WCSox

QUOTE (Chet Lemon @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 12:12 PM) I think Delgado would be a very nice fit for the DH role. If he's healthy and will agree to a reasonable one- or two-year deal. He's probably a more productive hitter than Thome at this point. But JT has already said that he'd like to come back and will probably be a lot cheaper.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 11:25 AM) Kids are going to copy athletes. If they have to copy the PED use, party lifestyle and onfield beanball-response scuffling.....then lets have them copy some of the more intellectual parts of life as well. What is "intellectual" about refusing to stand to honor America during the 7th inning stretch? I interpret that as selfishness and a lack of respect for rules at the workplace, which aren't exactly traits that I want to pass on to my children. No kidding that PED use, excessive partying, and beanballing are bad messages to send children. But that doesn't mean that non-compliance with workplace rules should be excused because the former transgressions are more ethically dubious. Wrong is wrong, no matter where it falls on the scale of poor ethical behavior. You're confusing two different scenarios here. MJ's "Republicans buy sneakers too" quote was in response to a push for him to support a Democrat for a Senate run. If MJ didn't like the way that Nike was doing business, he should've ended his relationship with them. That would've been much more professional (and effective) than speaking out against their practices while he was on their payroll. And what's wrong with that? It's MJ's life and he can do what he wants with it. A lot of the people who criticized him for "not being an agent for social change" were more interested in using him to push their own political agendas and further their own careers. I'm pretty sure that MJ saw right through that and resented the idea of being used in that way.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 11:15 AM) Most athletes would rather not be role models, but basically what society has told them is..the way you carry yourself does influence popular thought and the way kids view the world. So if we're saddling them with this, we have to be OK with them making a visible point about the things they believe in. Whereas what you and I do at work, making a spectacle, isnt having too large an impact. Most of us would be in agreement that they shouldnt be role models. But since they unfortunately have to be, I'd rather they do something they believe in and show they have a thought in their head besides party all night/hit ball during the day. I feel the same way about Jared Allen and political comments he makes in the media, even though I'm on a different side than what his views are. I completely disagree with this. Players can be activists in their free time, but they need to knock it off and act like professionals while they're at work. Baseball is a business that caters to a very socially and politically diverse clientele. Players who alienate large portions of their fan base will cost their employers money. And that's unacceptable.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 11:04 AM) I believe that act was more to point at the unjustness of the U.S. involvement in the Iraq war, as opposed to just general anti-Americanism. Again, you're at work to work, not to draw attention to yourself and to anger your employer's clientele. My employer supports affirmative action, which I consider to be institutionalized discrimination. Yet, I check those beliefs at the door every morning. QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ Dec 20, 2009 -> 11:04 AM) ... just not enough to feel he deserves an equal opportunity at employment. This is a really dumb response.

Delgado pissed off a lot of people in New York when he refused to stand for the playing of "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch. I'm not sure that I'd want somebody like that on my team. I respect his personal beliefs and all, but he needs to act like a professional and check those beliefs at the door when he shows up to work. The fact that he'll be 38 next year and is coming off of a season-ending injury makes me want him even less.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 01:55 PM) Might be the best thing to happen for Bradley. He'll be a saint in the Griffey clubhouse. Got a couple brothers there to talk to as well. Can't see a downfall to this deal at all for the Mariners. Why would Bradley suddenly behave like a sane human being in Seattle's clubhouse? Seattle's most likely going to have the same problems with Bradley that seven other teams have had. But unlike Silva, they may actually get some production out of Bradley before he alienates everybody in Seattle.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 02:29 PM) That wasn't really a dead arm period so much as it was scouting reports catching up to him and his pitches being underdeveloped/ineffective. Are you sure about that? His pitches were plenty effective and developed in April and May, so that doesn't make much sense to me. Unless he developed bad mechanics towards the summer. The dead arm explanation is something that I've read here multiple times, but I don't have any first-hand knowledge of the situation. If I'm wrong, so be it.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 01:37 PM) Nowhere near? Hudson threw 165.3 innings last year. It's not out of the question. Hudson is also only 22 years old. Danks was of similar age in 2007 and, despite throwing 156 and 140 innings in the minors over the previous two years, he went through a dead arm period in late 2007 and was so ineffective that they shut him down. I imagine that Hudson would experience similar fatigue issues if he were asked to throw 190+ innings next year.

