iamshack

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:11 PM) I agree with what you are saying. I just found it hypocritical of him to say he would have played, or whatever. Because, well he didn't. Yes I know he played the next week, but it's a bit different playing on a week's worth of preparation. The injury he sustained was also a bit different. Again, Rivers is a class guy. He's not going to call Jay names or say what Jay should have done. What he did say, was that he would have been out there playing if he could walk. He basically says he would have done things entirely different but felt bad for Jay because he wasn't at 100%. Doesn't really side with him at all.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) How about it works because of both of them, this is not zero sum. Take either one of them out and you see glaring weaknesses. Take out the SAM, not so much, you see dropoff but it's nto crippling. I can agree with that. But Urlacher is the guy who gets all the media hype. Which is why I believe he is overrated. Not saying he hasn't been a hell of a player over the course of his career, but I just don't think he's as good as the media likes to portray him to be. If I had to choose one to keep, it would be Briggs.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:28 PM) Yeah me either. I heard that earlier today but didn't have a source so I didn't mention it. Also, LOL at people who I was arguing with earlier today talking about a time when they hurt their knee in H.S. football or playing softball or whatever and trying to claim with a straight face that it's the same, and they are doing something Cutler couldn't or wouldn't do. I kinda doubt any of them had to play against Clay Matthews. Hah, I honestly think I sprained my MCL saturday playing football with the guys from work, and I was talking about it with them prior to the game yesterday. But I wasn't going to compare myself to Jay Cutler today in the thread.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:17 PM) Really? That defense works because of Urlacher. Really? That defense works because of Briggs.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:10 PM) You only have to show me the total collapse of the defense in 2009 to tell me that Urlacher isn't overrated. Well, he is an integral part of our defense. That doesn't make him amazing, it just means we had garbage to replace one of the most important positions on the field.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:09 PM) That's pretty funny because Cutler never talks s*** about opposing QBs, actually never talks s*** about anything at all. That's just a manufactured image in peoples heads. It is not. He and Rivers have a huge rivalry from their days in the AFC West together. And there was an awful lot of s***-talking going on.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:03 PM) Then why do people still love Urlacher? Almost every Bears fan I know loves the guy, but everyone I know who has met him despise him because he comes off as an unwelcoming dbag and thinks he's better than us normal humans. Yet, people love him. To me, it never made sense to hate someone or love someone because everyone else does. Form your own opinion based on what you know. If you hate a team, hate them for your own reasons. If you like a team, do it for your own reasons. The same go for players or anything else in life. Too many Indians, and not enough Chiefs. I don't think as many people love Urlacher as much as you think. The media loves him. Why, I am not sure. As Lost mentions, every story that comes out about him paints him as a complete jerk, and these have been coming since the whole Paris Hilton thing. That said, I like him as a player, I think he had a solid year this year, but I think he is indeed overrated. I think most big Bears fans know it is Briggs that is the heart of our defense.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:04 PM) Philip Rivers sides with Cutler. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81de...iticized-cutler One only need to look as far as the first comment below the article to get a sense of how people feel, unfortunately.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:56 PM) What has he done not to endear himself to Bears fans? I know with the media, they hated the fact that he gave cliches as answers because he would never show emotion with them. From what I know, he hasn't been a dbag with the teammates. Again, he can be a better rah rah guy, but at the same time, when you get beatup like he did all season long, eventually it wears on you and you do show frustration. And I disagree about it being one of the best organizations in all of sports. Storied? Yes, but not best. Fine, storied. I'm just going off of just about everyone's reaction to him. I don't think nearly everyone dislikes him simply because he isn't the warmest guy. We are so limited in terms of what knowledge we have of what goes on behind the scenes, but most of the time, if you've got a reputation of being a monster douchebag, it's usually for a reason.