Jenksismyhero

This is just embarassing.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 13, 2013 -> 09:28 AM) eh it seemed more like people went with it out of necessity--you walk to school with your group of people from your block because if you go it alone, you're going to be in trouble. That's why they said you don't "join" a gang anymore than you join "being German" or "being raised Catholic;" it's something you're born into. I don't disagree, but there's still not a reason for the gangs to exist other than tradition. It's not about protecting turf to sell drugs like 20 years ago. So older kids create hostility and the younger kids are incorporated into it and it becomes a cycle.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 13, 2013 -> 09:21 AM) I listened to part I. Thought the comments from the school officials and the police that it doesn't even make sense to say you "join" a gang these days were interesting. Yeah that's pretty messed up. These gangs aren't about money/drugs, it's about pride in your territory. In other words, a total fabrication that gets passed on from kid to kid at a pretty early age. In part 1 and more in part 2, you hear from the social workers/counselors/other staff who genuinely care about what happens to some of those kids. I figured they'd become cynical at some point, but they keep pressing on.

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) How many IU games have you watched from beginning to end this year? Be honest. The fact that you are acting as if you know all about IU basketball is what is the worst. It's idiotic. When I start critiquing Illinois basketball to that degree, tell me to shut up and I'll do so. Until then, don't act as if you are an expert and when an IU fan that has seen way more games than you have disagrees act as if we're stupid. Then again, maybe I am stupid because I am arguing with a brick wall again. Sadly, the brick wall knows about the same amount about IU basketball as you do. I watch way more Big Ten basketball than I should, but i've probably watched Indiana games the second most behind Illinois games. Probably about 10 or 15 at minimum. Probably the same amount, maybe a little less, last year. Two of my good buddies who I talk college basketball with are Indiana fans, the rest are Illinois fans, so debating the two programs is a weekly thing. I've seen how Indiana struggles in the half court. I've seen how they struggle when they can't run. I've seen the leap a guy like Oladipa has made (a point you for some reason continue ignoring) and i've seen the lack of a leap of other guys, including Zeller. It don't have to watch every second of every game and read Peegs in order to see that. Get off your f***ing pedestal. It's Indiana basketball. Congrats to being relevant again. I know it's been a while. You're just being an asshole at this point and you STILL haven't addressed anyone's argument about Crean's coaching ability or his ability to develop guys except to say that he has and that anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. In the adult world that's not how you argue and debate, and everyone sees right through the bulls***.

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 01:24 PM) I think we all agree on this, except for the guy saying Oladipo getting better isn't because of Crean, nor did he get much better until this year. That's just ridiculous homerism. That's not what I said. Learn to read. And player development was ONE critique of mine with Crean, the main one was his ability to read games and adjust gameplans/personnel. Jesus Christ. Indiana fans. The f***ing worst.

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 11:53 AM) He's being an idiot, whether intention or by ignorance I'm not sure. Ever tried to argue with an idiot? It's like banging your head against a very thick wall. You can never win so you just stop. Pot, meet Kettle.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 12, 2013 -> 09:58 AM) He didn't make it one season, though. He improved as much between his freshman and sophomore years as he did between sophomore and junior. I don't think his numbers show that. He played more minutes and so his numbers went up, but his shooting percentages were down. SEASON AVERAGES SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 2012-13 IND 27.8 5.1-8.4 .614 0.8-1.8 .464 2.6-3.5 .745 6.2 2.1 0.8 2.2 2.5 2.3 13.7 2011-12 IND 26.7 3.8-8.0 .471 0.3-1.3 .208 3.0-4.0 .750 5.3 2.0 0.6 1.4 2.5 2.1 10.8 2010-11 IND 18.0 2.8-5.0 .547 0.3-0.8 .308 1.6-2.7 .612 3.7 0.9 0.2 1.1 2.2 1.4 7.4 SEASON TOTALS SEASON TEAM MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS 2012-13 IND 862 159-259 .614 26-56 .464 82-110 .745 193 66 26 69 77 70 426 2011-12 IND 961 136-289 .471 10-48 .208 108-144 .750 191 73 21 49 90 76 390 2010-11 IND 576 88-161 .547 8-26 .308 52-85 .612 119 28 7 34 69 44 236

