-repaired "ace" got demoted to the minors earlier this year and has a long history of injury problems , that Livan Hernandez was so bad that they put him on waivers, and that nobody else in their rotation has thrown 150 innings in the bigs before, I think that the Twins have more than a few reasons to go after a veteran starter with a ton of playoff experience and a very manageable/tradeable contract. And, of course, the only team potentially keeping them out of the playoffs is also looking for another starting pitcher. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's pretty silly to completely dismiss it.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 01:19 PM) And this francise won't do that with Ramirez, Beckham, and Getz in the system. Not saying that's right Then I'll say it. This franchise is already over-paying for a good-but-not-great SS. They don't need to make that mistake again next year with Alexei and Beckham already at their disposal. The Sox need to concentrate on 3B, CF, and C.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 12:57 PM) Don't forget that a team claimed Washburn today...could very well be the Sox. It's possible, but there are quite a few teams in front of us, including the Yankees and Twins. I don't think that the latter would let Washburn get to us.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 11:51 AM) Utility players just don't make $5M a season (especially ones that hit for a weak average and K a lot). Veteran players typically don't take 60% paycuts when they hit free agency. You're not going to find a good veteran utility infielder for $1 million. Mackowiak was making $2.75 million last year, and he wasn't really good at anything. Geez, even Toby Hall's worthless ass makes $1.75 million. Given Juan's defensive prowess and versatility, my guess is that there's no way he signs anywhere for less than $7 million guaranteed. Uribe's has the ability to play all three positions and play them better than anybody else on the team, so he'd be seeing a ton of action next season in a utility role. He would be far from your average utility player. Given that there's no evidence that Getz can hit ML pitching over the long term or that he's a better defensive option than Uribe or Alexei, I wouldn't automatically pencil him in at 2B next season. I also don't feel particularly safe with a massive question mark at 2B and an Ozuna-like utility guy as his insurance policy. And right now, we (apparently) have Alexei at SS, a player with one ML at-bat at 2B, and nobody capable of playing 3B going into next season. That's a much more dire situation than this past winter, where Kenny didn't blink at the prospect of picking up Uribe's $4.5 million option. Like I said before, the Sox are far from broke, will have $20-25 million freed up next season, and will getting Thome and Contreras off the books the following season. Committing $10 million over two years to a super-utility/insurance-policy player isn't exactly breaking the bank. And given their need for good defensive infielders, it's not a bad option. The Sox are going to need a veteran 3B next season. That's going to be Priority #1.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 11:05 AM) That pricetag is still a bit too steep for mine. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 13, 2008 -> 11:40 AM) I can't see paying a utility bench player 10 mil "just in case". That's $10 million over two years, or $5 mil per... which is only $500k more than Kenny gave Uribe to be a utility player this year. Good luck finding a veteran FA defensive wiz who can play 3B, SS, and 2B exceptionally well and will agree to only $2 million a year. I don't see why Uribe at 2/10 would be a bad investment. That would only make up 5% of the Sox's payroll and there are several aging vets coming off the books over the next two years. On top of the insurance money that they should be getting from Jose's injury, the losses of Cabrera, Crede, and Griffey will free up about $20-25 million for next season. And with the Sox on pace to draw a healthy 2.5 million this season, I don't see JR pressuring KW to slash payroll any time soon. That's news to me, especially with Cabrera almost certainly leaving next year and Richar now out of the picture. Or are you talking about guys in AA or AAA not named Getz? If the Sox can sign Casey Blake at 2/15 or 2/16, I wouldn't have a problem with Uribe leaving town. But with Fields apparently not ready to hit ML pitching (and being a massive defensive downgrade), Getz being an unknown, and even Alexei being an unknown defensively at SS, the Sox need to seriously consider investing in infield depth (even if that doesn't include Uribe). The infield will be ridiculously thin next year.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 03:05 PM) Uribe would be nice to have as a 4th middle infielder defensive sub if he's real cheap. Like $2 million. I bet someone will give him more than thatm though. Given that Uribe is making $4.5 million this year and is more than defensively competent at three infield positions, there's about a snowball's chance in hell that he'll take a massive paycut. If I were Kenny, I'd probably offer him a $10 million over two years. Assuming that Alexei moves to SS, Getz would be our only ML-ready in-house option at 2B and we'd be relying on signing a FA to play 3B. It might be worth over-paying for Juan (like Kenny did earlier this year) as an insurance policy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 07:08 PM) A better shot yes...but you basically said in your first post that the wild card and the East were now decided. I don't think Byrd makes THAT big of a difference that a run by the Sox or Twins or both can't make both races interesting. FWIW, I was pretty sure that the WC was coming out of the East prior to today. And given that the Red Sox were in desperate need of a #5, I disagree that Byrd isn't going to be a difference-maker for them. In that division, they're going to need every win they can get. A Buchholz start is almost an automatic loss and the guy they ran out there against the Rangers tonight got shelled. I don't claim to have a crystal ball or anything and, yes, you're correct that the Sox or Twins would pick up the WC. But my money would be on the WC coming out of the East.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 12:55 PM) And a team trading for Paul Byrd is the thing that makes you say that? With Wakefield out and Buchholtz sucking, the Red Sox had a massive hole at the back of their rotation. Now they have Byrd to go with Beckett, Daiuske, and Lester. They have a much better shot of winning the division or keeping us out of the Wild Card now.