iamshack

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) It's their first strike in a 1/4 century and it was held with a 90% vote by CTU members after months of fruitless negotiations. For some reason, people keep thinking this is a strike about raises. It's about many different issues and the COL adjustments are one of the ones with little or no contention at this point. Sure, and these teachers electing to strike don't. Well you keep raising that particular issue, so we keep addressing it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) That's your only option because you have no collective negotiating power. Had you been organized with other workers, striking would have been an option. So then it ceases to be anything noble anymore. They've now collectively banded together in order to achieve their "good wage," and said the hell with the children they are supposed to be serving.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 03:43 PM) I have? Those two are not in conflict, though. You can be in it for the children and still want to earn a good wage. Not if the means of achieving that wage is to stop showing up.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 03:39 PM) So, you wouldn't accept a s*** deal. Welcome to life on earth, bub. No, I'd keep working until I found another job. The ones I've had wouldn't allow me to just stop showing up.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 04:21 PM) How many people posting in this thread would simply accept longer hours, reduced job protection and no increase in pay if you had the option to fight against it? I'd look for another job. And again, welcome to life on earth.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) Fight On!!! No Huddle, No Mercy!

I've fallen in love with the Oregon program over the last few years. As someone with no real college allegiance, I decided to dedicate myself to full-out Duckness this season. I apologize in advance for annoying all of you this season with my front-running.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) Lawyers generally have the additional benefit of making $$$ Yeah, my degree also took me 3 extra years and cost $100 grand.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) They wouldnt hire you, even if youd take minimum wage? I cant imagine that. I didn't say I would take minimum wage. I said I applied for a lot of jobs and was told I was overqualified.

Thanks. Now that we have been enlightened, we can continue on with our ill-informed debate.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 11:06 AM) You may not be aware, but getting a masters degree screws you trying to get a CPS job. One of my good friends is very talented, she went to Smith for undergrad and got 2 masters at Depaul (education and history) before she even tried to get a teaching job. Her dream was to be a High School teacher. She student taught at CPS and the school loved her. But they couldnt hire her. Why? According to the contract they had to pay her X due to all of her degrees. She just wanted a job, she told them she would be willing to take the lowest starting salary. They said that it was not allowed because of the union. She is now teaching at a private school in the suburbs, making less money than a brand new CPS teacher with no extra degrees. It makes no sense. Again, welcome to life on earth. You know how many jobs I applied for in 2007-08 and was told I was overqualified because I held a law degree? THIS IS THE REAL WORLD, NOT JUST THE TEACHING PROFESSION.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) This would be a bleeping huge game to win. Please do better than 2/15 with RISP. Or at least get a hit with RISP early so that I don't nearly faint when it happens. Man up Jake. Hopefully the pressure is off now and they relax a bit.

QUOTE (Jake @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 10:35 AM) What I don't understand is why you guys don't all become teachers... awesome pay, awesome benefits and pension, EASY work schedule, EASY nature of work why don't you do it??? Because I am greedy and hate children.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 10:31 AM) I thought we were talking about CPS here? College isn't directly relevant. Many of these teachers that have been teaching for years and years already have their preparation complete. There is a certain amount of foundation work that is done and then that is used over and over and over. There isn't a lot of new dynamic analysis being done of the Canterbury Tales or The Scarlet Letter every year. Algebra and Geometry don't really change after you have prepared to teach it for a year or two. I get what you're saying here, I really do...my stepfather teaches college courses and I recognize he puts in plenty of time outside of the actual teaching. But we all do...especially with the advent of company laptops and cell phones...I'm answering emails and dealing with work issues around the clock. I also understand the desire to not be rated as a teacher by the test scores of low-income students. That is a very challenging benchmark to be rated. However, there has to be some way to hold them accountable, and their performance is a very big part of that. How else can we rate them if not by the performance of their students?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 09:13 AM) I explicitly stated what my point was several pages ago. It isn't about lack of internet access or the total level of mental difficulty of their job. And that point was refuted by multiple people. It was pointed out that they administer tests and quizzes to their students while they sit on their phones and text. They show videos. They have reading time and study halls. They certainly don't lecture continuously. I'm willing to agree that their lack of access to a computer and internet continuously like many white collar professions probably reduces the time spent looking at internet sites for personal reasons, but they make up for that in other ways. Just like plenty of white collar professions did prior to the widespread use of the internet in corporate America.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) What full time employee only works 1,000 hours per year? Some firms expect attorneys to bill 200 hours a month (50 hours per week). That is 2,400 hours. No one else does work outside of the office except teachers.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 11, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) The point wasn't "oh no, they can't post on SoxTalk!" edit: but keep the work-hours posts flooding in! There were 112 posts in this thread between 8am and 5pm yesterday. This still isn't even a valid point...this is about a lack of internet access during their working hours. It has nothing to do with some increased level of output or some difficult task they must do. I guarantee you the level of analysis I do on a daily basis requires a higher level of thinking than just about any CPS teacher does in all of Chicago. So because I am also able to post on Soxtalk simultaneously that means they should go on strike? I mean what the hell is the point you are even trying to make?

