StrangeSox

I'm cool with the catapult solution for this one

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 11:21 AM) The black humor in some of this is staggering. This is not photoshopped

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) That's entirely possible, but PSU doesn't need to remove people based on the assumption that will happen. On that one, they have time to wait. If PSU knows, however, better to clean house in one move instead of person-by-person as details emerge.

But wait, I thought liberals controlled the entire media

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 11, 2011 -> 08:37 AM) I don't understand why if that's the case (and it might not be, I realize this) why was it not enough for Paterno to tell his superiors and have McQueary work with his superiors? Maybe it becomes like the 1998 incident, where it's incredibly inappropriate, but not to the level of criminal (and yes, I know Paterno admitted to hearing about fondling, but maybe the AD and VP told him, no no, McQueary was wrong, he was mistaken). I mean who the f*** knows, and that's the point. If Paterno is getting lied to and told everything is ok, nothing criminal happened, why should Paterno be expected to continue to follow up? For all we know Paterno followed up with McQueary, who also lied about it to him (After all, despite knowing what he saw, and despite knowing what kind of lame punishment Sandusky got, HE NEVER REPORTED ANYTHING TO ANYONE AGAIN). The problem I have with this is that it doesn't add up. Why would Paterno keep someone whom who believed falsely accused a friend of child molestation on the staff?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 06:53 PM) Milk, I don't deny the entire thing is one big clusterf*** of failings on the part of multiple people within multiple different organizations, including the football program, the University, the campus police, the local police, the DA, the charity, and on and on and on. I guess I just don't find Paterno to be particularly high up on that list, considering the circumstances. Everyone can disagree with me as much as they want. I really don't have the time, nor the strength to argue about it anymore. I've already wasted the entire day. How many times have I said this exact thing to you?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) So you can see why the police wouldnt investigate further into something weird, but you cant see why Joe Paterno wouldnt further investigate into something weird? Its become that Paterno should have done more than the police at this point, who are trained to identify this type of stuff. And Id like to say its been a pleasure to read Jenks and Iamshack. I know Milkman wants to lump us together, but the reality is that there are many times we have not agreed. Thats what happens when you think independently as opposed to believing what you read in the newspaper. Its so easy to just blindly believe. lol

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:27 PM) Yes. I'm sorry, I consider that molesting. I guess I use that term a bit loosely in this thread then. Yeah that's a bit different, I blocked a lot of this from my mind. Did he admit to doing this, or only to showering with the kid?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) He said he deserved to die for it. I don't think there was much confusion as to what was going on... It's still a different scenario, and you can't use it to hand-wave away claims that Paterno's influence could have guaranteed a proper investigation. That is a fair and accurate correction.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) Did the police not eavesdrop on Sandusky confessing to showering with the boy? Which is significantly different from Sandusky fondling or raping a boy, especially when coupled with past accusations of impropriety coming from a very influential man who was also a close friend.

QUOTE (Kid Gleason @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) Somebody on another board I go to, who works at Penn, says this is about to get MUCH worse. Take that for what it is worth. Which isn't much. But ya know, might want to brace ourselves for some uber-ugliness. I honestly hope that it does not but expect that it will.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:08 PM) lol. No, I just think she brings up some interesting points. Looks pretty shady all around. Axelrod working his chicago politics magic. "Brings up interesting points" and Coulter [she] should never be used in the same sentence. That article is awful conspiracy theory crap with massive logic failures every other sentence. What the dumb talking heads and the Cain campaign keep saying, "anonymous accusations!" and what really happened, two settled cases with NDA's forcing these people to remain anonymous plus 3 additional claims of impropriety, are two completely different things. LOL she accuses the Trib of being part of the Democrat Machine. Please tell me you don't regularly read anything by her. The whole thing is basically one big non sequitor.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 05:03 PM) As the Grand Jury report reads, he didn't say he molested him. In retrospect, it clearly was molesting because of all of the other things he's done. But that story was about showering at adjoining shower heads with the boy and, I believe, picking him up at one point while both were naked in the shower. Yes, that sounds incredibly strange and, given the rest of the knowledge we have about Sandusky since then, it was another attempt at rape. But at the time, it could have seemed like a really stupid mistake, albeit incredibly inappropriate and weird. right, that's why I was asking if the police were informed of the 2002 incident, because that's much, much worse than the 98 one.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:50 PM) Well most of the people passing judgment on Paterno in this thread are doing so with the belief that he could have stopped the victims molested after 2002 from having their lives ruined by Sandusky. And yet, it doesn't appear that the local police or DA were too interested in preventing it. Right, because I'm being charitable in assuming that PSU did not cover up the 1998 incident. If that is what happened, that doesn't exonerate Paterno. That damns everyone involved .

