iamshack

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) So you are saying he quit? Yep.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) Ben Roethlisberger - Twice accused rapist Michael Vick - Killed dogs for sport Brett Favre - sending pics of his penis to team employees Jay Cutler - shows frustration, has missed one game in his career, and was knocked out of the NFC Championship Game with a legit injury Guess which player has been flamed the most, and it's not even close. What a disgrace. I'm done with this thread and anyone who has a problem with Jay coming out of that game. If you have a problem with it, you are a meathead who cannot be convinced of the truth. I don't really judge what players do outside of the game.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:07 PM) Please tell me why you think he was out of the game. Well, I've been saying it for the last two hours, but I'll say it again. I think he was injured. I think he was also moping and sulking. I think his poor attitude colored his decision on how injured he was and whether or not he could continue. Had the game been going more favorably, I think he would have done more to try and stay in the game.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) I want to slap you. Sorry, I'm just tired of being called a meathead.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:04 PM) Having popped both knees before, if you try to put extra stress on those ligaments, especially right after damaging them the first time, they're not going to be happy about it. You could easily take a grade 2 and turn it into a grade 3. I'm certain that you could. But the fact that we have plenty of anecdotal evidence of others playing with this injury seems to indicate that you can control the degree of risk by taking certain precautions, or that in some cases, there may be very little or no risk at all.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:01 PM) He had a (likely second degree) MCL sprain, was ineffective to begin with and worse with the injury, and the coaching staff decided to pull him rather than risk further injury. Let's say they kept Cutler in. He manages to get a couple of TD's and they take the lead, but he blows out his knee the rest of the way and is done for the SB and requires surgery in the off season. What good does that do anyone? Is that better or worse for the long-term prospects of the franchise? No. But what was the risk of further injury? I would need to know that first.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) Ah, hadn't gotten to this. If you are going to make definitive statements, make sure you are tuned into the entirety of the game, I guess. Yeah, one would never want to insist that LeBron would never go to Miami or anything.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:48 PM) But he's never shown it like that before. He's never quit on the team even when he's been getting his head knocked off. Yeah, I can't really refute that point. Maybe he decided this would be easier than just chucking the ball wildly around the field like he has done in the past when he gets frustrated. I'll admit, I would have liked to see him come back and give it another go after Collins proved ineffective and before they put Hanie in. I would feel better with this situation if I had seen something that clearly showed he was battling an injury. Instead, I saw the guy come out in that first series of the second half with no noticeable limp. Then I watched him stand around sulking and moping for most of the second half. I did not see him using crutches, or with a brace on, or even sitting down for most of the time. I did not see him talking with other players or the coaching staff. I did not see him talking to the other quarterbacks. Now their have been reports that he did talk to Hanie and that the type of MCL sprain he had allows one to stand on it without any real detriment or pain in the knee. If all of what I saw, and how I feel about that, makes me a meathead or a meatball or suffering from meatball-itis, then so be it. But then I happen to think those calling me a meathead are suffering from "make excuses for our fallen hero and refuse to acknowledge the truth-itis."

