WCSox

QUOTE (PlunketChris @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 07:53 PM) JD has a strained groin If we're out of contention in late July, I want Thome dealt and JD moved to DH. He looks like he's going to break a leg every time he runs after a fly ball.

QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 08:44 PM) OMG Our pen has been bad vs the Yankees. Linebrink in particular hasn't been very good over the past week and a half or so.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 07:33 PM) Ramirez now in center , Uribe at 2nd and Swisher in right or left ? I like Uribe as a defensive sub.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) Throat stepping time. Latroy sucks. Keep padding the runs.

Yay!

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 06:28 PM) Maybe the worst culprit in terms of being pull happy is Thome. He hasn't hit an opposite field homer this season, and has grounded into the shift on a nightly basis. I thought that he hit one to right center, but perhaps I'm wrong. Ironically, Thome used to hit opposite-field jacks all of the time when he was with the Indians. IIRC, Charlie Manuel kept him in the minors longer than he had to, until Jim learned how to pull the ball.

Looking at the radar, it appears that it might be moving out in about an hour and a half. That would make for a 45 min or so rain delay. Unless the field is absolutely soaked, I imagine that they could get it in.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 03:35 PM) So there is nothing wrong with trading Paulie days before his rights vest-because they want to go in a different direction, Correct Yes, because "Frank's 2008 performance" was based on only 60 at-bats (and only about the last 40 were unproductive). No, I would probably suspect an ulterior motive in that case. But you're missing the point. I don't care WHY they would deal Paulie. I just want them to TREAT HIM PROFESSIONALLY. I'd rather that Kenny told Paulie "we're trading you because you're more valuable on the market now than as a 5-and-10 player" or simply "we want to get younger" than "we're trading you because you haven't hit well over the past two weeks, and therefore you're washed-up and won't be able to help us for the remainder of your contract."

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 01:22 PM) The premise was trading him days before his 5 and 10 rights vest. A lot of people on this board think not only is there nothing wrong with it, the White Sox should do it. For some reason, you're not wrapping your head around the idea that there's a right and a wrong way for an employer to treat an employee. If a GM wants to dump a player's salary or move him at a time when he's worth more as a FA, that's fine. But be honest about it. Don't disrespect an accomplished veteran by benching him "indefinitely" for some complete bullcrap reason, when it's obvious to everybody that the reason is to keep said player from reaching a vesting interest in his contract. So, no, I wouldn't have a problem with Kenny moving Paulie before his 5-and-10 rights vest, as long as he handles the situation professionally. Nor would I have had a problem with what Ricciardi/Gibbons did to Frank if they had been honest and treated him with some respect.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 01:23 PM) The question was in reference to wanting the Sox to take the same basic action at the Blue Jays did, when the vast majority feel that Toronto's actions were wrong. As I said earlier, that would depend on how the Sox handled it. If they told Paulie that they wanted to go in a different direction, that one be one thing. But if they made up some bullcrap excuse like "you haven't been hitting well over the past two weeks", then it would obviously reflect poorly on KW.

QUOTE (rangercal @ Apr 24, 2008 -> 08:52 AM) city water As far as tap water goes, Chicago's is by far the best I've ever had.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 08:23 PM) I have a feeling that there were a lot of Oakland A's players who were on performance enhancers in the past. No kidding. Giambi and Tejada weren't exactly positive clubhouse influences in that regard.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 10:19 PM) Pitching was the reason we lost this game. Yeah, Mussina's pitching. The guy who tops out at 87 mph and got hammered by the Red Sox last week. No doubt that Javy fell apart in the 6th inning, but his lineup didn't do crap for him until it was too late. You can't wait until the 7th and 8th innings to score runs, especially against a team that doesn't have any long relief.

It would suck for me being stuck at work tonight without a game to listen to.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 02:47 PM) Not every guy gets a signing bonus. Undrafted free agents might not. But just about everybody else does, including third-string journeymen. And some of the bonuses are enormous. Vick got $34.5 million up front in his last deal. Marvin Harrison got $22.5 million guaranteed at age 32 (when most receivers begin to decline).

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 03:41 PM) The NFL "cuts the cord" on guys due for bonuses all the time and the players don't get guaranteed contract money like they do in MLB. That's not considered unethical. That's standard NFL practices. What's the difference here? NFL players get massive signing bonuses. MLB players do not, and are also under the control of their original team for longer.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 02:23 PM) It doesn't answer the question. If the Sox were to dump Paulie RIGHT NOW and give the "lack of production" excuse then, yes, I would question Kenny's business practices, as well as his honesty. If Paulie were still hitting .190 in late July, and the Sox decided to move him, I might feel more inclined to consider Kenny an ethical businessman. This isn't about WHAT the Jays did, but HOW they did it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 12:11 PM) I asked the same basic question in the Bench Konerko thread, and no one really had an answer there either... Note that Paulie has been hitting about as badly as Frank over the past few weeks, yet Ozzie hasn't "indefinitely" benched him for lack of production, even with a much cheaper and ML-ready Josh Fields waiting patiently in AAA.

