iamshack

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 04:02 PM) Miss Hooters should stick to what she is good at, getting paid to take her clothes off. http://www.artclu.com/crew/bfoley/lawscope...ory=10&pg=1 http://www.sptimes.com/News/061300/Sports/...s_acquitt.shtml His 2 friends were also found not guilty, due to self-defense. If Lewis wanted to be funny, he should sue her for defamation/slander. Lewis was not acquitted of murder, the prosecution offered him a plea bargain to testify against his friends, which he took. But really, if she wants to make a difference, maybe she should tweet to Wes about dropping catches that hit him in the hands. At least Giselle had the decency to blame her own team. And Giselle is a million times hotter and richer. Darn, I thought those links were going to be to pictures of her taking her clothes off...bastard!

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 03:59 PM) Hummus might be the greatest thing in the world I prefer penetration...ohh...wait.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 02:47 PM) I'm not going to argue with her. Oh my.

She is, but it comes off a bit as spilt milk.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) Nothing different, my point was that it's unsurprising that jobs paying $12/hour for skilled labor aren't being filled rapidly. Basic econ 101 S&D. There's little incentive there. Be happy with your own success, absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm happy with mine, but I also recognize privileges that have enabled me to succeed with the amount of work and effort I've put in where others have worked just as hard and still struggle daily. We get right back to square-one with your last sentence: that those who haven't been economically successful have done little or nothing. That's the consistent theme in my posts: plenty of people bust their asses just as hard as you but have s*** to show for it. I focus a large amount of empathy upon those who have been systematically disadvantaged and who are often judged by those who come from different backgrounds as being lazy and irresponsible, as having done little or nothing. someone posted this in a pretty similar discussion on another mb recently (the concept of racial privileges were more in the focus of the discussion there) Yes, I understand...and Y2H and I have tried to point out a few times now, that we do agree with some of your points, but that we are focusing more on those that are not working hard or doing all they can do improve their lot in life. We are focusing on those that have the ability to improve but don't seem to have the interest or the desire to do so. I suppose where we draw the lines around which people to encompass these groups is probably a large point of contention. I will say this much...in this day and age of information, it is easier to cause self-improvement than at any other time than in modern history. Access to information is much more eqaul than it has been in the past. Hopefully, that will help some of those who have been disadvantaged to overcome some of those disadvantages and to become successful and happy individuals. However, I do think that takes someone willing to throw off any excuses and forge ahead with a determination that is fairly uncommon in many people.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 01:11 PM) Ok, so it wasn't really comparable to a job paying less than half of that and that likely didn't offer any benefits. There's little incentive to undertake substantial changes in your life for a $12/hour job with a limited ceiling and that's always on the brink of being outsourced. No, it wasn't a job for $12 an hour. And as I said, the lesser paying jobs that I did apply for, I was told I was overqualified for. What would you have me do? I actually applied for some jobs with a resume that did not include my legal education, because that seemed to frighten employers in many jobs. But the same point remains. I took an enormous risk to try and be successful in less than even decent economic conditions. I made enormous sacrifices to try and make my own way in life. It really is pretty comparable. In fact, I have been working almost nonstop (with the exception of maybe 2 years while I was in undergrad and law school) since I was 13. I worked full-time (and overtime in many cases) while in undergrad and law school. You seem to diminish the success of those who have carved it out through hard work and sacrifice while focusing an abnormal amount of empathy upon those who have done little or nothing...this seems to be a somewhat consistent theme in your posts.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) I guess where I'm coming from in these discussions is for the significant number of Americans who aren't at that level and do have to worry about survival day-to-day or week-to-week, and that there's a lack of awareness of just how hard many Americans right now have to work just to keep their heads above water. When the conversation focuses on "personal responsibility" or "laziness," it misses an overwhelming majority of the people in poverty and unfairly frames their position as one of their own failures. I understand there are people in poverty that do not include recent college grads refusing to work at the local Applebee's because it is beneath them. But that is a separate argument than the one being made in this thread. At least as far as I understand it. The OP's original point seemed to be targeting those individuals that were of "average" income or above the poverty line. Maybe I was mistaken.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 10:46 AM) I'm still shocked by those decisions. If there is any coach in the NFL who would go for it there, it's Belichek. Not sure what he was thinking. At least one I can remember was a 4th and 8...and this was fairly early in the game, before the Pats' defense got banged up and couldn't slow down the Ravens' offense.