Hudson's arm is also nowhere near conditioned to throw a full 190+ inning season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 09:12 AM) Blalock hasn't had a good full season since 2004. Once again, I would prefer Thome on a short-term deal to Blalock. This

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 10:00 AM) My problem with that idea is...Nix appeared to be awful at defense from the left side of the diamond when he was used there. He committed a number of errors for sure. I think that he'll be able to work that out eventually and don't have a problem with him in a utility role, but that's JMO.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 09:10 AM) I have a similiar problem (but to a lesser extent) with the notion of Nix DH'ing. I doubt he makes the 25-man, but if does get the last spot on the bench, he has no reason to start at DH over anyone on the team. Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor.

QUOTE (League @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 09:44 AM) the Mariners just got Bradley Has this been confirmed?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 07:59 AM) Congrats Rock on making this place damontalk.com for the next day or so. I also can't see Ozzie not having Pierre leadoff. If anything, Damon would be batting 3rd. For the amount of money he's likely asking for, you might be better off going after more of a slugging type of outfielder (and I know Damon hit a lot of homers last year, but that park was perfect for him). I'd love to have Damon lead off and play DH. That said, he's out of our budget.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) Oh, I agree. I'm not sympathizing with Cabrera here. All I am saying is that what the Sox did in regards to him last year was exploiting the rule in a manner which was not really envisioned when the rule was created. Due to the current economic conditions and by extension, the value of pre-arb players and draft picks has increased to a point which is higher than envisioned when the FA rule was created (at least in my opinion - obviously I wasn't there when it was). FA's should not be penalized in the marketplace such that it actually diminishes their ability to sign a lucrative contract. I see what you're saying, but the market isn't going to be favorable to free agents 100% of the time, nor should that be expected in a free market system. Especially considering how salaries exploded during the '90s. Free agents got theirs back then, thanks to the MLBPA screaming bloody murder whenever a salary cap was brought up during CBA negotiations. Not that the owners are without culpability (*cough* collusion *cough*), but given their contentious history with the MLBPA, it should be expected that a franchise will use a severe recession to its economic advantage. That's just the cost of doing business. That said, I have no problem with setting a rookie salary cap to protect veteran salaries. But as long as the MLBPA does, aging vets with diminishing skills like Cabrera are going to get the short end of the stick every once in a while. QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 07:29 PM) Terrero actually had some pretty insane tools. Big power, speed, big arm...he just couldn't hit major league pitching with any kind of consistency. Yep, Terrero was hitting the snot out of the ball when he came up in '07. I saw him absolutely swat a pitch over the left field wall at Safeco. I don't think that the ball was even on its downslope by the time that it hit the seats.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 05:04 PM) I agree with the first two points. To your last point, I said it was borderline unethical. If Cabrera accepts arbitration, and the White Sox do indeed bench him, you don't think that it could have rather large ramifications on the guy's career? Given how much money these players make and the pension/health care plans that they get, it's difficult for me to get upset at an organization for playing hardball with them on occasion.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 04:45 PM) You know, I agree with most of this. But I'm not giving Ozzie, or even KW, a free lifetime pass for 2005 (not that it matters what the hell I think). With this rotation in place, there's no excuses. I figure 90 games will be what it takes to win this division. If we can't do that, somebody has or should take the fall. Of course nobody gets a lifetime pass, or anything close to it. That said, I don't see why Ozzie or Kenny should be pushed out the door just yet (especially the latter, who is definitely in the top third of GMs in the league). While Greg Walker might be a different story, Ozzie and Kenny aren't the reasons why the Sox missed the playoffs in '07 and '09. One of the problems with setting a bar of "90 wins or else" in December is that we all have a rather crude idea of how things will shake out in the Central this year. Could anybody have predicted that the Wild Card would come out of the Central in '06, but that the defending champs would win 90 games and still miss the playoffs? What if the Central is mediocre, but Mark tears his labrum, Peavy takes a line drive to the face, and CQ separates his shoulder? A lot can happen in the next 9 1/2 months.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 08:09 AM) just like Panic! at the disco you guys need to stop being emo, ya i went there "Hang the DJ, hang the DJ!"

