StrangeSox

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:25 PM) Look, this all started when Steve came out of nowhere and said I hate gay people. That's just not true. If I did, I'd say it. You'd be ashamed of your child for life. That's pretty hateful.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) I'm not making excuses for him, i'm saying that what he says is probably factually true, though for different reasons. It comes across as a weak justification for what he's saying. If you want to make that point it'd look better not coming off of something he's said, though I'd still say it's the wrong viewpoint to have.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) No, just in my case that there's a time and place for everything. Any gay sex going down would not be the time or place for me. I'd have to go to a movie or another friend's house or something until they were done. Would this apply to straight roommates? What if you didn't hear them? Or is it just the thought that it could be or is happening? eta I don't want to hear or see gay sex either, that's not the issue here.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) The funny part is that whenever my wife and I discuss having a child and when that will happen, the last thing on our minds is the worry of whether said child would be homosexual. It saddens me that some people are still so close-minded. 100% of parents should want their child to be born into a world that allows them to be themselves without discrimination or hate. I will not hope for a gay or straight child, I will work for a society that accepts both equally.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:16 PM) Well, i think he said 99% of men wouldn't want to have gay sons. I dunno that he claimed that that's because of how gross being gay is, though that's clearly his opinion. You can't just randomly cleave apart what he's saying to make half-assed excuses for his bigotry.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:13 PM) Well, anything Batman is amazing. We estimate there are zero other people in the world who can claim that.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:11 PM) 99% is probably high, but I bet if you did a poll the vast, vast majority would agree that they would hope that their kid was not gay, regardless of their views on homosexuality and regardless of how they think they'd act as a parent in that situation. Fact of the matter is that life is incredibly difficult and parents (or people who want to be parents) want their kids to live the easiest life possible. You're switching what's being discussed here, though. He's not saying "I wouldn't want my kid to be gay because he'd have to deal with bigoted assholes and would have a harder life," he's saying it because he'd be ashamed and disgusted. Which is part of the problem of gays having to deal with bigoted assholes.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:09 PM) I really hope you do live with a gay person J4L, you'd probably soon be on our side. Plus you'd probably go to a lot of fun parties. I spent the night before my wedding with my fiance and brother at a Batman-themed drag show in San Juan, everyone else was jealous we didn't wake them to go!

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:07 PM) If you or anybody else were able to accept it, good for you. I'm not going to vilify those that would have it, or think they would have it, in them to do that. I couldn't do it. Therefore, you have a very serious problem with homosexuality. Stop lying to yourself and maybe you could learn to overcome it.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) I don't know what's hard to understand. I'm not saying that gays just jump each other's bones in front of anybody and everybody. I was just creating a scenario in which I hypothetically lived with a gay guy. I would have to expect that he would bring guys home or have a BF and do what people in relationships do. All I'm saying is I couldn't be there while this was taking place. It doesn't have to be right in front of me. That doesn't make me anti-gay. Not wanting to overhear gay sex doesn't make you anti-gay. It's the rest of your posts and the way you're characterizing homosexuality and homosexuals that do.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:58 AM) And you're naive if you don't think 99% of fathers or future fathers don't agree with me. I just come out and say it without trying to look like a nice guy. If I came home one day and saw my 6-year old son kissing another 6-year old boy, I'd go f***ing apes***. I'm not going to try to be understanding. I'm gonna be like WTF is going on and attempt to put an end to it immediately. Anybody who disagrees, I'm going to pull a Balta, you're lying to me and yourself. You're going to have to back that 99% up, though I'd break up 6 yo's kissing too regardless of gender. You're going to scare your child and teach them to be afraid of being themselves. It'll result in a lot of emotional issues and they won't have their family to work it out with. Again, I'll confidently say it was never, ever an issue that my brother was gay with my family. There was no big "coming out" discussion.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) Strange, you seem to have selective reading comprehension. At no point did I suggest that people should stay in the closet. If that's who you are, fine. Sorry, pronouns unclear here, I was referring to FlySox who said he'd want his son to stay in the closet rather than shaming him.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:47 AM) Discrimination requires an act. Otherwise it's just an opinion. What about people that find homosexuality a sin and totally wrong, yet they don't believe in discrimination or inequality, etc. Still bigotry/discrimination? Thinking is an act. Holding views that homosexuality is shameful and totally wrong are going to shape your views on public policy re gay rights and social acceptance of homosexuality. This is what I was getting at with the ridiculous "round them up" standard for discrimination. Discrimination can be subtle, even subconscious but still pervasive and powerful. Regardless of your broader (and meaningful) question, he still advocated for gays, or at least his own child, staying in the closet to prevent shaming their parents. I can't imagine a definition of discrimination that doesn't include that.

