WCSox

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) I would never put those 2 together. Garland had back to back 18 win seasons Garland had one really outstanding season and has been an average middle-of-the-rotation pitcher outside of that. His second 18-win season had more to do with his supporting offense than his pitching. Jon pitched ONE complete playoff game. Agreed that Jon is a better pitcher than Javy, but not by much. And LOL at the "no fluke" comment. GMAFB.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 04:05 PM) Well, he did get hit twice by pitches last night. Didn't he get hit in every game of the BOS series? And more than once in the last Royals series as well? He's taken a f'n beating.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 08:47 AM) I wasn't confident on Danks' at all coming into this season, I figured that Danks was going to be a work in progress, but thought that he'd be significantly better than last season. You could see his talent over the first couple months of last season, and I figured that it was just a matter of confidence and arm conditioning. That said, I figured that a 4.80 ERA was on the optimistic end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 11:55 AM) Well so much for that idea... I wonder if Kenny every had a chance with Shapiro? My guess is that he did, but Shapiro probably asked for more from Kenny than he did from Epstein. The Sox pretty much need to win the division now, because it looks like either the Sawks or Rays will get the WC.

QUOTE (YASNY @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 10:07 AM) Of all the players you mentioned, Swisher is only one that cost us anything that may prove to be of value from our farm system. That's because the Sox farm system is almost completely depleted of ML-ready players, and all the more reason for Kenny to think twice about depleting it further.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 08:34 AM) I can't imagine Halladay would clear waivers or get anywhere close to us. He wouldn't. That would have to happen in the off-season.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) Gavin Floyd.....there, I've cleansed myself of the stupid "guarantee" I made. Yeah, I was pretty critical of the Garland/Cabrera deal. I thought that we should've kept Jon and moved Floyd to long relief. While we could certainly use Jon's services right now, throwing Gavin into the rotation and giving him a chance to sink or swim was certainly the right thing to do.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 02:18 AM) Washburn isn't coming here. Link It sounds like Washburn isnt the guy, but KW is still looking for a guy. The fact that they haven't named a started for Thursday makes me believe they will make a deal. I don't believe anything that Kenny tells the media. His statements are made to put him in a position to get better leverage in negotiations. Probably. QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 12, 2008 -> 05:49 AM) I have no problem giving up Poreda for an SP at this point... I definitely wouldnt give him up for Byrd, but if there is a high level player out there, preferably one who would be a Type A free agent in this year or next, I would send him and Fields. We can deal with the consequences in the offseason, but we are close to the playoffs and have the opportunity to go deep, its time to go into play for today mode. AJ Burnett is probably the best target for right now if he can make it to the Sox in waivers. Or maybe a combo deal with the Rangers for Blalock (TO for next season is relatively cheap at 6.25 MM) and an SP like Millwood (signed at $11 MM in 09, $12 MM VO in '10) basically replacing Jose's contract next year. Millwood has not been terrific in Texas, but that is the ballpark pitchers go to die. I wouldn't trade Poreda for Millwood. But I might package him with Fields and an a couple of A-ballers for somebody like Halladay. Poreda straight-up for Burnett might not be a bad deal, although he's been unusually mediocre this year. Given how badly Thornton and Logan have been pitching and that Poreda will be cheap and under Sox control for several more years, I think he'd fit in very nicely on this team.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 08:03 PM) That's obviously the problem KW has...he can't afford to go out and get Penny, Padilla or even Brett Myers, who would be a huge risk down the stretch. He probably can't even afford to give up what they're asking for Washburn. It is a little mysterious about Byrd though...the guy's a veteran, knows the AL Central as well as anyone, he beat Contreras in the 2005 playoffs when he was clearly the best pitcher in baseball and he would bring that "bulldog" (the pitching version of grinder) mentality to the pitching staff. Vazquez just seems too nonchalant about his losses...the same thing Garland was oft-accused of. If I were to guess, my feeling is that Shapiro isn't exactly eager to help out a division rival and is asking for more than the average GM for Byrd. The financial incentive of saving a month and a half of Byrd's contract is pretty much nil. I get the feeling that he's asking Kenny for Broadway or Fields. Agreed that Vazquez is a puss but, unless Kenny decides to go with a three-man rotation next season, we're pretty much stuck with him for another year. Yeah, I have no idea what he's going to do. At this point, I'd almost rather him just stand pat and let this current bunch sink or swim. Over the past 9 months, he's brought in Cabrera, Swisher, Quentin, Alexei, Linebrink, Dotel, and Griffey. That's some serious re-tooling and it cost the organization to give up even more of its depleted farm system. It's to the point now where we have very few ML-ready players of value in AA and AAA (one might even argue that we have zero). I'm not in favor of mortgaging the future by trading away our best A-ballers as well, so that this good-but-not-great team has a shot at the playoffs. Not when veteran "sluggers" on the team are hitting .220-.240 and veteran middle relievers are crapping their pants in the 7th and 8th innings.