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:43 PM) But he does have a sprained MCL. So if they made that conclusion, they were right. We've seen Jay struggle and play poorly when he's getting knocked around. He was having a bad game yesterday, no doubt. But we haven't seen him up and quit on a team. Maybe if he was still getting the job done with the injury they'd have kept him in. But he wasn't. He was only going to hurt himself and hurt the team. That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness? Mental toughness. The inability to deal with adversity in the correct manner. Moping. Sulking. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:34 PM) Hi, you're assuming your conclusion that Jay took himself out or expressed a desire to be pulled. Well do you agree that there had to be some communication going on between Jay and the training and coaching staffs for the decision to be made? Do you think they just determined by themselves that Jay must have been injured because his performance was so poor, and therefore, he had a sprained MCL? I'm pretty certain that they asked him. I'm also hypothesizing that had the game been going better, he would not have been sitting on the sidelines for the second half, or he would have gotten some kind of treatment to allow him to continue. Obviously just my hypothesis, but I think it's a pretty fair conclusion to make considering what we have seen from him this year when the going got tough. Call me a meatball or whatever you guys want, but I think I have a pretty solid history here of not jumping to ridiculous conclusions in the moment or in the immediate aftermath.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:31 PM) Nothing to back it up? Statements from the coaches saying it was their and the medical staff's decisions. A positive MRI. Cutler's history, or lack thereof, of being soft or weak. What is there to back up questioning his toughness? "Oh, he didn't look injured on the sidelines!" How many times do we have to make the distinction that it is his attitude coupled with the injury that may have caused him to back out of the game?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) It's fine to criticize players and Cutler certainly deserves a ton of it but bashing him for not being tough is ridiculously misguided and to be honest, it's just plain stupid. It's stupid why? I'm not questioning his ability to take a whipping, I'm questioning his ability to stay mentally strong. We've seen many cases of him breaking down this year because of the pressure. I'm just going off of what I saw and what nearly everyone else was questioning, including people that know him, people that have played against him, etc.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) It's not just pain, it's your knee giving out on you. Which is why the med staff brings those things called "braces."

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) And as soon as he made a poor throw people would be all over him, saying he sucked and that he's "Bad Jay." Come on. Yeah, they would have. And then it would have come out that he was playing injured and people would have cut him slack. No one wanted Jay to come out of the game. Whether or not he was playing terribly, no one wanted him out of the game. Why is it unfair to criticize a player in your eyes, Slav?

