iamshack

QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 12:58 PM) If you have knowledge of an adult having sex with a minor child. Seems like a police matter. Let them investigate and decide. Now do you also tell her parents that you notified the police? They never had knowledge, Tex...they had rumor/speculation and then used their position of authority to intimidate the student into divulging information she had no interest in telling them, or her mother.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 12:50 PM) Shack, I guess the problem with the precedent is that we are de facto saying that there is something wrong with being gay. I doubt there would be any concern about a school calling to say that a boy and girl were having a relationship, I doubt that a school counselor gets sued if they say it in a meeting with the family. If the mother had some sort of negative reaction, that is on her. And therein lies the problem. Do we create rules that carve out special protections, which may be good intentioned but continue to create the idea that there is something different about gay people? Or do we strive to create rules/laws that treat them as equals, but may result in instances where people are emotionally/psychologically hurt? I dont know, I personally dont think teachers/administrators should treat kids that way, regardless of whether they are gay, straight, black, white, etc. Come on Badger, you know better than this. It doesn't "say" there is anything "wrong" with being gay. It only recognizes there is a social and measurable stigma for being a homosexual in our society. I am sure there are studies one could reference which point to these measurables, which include employment rate, salary rates, ability to adopt children, ability to find housing, etc.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 12:34 PM) Its not, but that doesnt mean it shouldnt be a relevant consideration when asking if this lawsuit should have been filed in the first place. I get that if they told her mother and the mother kills herself, or does something crazy, that you want to be put back whole. But from what I can tell, nothing like that happened, it doesnt even appear the mother fainted or went into shock. You cant change bigotry through lawsuits, I think a more appropriate avenue would have been a formal complaint to the school asking for the teachers to be reprimanded. Well, the claim of damages is psychological injury...you would know more than I as how well those claims have to be laid out for the judge to award anything significant. Obviously the other value here would be for precedent's sake, so that schools understand they cannot act in this manner BEFORE someone does it again and some mother or kid does go and kill himself/herself.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 12:22 PM) Ultimately the issue will be damages. If they are just nominal its a waste of everyone's time. If Im the Defendant, Im arguing that there are no damages, that there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian, so outing her is as irrelevant as saying that their daughter came to school with purple hair. The rest just seems like commonplace school nonsense. Teachers, etc try and use leverage to get information from students. Since when has this been a relevant factor in the court system?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:57 AM) I'm not making a value judgement. I'm talking about the legal aspects here. The medications policy is tough because it involves the possibility of real imminent harm. The sexual orientation policy does not.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:55 AM) I just don't see how you can be "outed" about something you already expect/assume/have suspicions about. Suspicions, btw, that were so strong that she asked about it on more than one occasion. There are degrees of wrongness which help decide a case. If this were a case where absolutely no one knew she was gay and no one had suspicions of it, it would be different, especially since we're talking about invasion of privacy and not a black/white line cause of action. The mother did not know her daughter was a homosexual. Is it fair to assume she did not know because her daughter did not wish her to know? The coach threatened to disclose this information to the mother. If the coach is threatening to disclose some information to the student's mother, that implies that the coach knew the mother was not aware of the student's homosexuality. The coach then informed the mother that the student was a homosexual.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:41 AM) to the parents they are calling to ask if their kids can take medications. So your argument is that since schools make it a policy to alert parents before their children can take medication that alerting them of their children's sexual orientation is fair game?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) How did the coaches "confirm" it? I'd be arguing that the coaches telling her wasn't "outing" her any more than whatever other evidence led to the mother's suspicions before all of this happened. The kid could have easily refuted it. "Mom, they're lying, they just don't like me. Hell, they kicked me off the team!" Again, I think this was inappropriate. Not arguing that. There is an argument to be made, but that doesn't mean it is worth a s***. You don't think a school authority figure having a discussion in regards to her daughter's sexuality would imply a bit of truth that was absent in the other sources of her suspicions? I mean GMAB, it's one thing to suspect or whatever...but to have a school employee approach you and disclose this to you? You're really expecting me to believe this doesn't serve as some form of confirmation?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) If the courts had upheld it, the schools wouldn't be allowed to disclose any medical information, including what pills their kids were taking. Schools wouldn't be allowed to disclose it to whom? My guess is they are already prohibited from disclosing health-related information to anyone but school medical employees or outside medical professionals.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 11:27 AM) I agree it's not the schools place, and I agree these guys didn't do the right thing. But all that is different from whether or not her privacy was invaded. You and I both know that a judge can see the intention of these coaches and craft the decision to work however the hell he or she wants...