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:54 PM) How did Fox not show Collins or Hanie warming up once on their telecast? If it wasn't from being on soxtalk seeing some tweets and what was said on radio, I would have never even known it was possible Cutler was done. They stated coming right out of halftime that he was questionable to return. They then showed Collins warming up a few different times before and after his first series, if just briefly.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:49 PM) I just wonder if Cutler felt exactly the same, but was having a little more success, would he have come out? I've been asking the same question all day. And it bothers me that I am not sure of the answer.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:42 PM) How did he not represent the organization well? He had every opportunity to go at his critics in the postgame interview and he simply responded no comment when I'm sure he wanted to go at everyone. Your leaders on the team don't even question the guy's toughness. I do agree that he needs to be at least a fake rah rah guy to get the guys fired up. I'm talking about over the course of the last two years. People don't like him. There is a reason for it. And it's not just because he gets some bad rap for not treating the media well. So become a leader. Treat people with respect. Grow up. Mature. You've been handed the keys to one of the best organizations in all of sports. Now take advantage of it.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:02 PM) Wow...again. Again, you're having a very hard time separating your "he's not a rah-rah guy" from the actual facts. I mean, you do watch games and watch him get the s*** beat out of him every week, right? Huge difference between "mope" and being tough. It's really stupid to pin it on him because he is "moping." Hell, ever think he's super disappointed that this is the game of his life, and he's too injured to play now? BTW, walking around is a far cry from playing in the game. Cutler's an effective QB partly due to the fact that he makes plays with his feet to keep the play alive. I wish the Bears would have ruled him "out" instead of questionable and put him on a stretcher, because everyone would have a different opinion. However, they did the "questionable" crap because they wanted the Packers to think there was a chance he was coming back into the game. That was also some of the reason for the walking, standing, anything-but-looking-dead look. This was according to Zach Zaidman today, who is on the sideline. Honestly, I have defended him all year. And yes, I have watched all the games. In fact, I live out of town so I paid $300 to do so. I also was wearing a $300 Cutler jersey yesterday, so it isn't like I am someone who just dislikes him. I agree he has taken a beating this year, and he has done so admirably. As for his mopey face, I have watched enough Colts games this year to notice Peyton Manning usually wears a similar look on his face when things aren't going well. Maybe I am being too hard on the guy and asking him to succeed any more than he has in this situation is just too much to ask from him. Maybe no one could have answered the bell this season as well as he did. I guess we will never know. What I do know is that I wanted so badly for Jay to answer his critics yesterday. Trust me, when you walk around with that guy's jersey on in a town other than Chicago, you catch s*** for it. So it's not like I am not a supporter of him. Instead, what happened, is Jay played poorly in the biggest game of his life and then couldn't return to the game even though he could walk around the sidelines. Ultimately, that rubbed me the wrong way. I just wish he would give a crap about what people thought of him. I wish he would represent the organization in a better manner. I wish he would recognize he needs to be a leader, and that means doing things other than just on the field. But I guess he is who he is, and we aren't going to change that. We just have to accept it.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:00 PM) This post: Made it seem like you were questioning if he was really injured or if his sprain was more than a little stretch or discomfort. It was. I am questioning the severity of the injury. I have mentioned several times I believe he was injured.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:57 PM) Again, I can't tell if he had any sort of weak brace on underneath, but that's not what gets you. When I popped my knee, walking straight forwards over open terrain, standing straight up was easy. It's the climbing along the sides of the mountain when your knee has to support sideways forces that really gets you. But what is the downside of taking precautions, Balta? What is the downside of giving him a set of crutches? Or putting a big fat old brace on the knee? If I am to believe that this was such a horrendous injury, I would at least think there would be some sort of precautions taken with the franchise quarterback.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) But he's actually injured! We have a confirmed MRI showing partial tearing. Do you think they're running a whole smoke screen now, going so far as to fake medical reports? Oh, you totally just won the debate! He is injured! No one has ever played injured before!