Since this devolved into a "what's wrong with America thread," did anyone listen to the This American Life radio show/podcast about Harper High School in Chicago? A pretty good listen about how f***ed up an Englewood high school is re: gun violence/problems with gangs/problems with home life. By the end I felt bad for those kids, but kept thinking how much would be different if those kids had fathers as role models instead of "older" gang members.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 10:17 PM) Come on man, you dismissed Oladipo as a "fluke". I would call that the very definition of "poo pooed them away". How many times does a player make a jump from good athlete to national player of the year in one season? Not very many. That's the definition of a fluke. No one, including Crean, would have ever thought he could play at that level. And as I explained before, I'm not sure the areas where he jumped can be attributable to coaching, though I did concede that Crean probably gets credit for his basketball IQ, which is very high.

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 06:47 PM) When you are that wrong, there is no need to argue. That said, I have addressed the same topics in replies to others. There is just no need to get into something with someone making hamburgers up. I'll simply say it gain. If you claim that the majority of Indiana's players have not improved under Tom Crean, then you know nothing about basketball or are spewing something based off watching a highlight or two. It's simply not even CLOSE to accurate. Again, no response. Look, reasonable people can disagree. You've been given examples by me but poo pooed them away. You've been given stats but poo pooed them away. Just nut up and say you disagree and give me an example of a play or skill you think Crean assisted with instead of resorting to lame personal attacks about my knowledge of basketball.

QUOTE (Rex Hudler @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 04:08 PM) It's more someone talking about about the coach/program who shows some accuracy in what they say is what we're looking for. The stuff you are spewing is so off base it's not worth arguing. Make an argument with some solid facts and I'll be happy to listen. Or better yet, how about posting your basketball coaching resume and enlighten us with what you know about the game. Certainly in your posts today, I haven't read much at all. Its a pretty telling sign that you continue to evade giving any sort of response other than "oh you must be blind and stupid to think that way."

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) The greatest player who ever lived had numbers that didn't drastically improve percentage-wise between his freshman and junior seasons. I wouldn't say Dean Smith was a horrible developer of talent. Indiana is hated. I get it. I don't like them either. But they won. They get the credit. People just sound like Cubs fans pointing out White Sox attendance when they want to discredit Crean. If I were an Indiana fan on here I would just tell all the haters, "you're right, he can't develop players and he's a horrible in game coach. Your guy is far better. Enjoy 5th place." He won the Big Ten. Just give him his due and move on. A college coach is the Coach, GM and Chairman of his team. For this season, up until now, Crean has been better than all the other Big Ten coaches if you base it on results. Which would be fine if we're talking about this season and this season alone. But we're not. We're talking about Crean's ability to sustain this success for multiple years into the future. In 2005 I could have argued Illinois was going to be an annual big ten/national title contender. They had just gotten to the NC game and had a national coach of the year. Fool proof! How'd that turn out?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 02:06 PM) You say that as though it proves anything. I think Phil Jackson became too wedded to his triangle offense format and Thibs rides his starters too hard. It doesn't prove it, but it discounts someone's assertion that you're totally wrong and illogical in having those opinions.