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) I already admitted that my original post in this thread was knee-jerk. Ozzie can just really get on your nerves at times. I will say this much...2010 should be a put up or shut up type year for him. 2005 was wonderful and will never forget. But we're a Rick Hahn's son coin flip away from missing the playoffs 4 years in a row. With the team we have in place now, even if it's flawed, there's no reason (outside of crippling injuries) that we shouldn't take the central. NONE. People tend to over-value the contribution of a manager to a team's success. This isn't the NFL, where offensive and defensive schemes make all of the difference. Baseball mangers don't coach, they manage... pitch counts, egos, etc. They fill out the lineup card, sit in the dugout, eat sunflower seeds, pull the starter when he's out of gas, and talk to the media afterwards. If it's a really important game, they might talk to Joe Buck in the 5th inning. Managers are primarily leaders and motivators. A good pitching coach (Don Cooper, Dave Duncan, Mel Stottlemyre, Leo Mazzone) will help a team win a lot more games than a good manager. If you want to point fingers, point them at the declining, injury-prone veterans who didn't get it done in 2007 and 2009.

QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 02:25 PM) Garland= #2 in White Sox wins over the decade. That has to do more with the length of his tenure in Chicago than his performance. Outside of 2005, Garland has been a very average pitcher.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 11:12 AM) Well, I'll agree to disagree. I think LA/Anaheim is a more attractive option for most free agents than the South Side, and in Matsui's case, there is a far bigger asian population in SoCal than in Chicago. I think all things being even, he would have chosen LA over here 10 times out of 10. So Cal pretty much destroys Chicago in terms of lifestyle as well. Much better climate, much more scenic, and more to do in general. The biggest negative about So Cal is cost of living, and that matters a lot less when you have tens of millions in the bank.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) i liked crede as a person....but i agree with you in some regards...by far the most overrated player of the decade IMO In some ways, but he was clearly an impact player and his contributions in late 2005 are legendary. Speaking of overrated, I don't understand why Garland was on this list. He was a decent pitcher and all, but only had one really good year. I'd put Freddy on that list before him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 12:32 PM) Alexei Ramirez in the 2 hole last season... .281/.343/.422/.765 That looks like plate discipline and a bit of power. I'd be perfectly fine with that in the 2-hole. I also don't think people realize that Ramirez walked 49 times last year. He wasn't that undisciplined. While Alexei's power numbers went down last year, his walks and OBP improved significantly. I wouldn't mind him in the two-hole at all.

Quentin is too valuable to hit 6th. If he's not playing through an injury, he's a #3 or #4 hitter. I also don't see Rios as a #3 hitter, especially after the turd he laid last season. This is what's I'd put out there on opening day, although I'm sure that Ozzie disagrees... 1. Pierre, LF 2. Rios, CF 3. Beckham, 2B 4. Quentin, RF 5. Konerko, 1B 6. Pierzynski, C 7. Ramirez, SS 8. Kotsay/Jones, DH 9. Teahen, 3B If Rios continues to suck at the plate, he flip-flops with Alexei.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 09:24 AM) My guess would be that, if they sign a DH, it would be on a year deal If Kenny had signed Thome and not traded for Pierre, I think that DeRosa in RF would've rounded out the lineup nicely. But right now, I think it's a lot more likely that Kenny would go after somebody like Thome or Dunn as a one-year rental at DH (the former being much more likely).