WCSox

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 10:53 AM) If he's healthy, let him pitch. If anything it will keep the rust off of him and let him begin to get acclimated to the American League. I don't believe in shutting guys down just because. If the ankle's healthy and Peavy's ready, he should be pitching. Yeah, hopefully his pitching elbow is healthy after taking that line drive the other day. If the Sox are out of it, I could see giving him a start or two in September, but there's no reason to run the guy out there every fifth day when the team is mathematically eliminated and there's nothing to gain from it. Running Peavy out there like you're still in a pennant race may sell tickets but if he gets hurt out there, you'll look pretty foolish. You're better off giving those starts to guys like Hudson and Torres. Heck, I'd even be willing to give Garcia more work, to see if he might be a #5 option next year. I'd also be for shutting down Danks (who threw a lot more innings than usual last year) and Buehrle (who has a gazillion innings on his arm and has sucked for the past month or so).

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 10:30 AM) Ozzie does a tremendous job handling his players and he's really awesome at handling starting pitchers and I actually think he's pretty good at handling the pen as well. Plenty will b**** at me for saying that, but when every guy you trot out gets lit up (excluding Thornton), how the hell is it Ozzie's fault? I don't want to see a Bobby Cox-like dynasty with Ozzie at the helm, but it's the players that aren't producing. This isn't the NFL, where the better coaches and coordinators "outsmart" the inferior ones. The Sox are sucking right now because the players aren't getting it done on the field, not because Ozzie isn't getting it done in the dugout or because Greg Walker isn't getting it done during pre-game BP.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) There is absolutely no reason to shut Peavy down just to shut him down. Its not some sort of arm injury where over use may hurt him. So unless the Sox are statistically eliminated you might as well have him pitch. If the Sox are statistically eliminated, I'd limit him to bullpen sessions and would also shut down a couple of other starters. There's no point in fielding your best team after you've been eliminated. Hell, Peavy just took a line drive to his pitching elbow in a rehab start. Why subject highly-paid veterans to more injuries when you're no longer playing for anything?

I'd rather put Contreras, Dye, Linebrink, and Pena on notice. Dotel hasn't exactly torn it up this season either. This team is full of overpaid veterans whose production doesn't match their salaries. Thankfully, their will be a house-cleaning this winter.

I'm wondering if this is a stalling tactic. If the Sox only win one or two games on this road trip (which is looking very possible right now), they might decide to just shut Peavy down for the season.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 08:49 PM) The idea is to win the game, not play with a new toy. A rookie making a debut against Kansas City would be nervous. Against ARod,Jeter, Texiera, etc, in Yankee Stadium in a must win game is not how you break guys in. Maybe in the long run it won't hurt him, but it certainly is not going to help him or the White Sox. Sadly, Hudson gives us a better chance to win than Contreras or Torres. I'm not strongly advocating that Hudson gets the start, but if we need a win that badly to stay alive, it's worth considering.

QUOTE (TitoMB345 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 08:35 AM) Right, cause we can really afford another few weeks with our #3 (although not last night) hitter hitting under .200.. Actually, you're right. The season is over anyways. Let him hit his way out of the slump, no matter what the cost. I'm glad to see that Ozzie finally moved him down in the lineup. I'd definitely give him more days off than usual, but benching a recently very-productive veteran like Dye permanently is tough to do. Further complicating matters is the fact that Kotsay isn't much of an improvement. The Sox are going to live or die with Thome, Dye, and Konerko. They either start playing NOW, or they'll be watching the playoffs from their couches.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 08:39 AM) Nolan Riemond from Baltamore is a young OF that has a HUGE ceiling. That seems to be what KW is searching for. Baltamore needs a SS as well. Michael Bourn from Houston would be a long shot but KW can put together a hell of a package including Alexie. David DeJesus from KC has always been an intruiging name. I'm not sure if i would give up Alexie for him though. Juan Pierre from LA. Fathom mentioned this before i believe. Trade our bad contract of Linebrink, for their bad contract of Pierre. There is no way i trade Alexie for Pierre. I'm just throwing some names out there. My fav would be Bourn. But KW would have to give up an aweful lot for that guy. So if we deal Alexei, who plays SS? Please don't say Nix, who's been an absolute butcher there. Not sure that I'd want to move Beckham from 3B at this point.

