StrangeSox

how often do twitter campaigns not backfire?

whoa chill out and lay off the caffeine guys, I was just kidding.

Prof. Sharkey replied to me regarding the work referenced in the article. I haven't had a chance to read the links yet but thought I'd drop them here:

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 29, 2014 -> 09:02 AM) It's definitely annoying but we've all benefitted from it. Now I can get a good cup of coffee in somewhat remote places and its great. Also the invention of things like the Keurig were spawned which are game changers. The last bar I really worked at was in 2003-2004 timeframe or so, we have roughly 6 beers on tap and a few more bottles and that was completely fine with everyone. It was a super popular spot and nobody even asked for local beers. Today that would probably put you out of business. I LOVE that. does not compute

the nerve! eta on the other hand, you guys have definitely never rejected what a black person or persons claim is or isn't racist. eta2 it can also be useful to distinguish between argue and discuss-with-disagreements

I wonder if you can articulate what you even mean by that and how it applies to this article. Hell, more importantly, put me aside entirely and just engage the article.

Also apparently y2hh hasn't bothered to read the article or this thread, because I've said feeling white guilt is dumb and unproductive anyway.

Apparently you can't criticize racist housing policy and stop and frisk without taking a vote of poverty?

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2014 -> 05:40 PM) Youre reaching. A certain subset of clowns think its acceptable, but I do not believe they speak for white society. If they did, then you wouldnt get successful lawsuits for profiling. You are trying to blame the whole for the actions of the few. Its no different than saying all black people are gang members, because well some of them are and I can find articles to prove it. Again, the NYPD had a policy of explicitly stopping and frisking black people, particularly young men, simply for being black people. Up until last year. How can you discount the policy of the police in the country's largest city? And then throw the ongoing housing discrimination on top of it by major banks. The disparity in discipline for young children. The disparity in crime prosecution rates and sentencing. etc. etc. edit: so S&F is still the policy of the NYPD, but the new mayor has promised to reform it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2014 -> 05:35 PM) How do you reconcile the fact that in each of the situations you linked they are suing for damages? It kind of disproves your point that white society believes this is type of profiling is acceptable behavior, it actually shows the exact opposite. It shows that it still happens on a regular basis. Stop and frisk was standard NYPD policy until very recently. Getting pulled over for "Driving While Black" is a thing. Enough of white society believes its okay that it's an ongoing factor.

No, it's about how you'll be viewed by the white majority society, which can only be defined by white society.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 28, 2014 -> 05:15 PM) Strange Sox, he was all over the map in his LONG manifesto. How do you explain his wanting to kill his 6 year old brother as well because he'd grow up to get girls? He said he had to die cause he didn't deserve that and it was unfair brother would get girls. I dunno, he was all sorts of f***ed up. But the core of his ideology was the deep misogyny, and his racial and wealth issues seemed to be tied up with that as well.

When I read those sentences from him, this is what comes to mind for me: Black college student arrested for buying designer belt Young black woman swarmed by police after buying designer handbag Or Coates' article titled "The Good, Racist People" that was spawned by Academy Award-winning actor Forest Whitaker being accused of shoplifting and frisked in a deli. It doesn't matter how respectable these people made themselves, they were still viewed as criminals or likely criminals. That, I believe, is what he's getting at when he says that racism can't be defeated by blacks becoming more respectable.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ May 28, 2014 -> 03:38 PM) He was Jewish and Chinese. Not exactly Aryan Nation material. Read his writings and watch his videos. He makes the racial angle 100% explicit.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2014 -> 03:14 PM) According to his very article it does: No matter what black people do, they cant fix it. He wrote this, not me. Yes, and what was the very next sentence he wrote? So no, his argument isn't that black people are powerless, it's that black people becoming more respectable in the eyes of white society won't fix it because at its heart American racism is about disrespect. So black people have agency, but they cannot change the nature of the racism of society. That is not the same as saying black people are powerless, can't stand on their own two feet and can't do anything on their own. I think he's riffing off of what black nationalist writers, like Malcolm X, have said in the past when he says that.

Help, or restoration for generations of exploitation and plunder, doesn't imply that you have no agency.

I don't take away from his writings that he believes black people have no agency.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 28, 2014 -> 02:42 PM) Yes that's part of what he said. I also heard him mention the slobs who he'd see walking with women. He'd say, 'You want them but not me. So I'll slaughter you.''' I don't think we disagree here or am not sure where we disagree. He said he wanted a girlfriend repeatedly and was enraged these other slobs had girls and he didn't. He even wanted to kill his little brother cause his brother would certainly have no problems getting girlfriends as he got older. Did you catch that part? I don't think we really disagree here, except that I wouldn't say he "wanted" a girlfriend but that he believed he was owed a girlfriend. There's nothing wrong with a person who wants a significant other, but there is with people who believe they are owed one.