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:47 PM) No, my argument is that Paterno is an elderly old man who can hardly remember the name of his quarterback let alone arrange some campus-wide coverup, or go chasing Sandusky around a campus of 44,000 students. He doesn't need to do either of those things. He can pick up a phone, call the police or PSU admin and tell them "investigate this, now." And he can follow up. He still held lots of sway until last week and people still listened to what he said. If he came to the media with these allegations of being stonewalled by PSU, they'd listen. I do not think that Paterno was "calling the shots" and already said so. I clarified my statement since you took issue with calling him powerful. If he was still very influential, then your point is moot; he could use his influence to make sure a proper investigation was performed.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) They were informed 4 years earlier about another incident. THEY could have ended it there, without any of Paterno's additional input. But the fact is, even when the cops are involved, and the DA has been notified (of the 2002 incident) NOTHING f***ING HAPPENED. So no, you cannot say with certainty that Paterno's notification to the police would have resulted any differently here. Now, whether Paterno could have used other means to get this s*** out, that's another issue. And he certainly could have told Sandusky to get the f*** out even if the police/university didn't. Paterno is an influential and famous man. "Investigate this case or I'm calling SI" means this case gets investigated and doesn't get stonewalled by PSU, if we assume that's what happened. And yeah, again, for the 11.4 trillionth time, Paterno's one guy in a long list of fail. When was the DA been notified of 2002 incident?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) No but this was interesting: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47438 And yes, it's Coulter, but it does put this whole incident into a very interesting context. Jesus christ, you think that artucle helps your point?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:40 PM) First of all, please don't insert your own commentary into my posts when replying to them in this thread. It's all fun and games in the less serious threads, but please don't do it in this one. Secondly, I'm not sure how you absolutely think anything in this mess. Reportedly, everyone in the entire administration, including the President of the University didn't do jack s*** about this guy being on campus, and around children while he was on campus. So how suddenly we can be absolutely sure Paterno asking that he be removed, when it was already pretty evident that Paterno wanted absolutely nothing to do with the guy already, would have accomplished much of anything in this cesspool of incompetence, I'm just not understanding. Because Paterno is immensely influence at PSU

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) You've just heard a story about a major educational institution completely ignoring routine protocol as part of a blatant cover-up (including the campus police, which i'm sure has the same force and authority under the law as city, county or state police), and yet you're now going to assume that telling the cop*s will end in this guys arrest? You know the DA that was informed about this did absolutely nothing too right? I'm going to assume that one of the most influential men at PSU telling the cops to investigate this negates a PSU cover-up. Also, I'm not aware that the police were informed of the 2002 incident, but I may be wrong.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:36 PM) Why don't you finally answer how you know for sure that Paterno reporting anything to the police is going to result in Sandusky going to jail when the police heard Sandusky admit to molesting a child and the DA did not prosecute him? Would you please answer this? I've asked you several times now. I have, and you've claimed that Paterno did not hold significant influence as PSU because he doesn't use email or facebook. If Paterno holds influence and he wants this investigated, then it will be investigated. Paterno holds influence, but he didn't want it investigated. I'm also intentionally leaving out the possibility that PSU blocked the 1998 investigation because that is speculation right now, but it is a possibility.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:31 PM) And you say that I am deflecting. Do you deny that the police were aware of Sandusky's actions themselves, right from his own mouth, and did not prosecute him, and yet you expect me to believe Paterno is the one that should have done more? Not "the" but "a", yes. Someone else's failings doesn't excuse your own. Your email defense is pretty absurd. Clearly we're discussing the man's influence to get things done. We don't know why the police stopped short of charges in 1998. The police were not aware of the 2002 incident. Someone with the influence that Joe Paterno holds could have asked for an investigation. Even if you do everything you can and it's not enough, you at least tried. Instead, Joe does the bare minimum and lets others sweep it under the rug. That's unquestionable at this point, and it is indefensible.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) You asked where the logical flaw in your conclusion was; unfortunately all your premises were inaccurate. This nonsensical technical bulls*** that you and Balta always bring to the table is far more deserving of a smug emoticon than me telling Steve to take a logics class. My point was that you shouldn't be such a dick to others about "take a logics class" and then fail a basic example. You want to go through the premises one by one, I'm game. Sure I can, if Paterno reports this to the police, I can safely assume he's going to jail, where he won't have access to children and PSU. All of those people failing are necessary conditions. People are focusing on Paterno because some people are still defending him sitting in child fondling allegations for almost a decade, but everyone in this thread has expressed the opinion that PSU needs to "clean house" and I've personally said that Paterno is near the back of the line here.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) So just because people use Facebook to talk about sports instead of using a sports forum, they are morons? Do you not have a Facebook, or do you only thing others are morons for using it, but no, not you? I think facebook comment threads, like news article threads or youtube threads, are the dumbest of the dumb for internet discussions. That doesn't make facebook or news articles or youtube or anyone who uses those things dumb.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) I guess I am a fool then. Because I don't believe it. I'm sorry, but powerful men that run Universities have cell phones and email accounts. They are very important people that communicate with a vast array of subordinates and carry out complex endgames. Presidents don't have emails. Powerful as in "holds influence," not that he runs the entire show. Do you deny that Paterno was one of the most influential people in State College, and that people would do what he asked of them?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Nov 10, 2011 -> 04:14 PM) I wasn't making a big deal out of it, just saying that I don't think you can say definitely that he was notified that Sandusky had raped a kid. At the minimum, he was informed of fondling. I don't think "oh, he only knew it was fondling, not rape!" is a good defense.