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 10:13 PM) motownsports is like a mirror image of Soxtalk and WSI. Many of them have a good sense of humor. If you removed the head to head matchups, Tiger fans are going through what Sox fans use to go through with the Twins. On paper the Tigers are the more talented team but the Sox have been winning by playing better fundamental baseball most of the season where the Tigers have relied on out clubbing the opponents. Outside of their 3 and 4 hitters, they don't have a great supporting cast in their line up. I was watching the Tigers' broadcast last night and even their announcers admitted the White Sox have been the better team this year. Not head to head, but against other teams, the White Sox have played better baseball.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 08:09 PM) Hey buddy keep missing the point of that one example everyone here could relate to! Sorry buddy, but you made this lame point like 5 times in the thread. It was really a laughable point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 04:07 PM) The average CPS teacher, who has about 14 years of experience, gets a total compensation equal to about $74,798/year or $34.50/hour. The average percentage of CPS students who meet or exceed state standards is 66%. The percentage of CPS 11th graders who meet college readiness benchmarks is 21% in Reading, 19% in Math, 11% in Science and 38% in English. The average Chicagoan works a comparable schedule to a CPS teacher, yet earns half as much in total compensation, 33 fewer days off, higher health care costs for lower quality health benefits and either a 401(k) that they contribute heavily into or no retirement package at all. http://www.chicagonow.com/windy-city-young...r-compensation/ But keep b****ing and spreading the myth, teachers! But they can't post on Soxtalk!

QUOTE (JPN366 @ Sep 7, 2012 -> 11:18 PM) If you haven't seen "Luther," I recommend it highly. Yeah, it's awesome...as is my man Idris

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) They did! But now CPS is trying to change them without additional compensation. (For the record, my wife doesn't work for CPS and is less pro-union than I am. My stance isn't because of my wife's profession.) Yeah, welcome to life on earth.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) Uh, yeah, that's the point. By the nature of their job, teachers can't waste nearly as much time at work as every one of us posting in this thread right now (I'm off today, so I'm only wasting my own time!) So they waste all kinds of time differently. This is not a particularly good argument for them going on strike. We are exercising our minds by engaging in this debate, btw...it's not as though we are watching porn (you may be, since you are at home

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) Can you say that it's not? It was meant to point out that they can't take mental breaks throughout the day like a lot of professionals can. Are you at work right now, posting on SoxTalk instead of doing your job? A teacher doesn't have that luxury throughout the day. Yes, they get more time off, but when they're at work, they're working, not dicking around on the internet. How often have you worked at job sites? Let's just say that while there's difficult work, there's often a lot of standing around. On top of that, ironworkers are often unionized and would be striking as well if they were suddenly being required to work 25% longer with no additional compensation or improved working conditions. No. Unfortunately, many private schools do not have unionization, but that's an excellent example of why unions aren't an anachronistic holdover and why they're still important. You'd think wrong. Oh this is such bs...they take mental breaks all the time...They give tests, assign their students time to read, etc., etc. I've dated plenty of teachers, btw...they have plenty of time to text me all f***ing day while I am trying to work. The fact that they aren't able to post on Soxtalk all day like you and I boils down to the fact that they don't work at computers all day with internet access, not because they have some terrible working conditions. Yes, they have to stay in the classroom and supervise, but they probably don't have to do some of the difficult things I have to do during my day, either. I'm sure they aren't reading through FERC Orders all day or trying to explain to attorneys why we our electric system doesn't work the way some regulator in Washington DC wants it to. Most of us have good and bad things about our jobs. Teachers are no different. I've got two very good friends that are ironworkers. I know they are not always "laboring." It's also one of the most dangerous jobs in this country...but I suppose that is outweighed by the teachers who risk their lives every day with those difficult algebraic equations. I admire teachers for what they do, I don't mean to imply that I don't. As someone who holds a worthless History degree, that is one of the career paths available to me. I chose against it because adolescent children piss me off.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 10, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) I'd like to point out again that one of the things they're striking over is classroom size and keeping it down. That's directly beneficial to the students. I'm sure that is what their concern is, too. Honestly, some of your sympathies for teachers is that they can't step away to the water cooler or to post on message boards? I know that was a bit in jest, but seriously, many, many people have difficult jobs. How'd you like to be an ironworker? Do you think they are able to post on Soxtalk too? Their days are now 60 minutes longer? So what, do they work 9 hour days now? Boohoo. How about the poor teachers working in parochial schools making $28k to start...are they able to post on soxtalk? I think average teacher works about half the year. Maybe that is why they have to work longer days.