Coates also wrote this follow-up piece on his Atlantic blog, explaining how he moved from being opposed to reparations four years ago to his position today: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archiv...autopsy/371125/ he also links to this interview with Duke professor William Darity, who has studied black reparations for twenty years. Links on top of links on top of links in all of these posts.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 28, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) What you say is true I'm sure. On the other hand, what I read in the manifesto and heard him say was he wanted a girlfriend. He was furious whenever he saw couples walking together and he had no girlfriend. He kept pointing out how unfair it was he had no girlfriend. He's say girls went for these other slobs but not him. And he said in response, "I will slaughter you." Real nice. He wanted a girlfriend and he felt that he was entitled or owed one. It was unfair in his mind that these girls were dating inferior men who were poorer or less white or less gentlemanly than he was because obviously someone as white and wealthy and gentlemanly as he is owed a pretty girl.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 28, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) I'm not going to get into his head to try and determine whether or not he was trying to be misleading, but if you want your work to hold any validity in the statistical community, you can't do stuff like that. This wasn't some policy piece and he wasn't doing anything with the numbers but repeating them. It's a rhetorical piece, and he presented the numbers accurately. Rounding to the nearest whole number, 15% of whites have zero or negative net wealth. More than a third, which to me and I expect most people reads as somewhere between 33.4% and maybe 40-45% (otherwise you'd say "nearly half" if you were trying to '"get away with" something), is an accurate representation of 34.5%.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ May 28, 2014 -> 02:30 PM) He may not say "no progress has been made", but he clearly believes that we are doomed to failure Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole. Until is the key word there. America isn't and cannot be whole until those debts are reckoned with. That does not say or imply that America cannot or will not reckon. Why would a black american have a moral debt with respect to anti-black public policy?

What he's talking about there, given the larger context of his back-and-forth with Chait, is our society's reluctance to ever actually honestly and deeply discuss race and our country's past. From Coates' POV, "black culture" and "but look at the progress!" are used as diversionary tactics. His tone can be pessimistic, but I don't think it's right to claim that he pretends or doesn't believe that there's been no progress. To expand on the Malcolm X quote, sure, it was progress when the Reconstruction Amendments were passed, but that knife was still six inches deep in the form of Jim Crow and white terrorism that would follow over the next century. And I don't think he's wrong in arguing that the progress that has been made hasn't come out of alliance with the US government but through ongoing opposition and struggle to the racial policies it kept enacting.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 28, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) I care. That video of the dad of his slain son on CNN was heart wrenching. He was screaming at the NRA and politicians. I see Obama ignored this one so far. I haven't seen any comments from him. Maybe I missed them. I would like to say, this lunatic killer did use both knives and guns, but I do agree the NRA has won. They want us all to be able to be armed in case we are ever in a police state where we need to defend ourselves, right? They also want us to be able to defend ourselves. But no question the fact this lunatic could get guns so easily played a huge part in this awful crime. Like he said in the manifesto, he felt so empowered when the guns arrived. Just think, this guy knocked on the sorority door. If somebody had opened that door, this would have been one of the most horrific massacres ever. He was planning on killing everybody in the sorority. Surely there were no armed sorority girls or housemothers in there ready to defend the sorority against siege. There's probably no answer to this. These killers are going to keep doing this s***. Elliot Rodger will be famous forever and nobody will ever know the victims. Their lives have been erased from the earth for all of eternity. I know I shouldn't say this but I'm glad this freak of a killer killed himself. He doesn't deserve any more time on earth. Geezus. The guy can't get a girlfriend so he does this. He wasn't a bad looking kid. First thing is he should have gone to the Bunny Ranch in Nevada and got a hooker to get his virginity angst out of the way. He'd have been laid finally and maybe that rage would have subsided for gawd sakes. Second he should have fricking TRIED to get a girlfriend the way everybody else tries. Put an ad on match.com for godsakes or ask friends for help in that regard. He was 22 with a BMW and money. Get a girl, man. His manifesto is so much about not getting women as the cause for this. Then the religious issue on all this. All these killers do not know God. If this guy knew God he would never had considered this bulls*** of a crime. But in the world we live in today ... my last statement will sicken some of you and the loudmouths of America much more than even the acts of this bastard. I'm not allowed to mention God. I'm evil for mentioning God in all this. I'm out of line mentioning how people do not know God. I have to respect everybody's right who believes there is no God. Meanwhile these Godless maniacs keep shooting and killing people in movie theatres and at grade schools and on college campuses. I DO CARE AND AM SICK OVER THESE MASS MURDERS. We must try to stop them!!! It's about his view of women as objects and his sense of entitlement to their bodies and affections. It wasn't that he couldn't get a date, it was that he felt he was entitled to the most attractive white girls because he was a wealthy, white Alpha Male.