Sexual orientation and personal health are two privacy rights that the courts will upheld, barring some imminent harm to another party unless the information is disclosed. There is no way around that.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) According to the link provided by SS, the mother also had suspicions about it, so it probably wasn't a complete shock: I doubt the standard is how shocked the audience was to learn of the news the subject wished to keep private. The bottom line is that this is not the school's place to get involved in this sort of thing. Do you really believe this wasn't the coach being upset that this player was supposedly dating her ex?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 11:08 AM) It doesn't matter. Legally schools can do pretty much whatever they want. That is absolutely untrue.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 11:04 AM) I don't think keeping that a secret would be all that difficult for a high schooler. I feel like my parents didn't know about 90% of the dumb s*** I did back in the day. Yes, most likely because you WANTED it that way. The School District has no right to pull you aside and threaten you unless you divulge all your secrets to your parents based on a rumor they heard. There was no imminent danger present, there was no witnessing of an illegal act, this was not something that was reported to them as a potentially dangerous situation from others...this was a coach settling a personal score and then seeking to justify it after the fact with some "duty to disclose" nonsense.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) In a school setting, kids have zero expectation of privacy. The courts have pretty well vetted that. I disagree...sexual orientation is like the holy grail of privacy, in any setting...they're screwed.

QUOTE (G&T @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) You can't invade privacy when the information is already disclosed on a wide level. Reasonable efforts at keeping the information private must be made. If she was openly gay at school and everywhere else outside the home, then these coaches may not have known that it was being kept private from the parents. But that's for a jury to decide. And yeah this is false imprisonment, and probably intentional infliction of emotional distress. If her own mother was unaware, how widely was it disclosed?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:49 AM) Potentially but that's a lot more of a grey area both ethically (she appeared openly gay to them, could they honestly know or expect that the mother didn't know if they had legitimate reasons for informing on the relationship) and legally. They used the fact that her mother did not know as their main leverage in the situation..."we'll tell your mother unless..." It's not for the f***ing school district to determine what is "openly" gay or not openly gay...they are clearly ill-equipped to be involved in these matters and the law recognizes that.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:41 AM) I don't think they did the right thing, but I wouldn't call it an invasion of her privacy either, especially if there was actual evidence that she was "openly gay for several years." Even if she was openly gay at school, that doesn't mean her mother knew or that she wanted her mother to know. If it's not an invasion of her privacy to lock her in a room and threaten her, what would you call it? False imprisonment?

This is entirely harassment and invasion of privacy...

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:03 AM) Time to start watching Shameless and find out! I actually have it in my Blockbuster queue and have the episodes from this current season recording on my dvr.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:53 AM) I am sure a quick google search will provide that for you. Karen and Fiona are both pretty hot, but Veronica(Shanola Hampton) has the best body on the show, hands down Haha...I was referring to The Walking Dead...and I was really confused trying to figure out who Karen, Fiona and Veronica were!

QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 07:23 AM) Seems like an easy decision. Possible abuse here between an adult and a child. They needed to report it to someone. Actually they should have called the police. I disagree...I voted otherwise. Do you really think that a 16 year old dating an 18 year old is something the school district needs to concern itself most about? "Possible abuse between an adult and a child" is hardly how I would describe this situation, Tex. This was clearly not about making sure this player was free from potential abuse and more about a coach settling some personal issue.

I wish the show was on HBO so I could at least hope to see the blonde's boobs.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:37 AM) It was like 3 hundred something. In either case, it was a big win. Edit, it was in the 270 range. So if I hadn't sold it, I'd be able to get 2x as much now. But a win is still a win. Yeah, that's still pretty awesome...$13k is $13k

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Feb 15, 2012 -> 09:03 AM) None, I sold them when I bought our house. :0 And I didn't have many to begin with, only like 50. I was just out of college in 97' so I didn't have much money at the time, but it still ended up being nice. Apple is one of my greatest selling regrets, but I needed the money so we could get +20% down on the house to start. I should sue Apple for continuing to go up after I sold... frivolous lawsuits ftw. What did you sell them for?