We could just wait for him to explain his stances on DADT, DOMA, gay equality/anti-discrimination laws and gay marriage rights, though.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:38 AM) So whenever you think something is wrong you're automatically discriminating? Really? It's that black and white? Uh, yeah, when you think an entire minority population is morally inferior because of who they are, that's discrimination.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) And I should make it clear that I don't agree with his opinions (in this thread and others). But as I've said in other threads, I feel like the dude is the only guy bringing the extreme conservative opinions to the board and he's instantly rejected and called an idiot and a bigot. That's f***ed up. He came in guns blazing with some downright insulting posts to many frequent posters here. What other reaction would you expect?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) Being completely intolerant towards a specific group of people, be it political, ethnic, or other. IMO him giving his opinion that he wouldn't want a gay son doesn't go to that degree. He's not saying all homosexuals should be round up and shot. He's not saying we should discriminate against them (in fact didn't he acknowledge the problem with discrimination?) I just don't think it hit that line. Oh, right, advocating that they stay the f*** in the closet and pretend they're someone they're not to make others happy or not shame their parents is discrimination. It couldn't possibly lead to enormous social and personal emotional issues for gays. He views homosexuality as shameful. There's no way around that. There's no way around that being discriminatory. You don't need to be Fred Phelps to be homophobic. eta FlySox what's your view on DADT?

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:23 AM) Then define bigotry. Seems like the extreme views towards gays in here were textbook examples. Some people think it's only racism if you're wearing a KKK outfit and bigotry if you're marching with Phelps.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:22 AM) Well, we won't agree on this so i'm not gonna spend the day going round and round. Somewhere there's a line of bigotry that IMO was not crossed. Having a "terrible" opinion isn't enough. He thinks gay people should stay in the closet and he'd be sad for the rest of his life if his kid was gay. On what f***ing planet is that not bigoted?

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:21 AM) I have all sorts of issues with this post, but to each his own. However, I think the curiousity "reason" why some women are gay is more myth than anything. I firmly believe that if someone is born gay, that's the way they are. It's not a choice. Girls "experiment" in college to get attention from guys, though you probably have to be legitimately bi-sexual to do anything more than kissing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:04 AM) You're telling people they have terrible views. You refuse to acknowledge that other people have differing opinions than you that may or may not be valid. This guy might be off his rocker, but his opinion about gay people or his own thoughts of his own son being gay are just as valid or relevant as your clearly opposite views. We're talking about opinions, not something that can be proven through logical discourse. I'm not saying you can't give him s*** for it, but when you through out "you're being a bigot" you're doing the EXACT same thing - you're being completely intolerant of his opinion simply because you don't agree with him. I hate this "you're bigoted against bigots!!!" solipsism. No, it's not being a bigot to call out a bigot. Not all opinions are valid or equal. His views that children should lie about who they are or not turn to their parents in times of need because it might shame them are terrible. Would we apply the same "everyone's got opinions, you can't call him a bigot!" standard to someone who came in from Stormfront? I can't apologize since I don't know what you're specifically referring to (and searching via google is a pita), but I wouldn't call you that based on what you've posted itt.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:02 AM) So I'd be more tolerant if I were white? The black community statistically opposes gay rights etc. at higher rates, see Prop 8 in California. It would be cultural, not genetic, though. There's plenty of white homophobes.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 11:01 AM) Hey, you gotta take the good with the bad when make that choice. ie you've got to deal with bigoted assholes if you want to be yourself! Why? Uh, wtf? My two brothers and I couldn't be more different, yet we all grew up in the same household and my dad was always around. Many people show signs of sexual and gender orientation at a young age, well before conscience choices on sexuality would be made. Your ideas of gays seem to be seriously misinformed caricatures.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 10:45 AM) That's not my problem. I didn't say anything outlandish or vulgar. You said you'd be disappointed for the rest of your life if your child was gay. Hmm, I wonder if those sorts of feelings helps keep people in the closet (and miserable because of it)?

QUOTE (FlySox87 @ Jul 12, 2011 -> 08:58 AM) I'm in agreement with Allen West. The Palestinians do not deserve a state. Period. why?