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 01:55 PM) Seems to me that you're just looking at stats and saying "oh, he regressed from last year". It's called TALENT INFLUX. So because Watford doesn't take over games like he used too, he regressed? Um no, it's because Zeller and Oladipo are two of the top players in country. Who does IU go to when they need something? Those two. Watford, Hulls, and Sheehey fill their role extremely well because they don't have to "get theirs" to be happy. Which is why Indiana is one of the top 2-3 TEAMS in the country. As for Hulls, he's one of the smartest defenders on the team. He definitely has his limitations. I mean, look at him. Did you expect him to suddenly grow some length, height, and improve 10" on his vertical? Come on man. I haven't looked at the stats at all. I've watched a lot of big ten games and I talk to my indiana friends who agree with me. As to Watford, he was terrible for the majority of the year. It's not that he didn't get the number of shots, it's that he sucked and never fit into the flow of the game. That's regression in my book. Look, I get it. You don't want people talking bad about your coach/program. But i'm not the first or last person to question Crean's coaching ability.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) He just won the Big Ten. The Indiana roster is his responsibility. I'm no Indiana fan, and Crean has always seemed a little odd to me, but coaches that win, whether they are known to be the greatest at designing out of bounds plays or not, are doing something right. Would Marquette rather have had Crean be known as a better Xs and Os guy and not land Wade? Getting Wade is part of his job. This year he won the Big Ten. All the other stuff is nitpicking. Would you rather have a guy considered a better game coach and come in 5th? As long as he's doing it cleanly, I don't see how Crean, if he keeps landing these recruits, is not worth his weight in gold. But i'm hearing all this crap about Indiana being "back." Well, they're back to competing and recruiting with other teams on the same level. So yes, talent helps, but he's not going to have 2 national player of the year candidates on the same team again. So his coaching is going to come up at some point in the future, with or without talent. You know who else always has a ton of talent? Rick Barnes. He's about to be unemployed. And i've said about 5 times I give Crean all the credit in the world for his recruiting successes. He's obviously very good at that and that's 75% of being successful in college basketball. But i'm arguing he's still limited and Indiana might be hurt for it going forward. As always, we shall see.

And I'll add the player development isn't the only thing I question about Crean. I've mentioned his substitution patterns, which leads me to believe that he doesn't really read the momentum of games properly (often pulling the gun too early or waiting too long). And this team still doesn't run a great half court game. I get that they're at their best when they run and gun, but in the tournament that might come back to bite them. Again, equally hating on Groce, he has the exact same problem. He lets negative runs go on for way too long, and even when his team is going 8-9 minutes without a bucket he rarely, if ever, calls a set play to try and manufacture points. I give Groce the benefit of the doubt though since i've had 4 years to see how weak minded/basketball stupid his players are (Paul in particular) . And you can almost see the line in games where Illinois' ability just stops and they can't do any better. Crean has better players that don't have the same limits.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 01:45 PM) How much improvement are you looking for? I'm not suggesting there was monumental improvement, but I think there's more than you're admitting to. Didn't you guys want to see more growth out of Zeller? Didn't you want Watford to play better this year and not regress? Didn't you want Hulls to learn how to play defense for one game in 4 years at IU? As an equal opportunity hater, i'm just as unimpressed with Groce's ability to coach. I think Henry is the only guy that got better as the season went along. Everyone else has maintained (Richardson, Griffey, Abrams, Egwu) or regressed (Paul, Bertrand).