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) Was that job paying $12/hour after you went through several months of additional training? edit: can't find it again, but there was some legal firm that was offering paid internships--as in you pay them to job-shadow. No, it paid $57k and a 15% potential bonus. It certainly wasn't a terrible compensation package. However, I did have to spend 6 months just learning about the industry before I could actually perform the job I was hired to do. I did give up the life I had in Chicago and all my friends and family and move clear across the country where I knew essentially no one. I did put the $100k education (which I took out school loans for, mind you) on hold to take a job in an entirely different field which I knew virtually nothing about. Now I could have sat at home on my parents' couch and complained that I couldn't get a job as an attorney making a salary commensurate with my level of education. And I could have scoffed at the notion of taking a job making $40k, because "that is what I could have been making coming out of undergrad!" But I applied for all sorts of jobs in retail and the food and beverage industry, making essentially the same $36k I was making before I went back to undergrad, but was told I was overqualified. I took an unpaid job in a startup company. Ultimately, I realized the opportunities seemed few and far between and took the first good one I had, even though I had to move all the way across the country for it. I realize there are plenty of people doing these things today, too. What I did, and what others did, is not some Herculean effort or anything. It is called taking responsibility for your lot in life. We'd like to see a lot of others do it too, instead of complaining so much, that's all.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:42 AM) I think the bottom line is that this is a multi-faceted issue, and in some ways, people lean on excuses instead of accepting their current station in life, how they got there, and what they can do to move forward. I'm not saying everyone falls in this category, my posts are specifically speaking of those that do. I think a very general point we can make is that human beings are blessed with very capable minds, that allow them to do many, many other things when focusing on immediate survival needs is not necessary. The standard of living for many Americans has reached a level where for a few generations, immediate survival needs were usually not a concern. This has created a sense of comfort and a lack of awareness of just how hard some of our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents worked to put us in this position. Now that many of us have been accustomed to not worrying about food, shelter, etc, we have been blessed with the luxury of worrying about being famous, or wealthy, or powerful. There isn't necessarily an appreciation just to have a roof over our heads or to know where our next meals are coming from. This doesn't equate to a "moral failing" or even necessarily outright laziness. It's just a level of comfort that has always been there for many in our times.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) You get unemployment insurance for a number of weeks (was extended to 99, not sure if it's still in place) when you lose your job. UEI is based on what you were making (60% or something like that). I'm going to tell you I haven't seen anything to indicate that this is the case for a significant portion or that it makes more sense than pointing to the overall high levels of unemployment and meager job growth we've had for years now. I'm sure glad I graduated when I did and not a few years later. Do we have an epidemic of unfilled table-waiting jobs? Should these grads move half-way across the country to take some crappy manufacturing job paying $12/hour? I'm still not seeing a "personal responsibility" problem here. The last bit gave me a chuckle. Funny that you posted that article about law schools and lawyers...I graduated from law school in May of '07, right before stuff got pretty rough...I applied for numerous jobs to which I was told I was "overqualified." I ended up taking a job with a startup company for $0/hr and working for 8 months and getting paid absolutely nothing, ever. I then moved all the way across the country to take a job in an industry I knew nothing about. In fact, before hearing about the position I ultimately took, I didn't even know such a job existed. Five years later, I have more than doubled my salary and am one of the youngest managers in my company. So yes, I suppose I could have sat around and waited for a more efficient distribution of my legal skills...and I'd probably be haggling in traffic court right now, but instead I chose to do what I had to do at the time and am better for it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:57 AM) So where's the responsibility on the plant owner's part to offer competitive wages to attract people to the jobs? The labor market is a two-way street, like you said earlier. If he did, the jobs would get shipped back to China again. Americans don't want their jobs going to China, but they also don't want to do them, either.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:51 AM) I don't know that "many kids" qualify for unemployment insurance. I still don't see any support for the idea that there's millions of lazy ass-sitters and all of these open positions that they could have if we successfully lecture them about responsibility, though. I don't know who qualifies for unemployment insurance, I was just taking your lead. But are you seriously going to tell me that today's American college student, is out there hitting the pavement every day looking for reasonable work? Instead of waiting around to find the job that directly correlates with his major or is in his desired field? I don't know where you live, but I work with several folks who have college age children or recent college grads, and many of them are sitting around waiting for their big break or something as opposed to waiting tables or something.