QUOTE (RME JICO @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 12:37 PM) Here is a really interesting article about pitchers who pitch a lot in one year (over 230IP) and never recover: http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=399816 Alex Fernandez, Pat Hentgen, Zito, Willis and Sabathia are all mentioned. Zito blurb: Mark threw 239 innings in '02, 230 in '03, and 245 in '04, and then managed to brilliantly pitch 260 total in '05. He (finally) lost velocity and got hammered in '06, but had a really nice bounce-back year in '07. Looks like a lot of it depends on the individual.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) Then it's not a platoon Depends which definition you use... I guess that I don't interpret it as strictly as you. And given that Juan has been horrible overall and worse against lefties this year, it doesn't really apply to his situation anyway. But I do agree that Uribe needs a day off here and there, whether it's Richar or Ramirez filling in for him at 2B. And on those days, I'd like to see Juan used as a defensive sub late in games.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 09:59 AM) And since it's very hard to pull off a platoon with 2 righties, we don't have a ton of options until Danny comes back from the DL. Not if the entire point is to get Uribe's bat out of the lineup to see what Alexi can do. You don't need a righty/lefty situation to give somebody else at-bats.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 06:12 AM) People b****ing about him like he blew yesterday's game is beyond ridiculous. He had a good game. Getting hits off Joba Chamberlain is not easy. Carlos Quentin whiffed with the bases loaded and 1 out, and not a peep. Uribe ties the game up earlier, and pops up with 2 out, and its bash Uribe time once again. I wonder who is going to be the whipping boy when Uribe is gone. Will you go back to Greg Walker? Wasn't it his fault according to you when certain players don't hit? While it's certainly true that Uribe hasn't hit worth a lick over the past 2+ seasons, he could've hit a slam off Chamberlain last night and people here would still rip him today. Uribe needs to be used in a platoon with Richar or Ramirez. But since he's far and away the best defensive 2nd baseman at our disposal, running him out of town is probably not the best course of action.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2008 -> 08:51 AM) A couple of things, remember the damage the white flag trade did for the White Sox? There were tumbleweeds in the stands before that happened and it hurt them for several years, even when they did well. The Blue Jays have a decent base. They drew more last season than the White Sox did in 2005 when they won it all. The White Flag Trade was nothing compared to the strike of '94. The Sox didn't even draw that well in '97, after throwing a ton of money at Albert Belle, because the season-ticket holders told JR & Co. to stick it after the strike. The Sox were still suffering from a poor season ticket base going into '05. But I'm not sure what this has to do with Toronto's situation. If you've ever been to Toronto, you've likely noticed that people there care a heck of a lot more about hockey than baseball. (Hell, they have CURLING on TV!) That's not to say that the Jays don't have a fan base at all, but it's not a very strong one. They're drawing now because they've renovated the stadium recently and they've spent a ton on free agents. But if they don't spend AND WIN, they're not going to sustain a $100 million payroll for much longer. The fans will stop buying tickets, just like they did back in the late 90's. It certainly didn't warrant an "indefinite" yank from the lineup. Didn't the guy on rollerskates hit three homers during the first week of the season? And I'm pretty sure that he put up an .850 OPS and 26 homers the previous year. I agree that he's sucked over the past two weeks, but you don't dump a player with a recent track record of success based on two bad weeks at the plate. There has to be an ulterior motive, and the guaranteed $10 million if Frank reaches 300-some at-bats this year sounds like a damn good one to me. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 02:31 PM) Maybe, but if he got hot like he was in Oakland, they would have a hard time with their fanbase sitting him. LOL, what fanbase? The Maple Leafs fans? When was the last time that the Jays ranked in the top half of the league in attendance? Players also tend to not get hot when they don't have the at-bats against live pitching. QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 07:10 PM) Show some concrete proof or shut up. It's getting really old. If you believe that 60 at-bats (three weeks) is a reasonable window to deem a "lack of production" (especially after a relatively solid first week), you must not be thinking clearly. That may explain the tone of your post.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 02:03 PM) His only chance at $10 million next year would have been to accept the role offered and perform at a high level forcing the Blue Jays to give him the ABs. It's pretty obvious that they Jays were not going to give him the at-bats, regardless of how he performed as part of a platoon. They were clearly forcing him out so that they wouldn't be on the hook for that $10 million.