QUOTE (He_Gawn @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) LMAO Good lord... Nice retort. Show me an example. Is Zeller better this year than last year? Hulls? Wafford? How about Yogi from the non conference to the conference season? Crean's accomplishments have come from having a top 50 all time NBA player and 2 National Player of the Year nominees on the same team. If you're seriously suggesting it's because of his ability to coach em up, you have not been paying attention. I'm not at all suggesting he can't coach - he's been a coach at two high level D1 schools, obviously he can to some degree. I'm just saying he's not known for his coaching and hasn't really shown the ability to out coach some of the other really good coaches in the league to this point.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) Hulls you have a point, but Sheehey does way more than shoot the ball. He's been cold lately, I'll grant you that, but Sheehey's at his best when he's not just shooting the ball. But again, I think it's shortchanging Crean to say "he just simply has better players" as if they showed up out of the blue in Bloomington, no thanks to him or his staff. However, I think that "coaching" and "recruiting" are not as easily separated as the conventional wisdom seems to think they are. EDIT: Rereading your post, I think you're doing a disservice to Oladipo too. He does give Derrick Rose style effort, but his "skills" have also definitely improved year-over-year. Shooting and ball handling mostly. For sure, recruiting he should get all the credit. I just haven't been very impressed with his coaching skills. As to Oladipo, he's a great player. But he's not a guy that's going to score you points on traditional plays. Does he make the occasional open three? Sure. Can he make the occasional drive? Sure. But 90% of his game is put-backs and transition points. And that's great, and he's been great. But I'm not sure how much a coach can really teach those things.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 12:27 PM) I think Crean gets a bad rap. He came in with the reputation of being a great recruiter and not so great a coach, and it's hard to shake those. Did he oversub too much in the first half? Yes. But then at the end of the game, he made the smart move by not calling a timeout to allow Michigan to catch their breath since Michigan was out of timeouts. Just little things like that. You're also short changing other things Crean does. Consider the bolded -- who brought those players in? Crean and his staff. Even more to the point of "coaching credentials" is that you mentioned Oladipo. He didn't exactly come to Bloomington as some highly touted recruit, and now he might be the National Player of the Year. Most of the credit goes to Oladipo and his work ethic, but I'm guessing Crean had a little bit to do with the development of him and Sheehey as well. All of this is why I like Crean the Coach, even if I'm not so much a fan of Crean the Person. Though, since I've been critical of Crean the Person in the last several posts, I will say that I've frequently heard stories of the good things he does around Monroe County. Not just the "LOOK AT ME I'M AT A CHARITY GALA" type stuff, just helping people out when cameras aren't around. See, I would argue that he hasn't really made any of his players better, he just simply has better players. Zeller hasn't gotten much better in his two years. He still has the same good skills, as well as the same weaknesses to his game. Oladipo made the jump, but I think everyone would agree that was sort of an unexpected fluke. It's not like his basketball "skills" have increased, he just gives 110% Derrick Rose style effort and has a knack for making critical plays at critical times in the game. I guess that can be Crean influencing his basketball IQ, but I dunno, he's still not some guy you want dribbling the ball needing a basket. He's the perfect glue guy, not the go-to-guy. Hulls/Watford/Sheehey do what they've always done at IU - shoot the ball. If they aren't hitting their shots they don't impact the game that much.

Illinois v. Minnesota - which s***ty team shows up to play?

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 12:03 PM) I can only speak about the Indiana fans I know. I generally dont even speak about the school anymore because its just not worth dealing with the fans. You are reasonable, which is why I edited my post. My two friends that are die hard Indiana fans have taken many positions - Sampson was the savior after Mike Davis. When he got caught cheating it wasn't a big deal and was blown out of proportion. When the sanctions came down it became a big deal because Indiana wasn't a program like "that." When they hired Crean it was "well, he was OK at Marquette" and they hoped he would bring them back to mediocrity to get another big time coach. And of course now Crean is the answer and they're "back" with no signs of ever giving up the reigns of being a big ten/national contender annually. As an Illinois fan stuck in a near 10 year fall from the best 10 years in the program's history, I can appreciate the excitement. But the over-hype is going to cause a pretty brutal fall when Indiana inevitably disappoints in the tournament. Final Four is an absolute minimum expectation. I feel bad for these guys if Indiana plays a team that watched Wisconsin game tape.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Mar 11, 2013 -> 12:04 PM) Jenks, Crean isnt a great X/O coach. The scary part is that if Indiana ever got rid of Crean they could possibly get a guy who would be devastating (Brad Stevens). Im just hoping they hold onto Crean long enough that Stevens already has a big time job. Has Stevens ever mentioned Indiana? Is Indiana really one of those top 5 programs? He just took two teams from Butler to the championship game, so it's not like you need to be one of "those" programs to win consistently. I dunno, I think he's Duke bound or he's staying where he is - making a ton of money with half the hassle of a big time program.

Do people really think Crean is a good coach? He seems to get outcoached quite a bit and his substitution patterns always seem to screw momentum up in bad ways. I think he finally got some talent and inherited a great home court. I'm interested to see where he takes the program from here. No Zeller, Oladipo, Watford or Hulls. Even with a couple of good recruiting classes, I think this is their year to take a shot at the title before dropping back to the middle of the pack in the Big Ten.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Mar 8, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) We still have judges that say that s***: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012...apologized.html http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/09/0...ower-to-change/ Interesting that the 2nd example was a female judge.