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 10:07 AM) Kittle was my favorite player as a child. +1 I began casually following the Sox in '82. Kittle's the reason that I began watching every game and/or reading the box score in the paper every morning.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:43 PM) If KW doesn't add some depth, we go nowhere. This team already has assloads of depth. The problem is that much of that depth (Konerko, Griffey, Swisher, Crede, Contreras, Linebrink, Thornton, Logan, Dotel) isn't producing right now. You can only spend so much on a team. If these guys can't hit, pitch, or stay healthy, it's on them.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:39 PM) i'm blaming josh beckett for being real good. No kidding. Very nice effort by Danks tonight. Too bad he'll get a big, fat "L" in return.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) Smoltz and Mulder might never pitch again in the major leagues...only our medical staff could determine their situations after doing some due diligence, but I am pretty sure Smoltz is either done or he will try to make his comeback with the Braves. Mulder might draw a little interest Smoltz and Mulder are both done. With Contreras done and nobody in our farm system ready yet, Kenny's probably not going to move Vazquez. I don't know who this theoretical guy with 2-3 years left on his deal to replace Vazquez is. Most of the people you mentioned in your list are either much better than Vazquez, significant downgrades from Vazquez, or complete garbage.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 02:24 PM) Mark signed a 4 year deal too with options; if he gets traded it becomes a 5 year deal, but even the best pitcher for the Sox in the past 10 years didn't get a 5 year deal...why would the Sox sign Garland to a 5 year deal? If anything, Garland is lucky he's been pitching in Anaheim this year and not Chicago, because if he were in Chicago, his ERA would probably be in the 4.5-5 range; his H/9 is up, his BB/9 is up, his K/9 is down, his HR/9 is up, and he's actually been a very average pitcher this season (technically, slightly below average...league ERA is 4.25 and his is 4.28). I think any team that signs Garland is going to regret it 2 years into the deal; they better hope they got him for 3 or maybe even 4 years rather than 5. Same goes for CC Sabathia too. I greatly appreciate everything that Jon did for this team. That said, I agree that he's not that great. For some reason, he never developed a good offspeed pitch. And because he can't keep hitters off-balance by changing speed, he's ultra-reliant on command. If he's not locating that sinker or two-seamer and gets behind in the count, hitters will sit on his fastball and pound the crap out of it. +1,000,000

TB is in trouble if both Longoria and Crawford are out for more than a couple of weeks. This is about the time of the year that young pitchers tend to experience dead arm issues. Losing that much offense (and not to mention Longoria's Gold Glove defense) is going to put even more pressure on them.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:49 PM) the White Sox won't sign a pitcher to a 5 year deal That pretty much nails it. Mark was the exception, and he had to come down to less than his market value for it to happen. And even then, it almost didn't get done. Jerry Reinsdorf & Co. tend to max out at around $35 million for pitchers.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) Apparently Washburn hasn't cleared waivers and the Yankees have claimed him (they have a worse record than us so they would win the claim). However, Byrd has cleared waivers and is a free agent after '08. If you look at his last 5 starts he has been pretty damn good. 4-0 with a complete game: DATE OPP W L ERA IP H ER BB SO JUL 09 @DET 0 0 5.47 6.0 9 3 1 5 JUL 21 @LAA 1 0 5.28 5.2 9 1 2 5 JUL 28 DET 1 0 4.93 7.2 4 0 3 4 AUG 02 @MIN 1 0 4.72 7.0 6 1 2 1 AUG 09 @TOR 1 0 4.53 9.0 6 2 0 2 The only problem is, would the Indians dare to trade within the division. If the Yankees are going to snag Washburn, I'd be perfectly happy with Byrd. I don't think that trading within the division is a big deal for the Jndians in this case, as they're out of it and Byrd is a FA after this season. At the very least, I like Byrd better in the #5 spot more than Carrasco, Broadway, Poreda, or our other minor-league players who have no long-term record of success in the majors.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:49 AM) Washburn just scares me too much considering his salary Why in the hell do people keep saying this? What would we owe him? $13 million over 1.3 years? That's not exactly a Zito- or Hampton-like risk. And if Jose's contract is insured, we'd be recouping at least half that.