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 05:47 AM) When shaking up a team, the position I look at last is a veteran catcher who the staff likes. I'd keep trotting AJ out their until his wheels fall off. But I like old catchers and young closers. Walks on the beach and lying in a tent on a cool morning feeling the world wake up. QUOTE (nastymasty21 @ Aug 27, 2009 -> 06:06 AM) AJ is our only good hitter one of our few good hitters along with beckham. Hes hitting .316 with 13 hrs. Not many catchers put up those numbers in the American league. There are definitely other guys to point the finger at before AJ. ^^^

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 09:36 PM) I don't think the acquisition of Rios ALONE means that Dye is gone, but the sum of a few different factors, all of which have been repeated over and over on this site. Again, Rios was brought in to play CF. There is no pressing need to move Quentin to RF because the Sox don't have a viable long-term option at LF right now. The acquisition of Rios will have no impact on Dye, and your argument that it will doesn't make any sense. What WILL have an impact on Dye's future with the Sox is the following: 1. Dye's contract is up and the end of this season and he'll most likely want a multi-year deal 2. Dye will be 36 in January 3. Dye has been in a massive slump for a month and a half and he's currently sporting a very average .825 OPS 4. Dye's defense has degraded to the point where he should be relegated to DH 5. Thome is sporting an .883 OPS 6. Thome bats left-handed 7. Thome will be more open to signing a one-year deal for less guaranteed money than Dye

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 09:23 PM) Quentin is a natural RF, and LF is usually where you stick the worst defender (the easiest to fill). That's not really true. LF and RF require different skill sets. LF demands more speed, but less arm strength. RF demands the opposite. This is why guys like Johnny Damon and Juan Pierre play LF and guys like JD and Vlad Guerrero play RF. Quentin is somewhere in between and can play either competently. Yes, but that has nothing to do with Rios. Kenny isn't over-paying Rios to play a corner OF position.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 07:51 PM) Nope. A hitting coach is a cliche. He's the whipping boy for when things are going bad. A good hitting coach makes available tapes, extra BP, talking things over with hitters. I've always been shocked at those who put a lot of stock in a hitting coach. Name me the good hitting coaches in baseball. It's all cliche. Our hitters suck because they suck. I wouldn't mind bringing in somebody different next season, as this team just doesn't seem to be responding to him. Perhaps they'd benefit from a different instructor with a different approach. That said, I agree that the vast majority of the blame goes onto the players. Some of the guys that we're paying $10+ million a year just aren't that good anymore. It's the younger guys (Quentin, Beckham, A.J., Pods... and those last two aren't exactly spring chickens) who are producing right now.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) yep, I'm sure our lineup full of veteran hitters and great hitting youngsters know absolutely nothing about baseball an blindly follow what Walker says. I'm sure that Walker also controls how fast our aging sluggers swing their bats. Seriously, when the core of a team's lineup is on the down-slope of their careers, is it any wonder that they can't score consistently?