QUOTE (DrunkBomber @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) A lot of the people who have been on Cutlers side of this have been very critical of the people questioning the injury. However, there is a total flip flop going on in their argument. It started off saying how tough he has been and if he says he is too hurt than we have to take his word for it. Then once the MRI results come back and guys like ptatc are saying that in his opinion its s second degree sprain (not calling you out, just using your expertise to prove a point) and isnt an injury that cant be played through that now the excuse is that there is nothing he can do because the coaches/doctors kept him out. There is an enormous difference between being too hurt to play and being capable of playing and being held out by the coaches. Considering he went in the first series in the 2nd half the largest factor in him remaining in the game would be based on how he said he felt. Now Im not doubting the injury and theres no way to know what kind of pain he was in or how much the decision to pull him was injury and how much was performance. But all the people who are s***ting all over people upset about this need to realize that this injury is something can be played and its been proven many times. Lovie Smith didnt say he pulled him because he was playing bad, he said it was because of the injury. Do you honestly not think if Jay came in after the first series in the 2nd half and said to Lovie "Its sore but Im fine, I can play through it" that he would have stayed in the game? And this is where the attitude and the moping and sulking come in. I just sort of worry that he capitulated because of the way the game was going when he might not have had things been going better. And if that is truly the case, he's not the guy I want as my quarterback. Not saying that I know that is the case. Just saying that I fear it was.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 02:01 PM) Haha there aren't many QB's in the league who would be less affected by an inability to plant when throwing than Cutler. I know you say this half-joking, but it's actually true. If there was anyone who could go out there and play effectively just off his arm strength alone, it would be Jay Cutler.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 01:38 PM) * A first degree sprain is damage to only a few ligament fibres. * A second degree sprain is damage to a more extensive number of ligament fibres, but the ligament remains intact. * A third degree sprain is a complete rupture of the ligament. Because of the force involved in this injury other structures in the knee, such as the Meniscus (Cartilage) or the Anterior Cruciate Ligament can also be damaged. It's still torn, fool. And people tear things all the time. You tear connective tissue and ligament fibers from stretching alone. Just because there was tearing, doesn't mean it was some terribly debilitating injury. Ultimately, none of us will know, because we are not Jay. But jeesh, as Ptatc mentioned, they certainly didn't seem to concerned about treating him on the sidelines.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 01:20 PM) It's so hard to deal with lovie. On one hand, some CRAZY stupid things done yesterday. on the other...he took a team with so many holes almost to the superbowl. And we held the most potent offense in the playoffs to 14 pts. How do you manage the two? He's both a really good coach and a bonehead. I'm convinced he is an outstanding football coach, but just a terrible "in-game" coach. He's always made some really terrible head scratchers inside of games, but yet, seems to be able to prepare our team to be in just about any game we play.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 12:52 PM) He and Knox give up on routes way too early. He did on that one and tried to get it back and couldn't. The one thing that the Bears need on defense is a prescence in the middle of the field to stop the quick slants. WR's are suppossed to pay a price for going over the middle and they never do. In the same token Chris Harris played a really good game. Harris, Wright and maybe Tillman should add some depth at the Safety position next year along with Manning and Moore. They need at least one good CB. Rock, I have been to the revamped Soldier field a few other times but it was in the Club Seats. I was on the other side yesterday and the seats were awesome but he amentities are too cramped and the bathrooms suck. Also access to the Stadium blows no matter what mode of transportation you take. I was there to see a football game and I got that so I really shoudn't complain but I expected more. Thread for a different time I suppose. This is the strength of the Packers offense though, and for whatever reason, the Bears are one of the few teams that seems capable of stopping it at all. Part of that is probably familiarity, but you've got to give them credit. On the other hand, you're not going to stop them all the time.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 12:46 PM) I dont think NFL players defend their own at all. For each guy on a team, theres plenty of people that come out hating on him. Tom Brady, Philip Rivers, Big Ben, even Kyle Orton have been s*** on in the media by other players. They talk smack. This is different. You don't usually have a whole lot of players with no stake in things questioning a guy.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) He was playing a terrible game before he got hurt, no doubt. That's actually kind of getting lost in this whole injury controversy. Because this whole controversy allows Bears fans a period of denial whereby they can avoid thinking about losing the game to a better team, especially a better Packers team. We honestly might have been blessed by what happened, because Hanie coming in, whether it was him or some other effect occurring, certainly seemed to give us a better chance to win that game.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) in the end...cutler brought alot of this on himself. His attitude with media and public image doesn't do him any favors. Instead of giving the guy the benefit of the doubt, people look for a reason to be able to rip him, fair or unfair (and clearly i think its unfair in this situation). Nobody would ever question Derek Jeters toughness if he came out of a game in the ALCS. Cutler has created this brash, difficult to like personality in the media, and at every opportunity to be able to rip him, people will. Same thing is happening with lebron. Its a shame because the guy really has such huge potential. This is exactly it. I really don't feel bad for him because his chickens have come home to roost. I defended him for much of the year, but it's really difficult to defend him when you see this kind of overwhelming backlash against the guy. I generally think NFL players defend their own, and not too many people are willing to defend this guy. Just makes you wonder what we don't know.

Whether it was injury, whether it wasn't, it's pretty clear that Jay's attitude and reputation around the league has caught up with him a bit. He's not going to get the benefit of the doubt, and it's difficult to really say he deserves it. I'm not in any locker rooms and I don't know the guy personally, but it become pretty alarmingly clear that the guy rubs just about everyone the wrong way. I've been defending Jay for most of the year against the potshots taken at him by the national media, but you've got to wonder what kind of effect this has on him, on our team, etc. I don't feel bad for Jay crying at his locker room though. Maybe he should have thought of this when he did whatever he has done to cause people to question him in this way.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 09:32 AM) I still love Jay Cutler. Dude is the best we've ever had. We had some tough luck here, the way that defense played in the 2nd half and how we had a few chances to tie the game on drives... if Cutler is healthy we win that game. I feel the worst for Brian Urlacher. This was his best chance to win a Super Bowl ring. Did Brian Urlacher not do the same damn thing to his own teammate? Didn't he sit on his couch and watch our game with a Yahoo! reporter and tell him that Forte doesn't make anyone miss? While Forte happened to be injured? Ok, Brian. Yahoo

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Jan 23, 2011 -> 10:41 PM) attitude? again, meatball stuff here. next thing you'll be saying is "he doesn't look at the playbook when the bears are on defense! we never shoulda traded Grossman or Orton!" Ok, I guess I am just making up the attitude issues.