QUOTE (Winning Ugly @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 08:12 AM) The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports that the Pirates have traded minor league pitcher Franklyn German to the White Sox for a player to be named. Skinny: German posted a 2.08 ERA in 21 2/3 innings for the Rangers, but he was outrighted and opted for free agency. The righty signed with the Pirates, where he had a 3.58 ERA in 27 2/3 innings at Triple-A. The White Sox are scrambling for pitching depth, and German could join their bullpen soon. He'll have to work on his 37/30 K/BB ratio so far this year. Looks like Carrasco will still start with German taking his spot. I don't mind it, as I feel Washburn would cost too much if the Yanks couldn't deal for him. If German was obtained "for a player to be named", it doesn't sound like we gave up enough for him to preclude a deal for Washburn. That said, I agree that if the Yankees couldn't make a deal for Washburn, I'm not feeling great about our chances either.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 07:48 AM) 3) When we make an acquisition, it's almost always (see Garcia, Contreras, Vazquez, etc.) a pitcher who we have under contract control or feel very confident we can get to sign a long-term deal You want Kenny to trade for John Smoltz, Mike Hampton, or Mark Mulder and then sign them to an extension? I sure don't. Kenny's probably not going to sign any pitcher he trades for this season to an extension. Not with Buehrle, Vazquez, Danks, and Floyd under contract for the next couple of seasons. Many of the players on your list (Webb, Harden, Lackey, Lee, Beckett, Hudson, etc.) are going to command well in excess of $50 million guaranteed. The Sox almost never give that kind of money to free agent veteran pitchers. Kenny tends to limit himself to trading for guys with $30 million left on their deals and I don't think that he's looking towards the 2010 rotation just yet.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 11, 2008 -> 02:58 AM) You missed that all-important stat. As unfair as it is, Hamilton is considered a shoo-in all over the media. They're the ones that do the voting. Trust me, I believe Quentin deserves it. I just don't think there's any chance it happens. I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't say there's no chance. The Rangers aren't going to make the playoffs, they're not a popular team outside of Texas, and Hamilton's not exactly on pace to lead the league in HRs. The voting is done by the Baseball Writer's Association, not the E! Network. Therefore, the League MVP isn't exactly a media-driven popularity contest, as evidenced by Justin Morneau and Jimmy Rollins getting the award in recent years. I don't think that the regular mainstream media would've voted for those guys. If the Sox make the playoffs, I actually think that Hamilton's going to have a tough time. How many players on non-playoff teams have made it in the past? I remember Sosa getting it in '98 over McGwire, despite Mac having better numbers. It was all because the Cubs squeaked into the playoffs. Hamilton would have to put up a truly remarkable season to be a shoo-in on a non-playoff team. Right now, it doesn't even look like he's going to match JD's stats from two years ago. And let's say that Hamilton does get the MVP. That would be fine with me. It would be yet another case of the Sox getting the short end of the media respect stick and it would give them ample reason to play with a chip on their shoulder next season. It's a win-win.

QUOTE (Maxwell @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:01 PM) I don't know what's wrong with me, but I am actually starting to like this guy again. Probably because he's playing phenomenal defense at 3B and is currently having a halfway decent series at the plate. Given how bad Fields looked out there, I don't mind Juan so much right now, either.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 12:31 AM) I'm pretty surprised he is on this list. As am I. I tried to like Belle, but got a first-hand glimpse of what a selfish jerk he was. Back during the '98 season, I vacationed in Toronto with my family and we caught a couple of Sox games in the SkyDome. After the first game, Belle was waiting around in a chair in the lobby by himself. A kid who couldn't have been more than 10 or 12 walked up to him and asked for an autograph. He refused. Contrast that with Frank taking 10 seconds to sign my sister's jersey while literally running out the door. Or Ray Durham talking to my family at the hotel bar for a good 10 minutes. Or Herm Schneider talking to my family for a good 30 minutes. Belle was good, but not great in '97. He started off slow in '98 and then went on an absolute tear, resulting in the greatest single-player offensive season in Sox history. But the Sox didn't go anywhere with him and he left town for more money after that. And he was a jackass, to boot. JMO, but I don't see how he could be a "favorite" player. I'll take Juan Uribe over Albert Belle any day.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) I don't expect the Sox to eat all of the contract, which means we will see one to two solid prospects moved. I'm thinking the opposite. The Sox don't have much left in their farm system to move, but they do have money. And if Jose's contract is insured, the Sox will likely end up recouping at least half of it. Agreed. This might be a problem for the Sox. I don't see Broadway or Fields being dealt, either. The M's will have to settle for lower-level players. I don't understand all of the Washburn hatred here, either. His average ERA+ over the past three years is 94, which isn't exactly bad for a 5th starter. And with Sabathia not being an option and pretty much nobody ML-ready in our farm system either, we're going to need somebody to replace Jose next season. People here make a big deal about the $11 million or so left on his contract, but I think it's a pretty low-risk investment. It's a lot less than the $50 million or so that it'd take to sign a Jon Garland or a Gil Meche. And if the Sox get insurance money from Jose's injury, it's almost a moot point.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 07:27 PM) That's weird she was in Great White's video of "Here I go Again" Maybe because she is a redhead??? That's right, you have the correct song. My bad.