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Not having to immediately take whatever possible job you can find and being able to find something that actually matches your skills is one of the primary reasons for unemployment insurance. See, then you and Balta cannot come in and make your "world is ending" speeches if many kids simultaneously have the luxury of having unemployment insurance or other options other than working.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:41 AM) I don't think I'm wrong here and I don't think you've made your case. You gave me an article that talks about low-wage-but-skilled jobs not being filled. That's not evidence of a meaningful number of people sitting on their asses waiting for their "dream job" Yeah, I understand one article about jobs unfilled in Reno doesn't make my case. It's merely anecdotal. But it proves that it does happen. I see it every day...I drive by places like convenience stores or collection agencies that are always hiring, and yet, I see all these "homeless veterans" that are like my age begging for money on the street. They clearly realize they can beg for money on the street and make more money than working at the collection agency or the convenience store.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) It's not about being "beneath" someone, it's about the most efficient utilization of resources. Her taking that sandwich job means someone without her skill set who needs something like the SA job can't fill that position and that some of her time will be spent at this job instead of looking for more productive work. HAHA

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:33 AM) I'm going to point back to Balta's post indicating that having 3M unfilled jobs at any given time isn't an indication of widespread laziness and that it's far below where a healthy economy would be. I'm going to say that I remain skeptical that the existence of skilled-but-low-wage jobs proves that there's a significant number of people sitting on their couches who could or should take these jobs. There's training time and costs (some companies are doing a training program, but how many of the 3M jobs are offering that?), relocation, etc. If there's a failure in a particular labor market, it's not necessarily because of lazy labor. To some extent, we don't want people who are temporarily unemployed rushing to take the first available job they can find--should a licensed architect rush out to fill these low-wage manufacturing jobs, or should she wait until there is a position available where she can actually utilize her skillset and experience? Oh come on, you two both need to admit when you are wrong once in awhile instead of making up this nonsense.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:29 AM) This is basic S&D. If they were offering $50/hour (for extreme example), there would be lines of people out the door. Well then it just must not be as bad as you and some others think then...because last I saw, $12/hr equates to some reasonable meals and lodging at least. But I suppose it would be better to just siphon off of someone else.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:22 AM) Apparently not, if those jobs are going unfilled. Or maybe there are people sitting on their couch, because this isn't their dream job. So now you and Balta are going to argue that they are not sitting on their couches doing nothing, they are just holding out for better pay?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:19 AM) That doesn't seem like a "personal responsibility" thing. They want skilled, trained labor for $12/hour. They are working with community colleges to provide the training for free or very little cost. You start at $12/hr, and many skilled machinists can make $60k a year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 10:13 AM) You do realize that when a job becomes open, it isn't filled the next day, right? 3 million job openings remains well under the "healthy economy" level of job openings. And every time you hear a guy say "we can't find people to fill these positions", the first question you should ask him, and the question that never gets asked in that story, is "What are you paying for it". If a guy is running a firm that needs high quality workers, doesn't want to offer training, doesn't offer benefits, pays $13 an hour, and requires a masters degree, then he's right, he'll never find people to fill those positions, because he's not offering a competitive wage for the demands. See, this is precisely what I would have expected from you. You can't have it both ways. It cannot simultaneously be 'the world is ending, this is the "destruction" of the economy, the worst time for humanity in history' and then start complaining that the manufacturing jobs available don't pay enough. And i never said the economy was healthy. You and SS are claiming that there aren't people being picky about the jobs they take. I say there are people who are sitting at home rather than taking a lesser job. SS says give me a source. I provide one. You say THOSE jobs don't pay enough. Ok then.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) No I honestly don't understand what the point you were making there was. That could entirely be on my end. You don't understand the difference between claiming there has been a "wussification" of America and saying more people need to buck up and take responsibility when times are tough? The argument of the original poster versus what Y2H and I have been arguing?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:04 AM) And do you know how many 20somethings I can name who are working their asses off in school or in positions where they are way underpaid because that's all that they could get? And that is what people do when things suck. They took some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It's called "real life." Now we just need more people to do that.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 11:02 AM) Cite/source? There are currently some 3 million unfilled jobs in America right now.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 21, 2013 -> 10:58 AM) One of the big pitfalls with regular American liberalism is falling into a high-brow paternalism. Yeah, it was more the bs comment "I don't know what you are saying here."