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) He was laughing at you saying a pro athlete "wants it more". I'd bet pretty much anything a QB in the biggest game of his life "wants it". Oh alright. So now there is no degree of heart or desire or anything that comes into play in professional sports. Because they have all worked hard to get here. Whatever. We see this in all walks of life. Some people are more competitive, more driven, more willing to deal with adversity. I'd bet pretty much anything that if you asked guys around the league they would confirm this.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) You should be able to differentiate the two things. Most people are piling on him because of how the perceive him, because he's not nice. If he was Tim Tebow, with the exact same injury, everyone would be OK with it and not question his toughness. Oh really, it doesn't? It shows it's a damn significant injury. Regardless, he came out of the game. That was his whole point. *************** If you think he's not tough and that he just quit (based on the score or otherwise)...wow. Just wow. Your outrage here is just ridiculous. Give me a damned break. There are people that have played with this exact same injury. Enough with the "wow...Just wow." nonsense. Defend the guy if you like all you want, it doesn't bother me. But to claim that this guy has some infallible history of being the extreme competitor is just so overblown. He is a mope, a dope, he has a reputation as such, and that's why everyone is questioning him. There is a reason this is happening, and it's not because everyone just wants to pick on Jay Cutler. I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The chickens came home to roost, and whether he could go or couldn't go, it's about time the guy changes his attitude and matures.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:44 PM) There are very different. The one thing no one knows is how unstable the knee was. A second degree sprain is a medical diagnosis but doesn't tell you how unstable it was. If every time Cutler tried to stand on it it collapsed, there is no way he could play. He would not be able to move especially side to side. This is where the medical expertise come into play. The second degree sprain will be different from person to person and the stability will return in 3-8 weeks depending on the instability. The medical staff and the coaching staff evaluated him and determined that regardless of how tough he is or isn't, the knee will not function properly to do the job. So they sat him. This is all assuming the coaches are telling the truth. It is possible to have this injury and it get worse over a few plays. Just picture when you roll your ankle. That is a sprain. Sometimes you can walk it off, other times it seems to get worse and you need to stop. They had half time to evaluate it which means the injury was somewhere in the middle where they let him try it at the beginning of the second half. He was riding the bike on the sideline to try to keep it loose. However it was severe enough that they didn't like the way he moved with it and decided to bench him. All I have to say about this is, with how many precautions the league seems to take regarding injuries, especially to a prized quarterback, you think they would have had the knee immobilized or something while he was on the sidelines. Not walking around with no crutches, no ice, not sitting on the bench, but actually standing up and walking around.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:43 PM) Are we also just going to overlook the part about Rivers coming out of the game where he actually got that injury? Well, I wasn't trying to compare Rivers to Cutler, but rather to point out Rivers is the type of player I admire. Secondly, a torn ACL is far, far worse than a torn MCL, is it not?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) Ok, nothing will ever convince you that this was actually a medical decision and not because Jay was a p****, physically or mentally. Why is that something that is laughable? Because I refuse to agree with you? The fact that I would disagree with your weak argument means mine must be wrong by default?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:38 PM) A sprain is a tear. Yes, which is the entire point. Notice how they use the word with the stronger connotation. Honestly, we covered this about 3 hours ago, and you are again doing this "sprain is a tear" nonsense, and yet you are the one pointing to this new diagnosis as if anything has changed. It's pretty damn clear that they used the stronger term this time for a reason.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:33 PM) The point is it's a serious injury that can take weeks to heal, not something you can necessarily brush off and play through. Especially when you need stability in that knee to make good throws and scramble as much as Cutler has to. Seriously, can we just let this go? There is evidence of players playing through it and evidence of players not playing through it. I can clearly recall LT moping on the sideline of the AFC Championship game against the Cotls while Phillip Rivers was running around with a brace on his knee trash talking to the Indy fans. Some guys just seem to want to win more than others. Not saying either is right or wrong for them personally, but as a fan, of course I want someone like Rivers.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) Sean Jensen confirmed that Cutler has a Grade II MCL tear, which typically takes 3-4 weeks to heal. What a p****. Note the use of the word tear, rather than sprain. This is a reaction to the earlier diagnosis of a sprain. Secondly, I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue that Jay was not injured. The fact that it takes 3-4 weeks to heal says nothing about whether he could have played on the injury or not.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:29 PM) LT missed six weeks with a 2nd degree MCL sprain (which is what ptatc thinks it is from seeing the treatment and movement on TV). http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3222896 Oh, and Sanders criticized LT for being a p****, too. Well, playing running back with that injury and playing quarterback with that injury are slightly different, don't you think?