Can I revise my prediction to 3-7?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 06:48 PM) Yes, but having the viable CF for next year basically destroyed any use for Dye in 2010. Quentin now slots over to RF and, since the new acquisition is also right-handed, there's a need for a lefty power bat. That leaves Thome in and Dye out. Huh? Why does Quentin have to move to RF, when there's nobody to take his place in LF? (Unless you consider Pods an option for next year. I don't.) Rios being right-handed also has nothing to do with JD's 2010 status. His contract and play down the stretch this year do.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 04:29 PM) We can take solace in the fact it's due to a fluke occurrence and it's not conditioning or existing injury related. +1 I wouldn't mind throwing Hudson out there, out of desperation at this point. Torres got away with a lot of bad pitches in his first start and got hit hard in his second.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) Do your job well and you wouldn't have this problem. I'm glad he didn't decide to say something stupid, though. Rios was brought in to play CF, not RF.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 06:28 PM) I think most people recognize the range argument but can't consider a guy "excellent" defensively when he makes so many mistakes. Kenny didn't see things that way with Jose Valentin, either.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 26, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) Everyone knows whats at stake. For guys like Pods, Thome and Dye- this may be their final run with us. The time is now for them to step up. In 2004 when we fell short of the playoffs, KW used his imagination to the extreme! Let Maggs and Valentin walk via free agency. Trade Lee for Pods, Vizciano. Sign Dye, El-duque, AJ, Hermanson and Iguchi. And prior to 2004 ending KW aqcuired Contreras, Everett and Garcia via midseason trades. This year KW aqcuired Peavy, Rios and Pena via midseason trades. Will he let Dye, Thome, Dotel and Contreras walk via free agency? What big name will he trade similar to Lee? What free agents will he sign? Maybe missing the playoffs in 2009 (although would suck) maybe a blessing in disguise. Interesting... Contreras and Dotel are definitely gone. Unless Dye really goes on a tear, my guess is that he's gone as well. I don't see Pods returning either. Thome has a decent shot at being re-signed on the cheap. I think that A.J. is safe for one more year. Besides being another left-handed bat, he brings a ton of intangibles to this team and I don't think that they're ready to go with Flowers full-time yet. I also agree with Kenny's comments. He must be more frustrated than Soxtalk, which is pretty difficult to imagine.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 03:40 PM) In baseball, sometimes small sample sizes is all you have. If Nix wants to keep the starting spot, he needs to "steal" it by making it impossible for Ozzie to go back to the status quo when Getz is back. His power was on display this month (3 HRs, 2 2Bs), but so was his defense (in a bad way - 3 errors this month). For a guy that is supposed to bring so much with his glove, he's been disappointing this month. True, but my point is that people in this thread really jumped the gun on Nix with a limited amount of data.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) Slumping, ha! Perhaps this is news to you, but you can't treat human beings the in same way that you treat the theoretical players on your fantasy team.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) Nix isn't exactly shining in his "full-time" opportunity right now. He's being exposed offensively, and he continues to make big mistakes on defense regardless of what the defensive stats say about his runs saved. Yet another example of why drawing conclusions from small samples sizes is a bad idea.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 03:24 PM) My issue here is, sure, proven veteran deserve to hit out of slumps; but they shouldn't be hitting out of slumps at spots in the order where production is crucial, such as the third or fourth. With Dye, especially, it's inexcusable that after 100+ ABs of sub .200, sub .600 ops production out of our #3 hitter he was finally moved. If these guys are grown men, surely they understand that when you're not producing (and not just over a week, but a month), you should be moved down in the lineup. I agree with this. There's no way that JD should still be hitting 3rd.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 01:00 PM) Fine, we can keep being pussies and allowing our players to perform like utter s*** with absolutely no consequence. We can't move a guy out of the third spot in the order because it would offend him. We can't take a guy out of the rotation until he becomes a complete embarrassment. I've argued here several times that JD should be moved down in the order, and have no problem whatsoever moving Jose to the 'pen. That's a hell of a lot different than DFAing them. Jose and JD have both performed extremely well at times this year (and Jose worked his ass off to be able to pitch again back in March), so the argument that they're not earning their paychecks is dubious at best. Both are also under contract for only a month and a half longer, so I don't see what the point of your rant is. Again, releasing players because they're slumping and you're pissed off is juvenile and counter-productive.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 09:50 AM) ^^^ Ahh the most practical post of the day. When most of Soxtalk reeks of emotion, we have WCSox to smack us with that. Good post dude. Thanks. QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Aug 25, 2009 -> 10:21 AM) You are so right. Contreras is a veteran who has contributed much to this organization. You don't throw him under the bus as a statement. Hearing some comments from Ozzie and also others in the organization it makes you wonder if Jose didn't get rushed back from his injury rehab. He is a proud fellow and can obviously be dominant when right, but my guess is this is his last season with the Sox. Even if the rosters didn't expand in seven days, Jose is off the payroll in a month and a half. DFAing him right now would be absolutely pointless. You don't DFA players to "send a message." Especially a player who worked his ass off this past winter to come back early from a career-threatening injury. Once you go down that road, say goodbye to ever being able to trade for a Jim Thome or Jake Peavy again. Those guys will want no part of an organization that treats its players like garbage, and will reject trades to the Sox faster than you can say "no-trade clause."