Jenksismyhero

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 03:37 PM) I think a lot of the outrage I've seen is because of what ND did to purposely cover this up and also the amount of public effort they put into this vs actual tragedies. This.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 01:14 PM) Come to Minnesota! It's a great state. Plus, no sales taxes on "staples" like food and clothing. Not sure what the income tax is like right now, I'm too poor of a student to worry about that. No seriously, I'm actually a big fan of living here. The only problem is that whoever designed the highway system here, especially the on/off ramps, has a lower IQ than Oney Guillen. Yeah my buddy moved up there a couple of years ago. We visit about once a year and hit up Ghastoff's every time. I love the city, even with all the hipsters.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:45 AM) Which is why I'm totally onboard with voluntary jobs, education and community programs. Picking up trash for 40 hours a week isn't going to land you the types of jobs that are actually open right now. The city isn't going to be massively expanding payrolls--state and local governments have cut huge amounts of jobs over the past several years, something that's really hampered the recovery. Here's an example of the type of s***ty jobs available and why it's so hard to climb out of poverty: http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/12/13/mc...od-retail-ceos/ Those comparisons are so awful. How much money does the CEO make the company/other people? How about that worker? What prevented said worker from getting a different job? McDonald's hires new managers all the time, they make more than 8.25 an hour. Why didn't he become a manager? And ANY job experience is better than NO job experience. Not sure why your standard is so high here. Is a mandatory jobs program going to lead to an engineering gig in 2 years paying 125k? Nope. But perhaps he gets off the government payroll and his/her next generation sees the value of education and better work and they move up the ladder.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:41 AM) I don't see why you should take out top-level CEO salary. Do we take out top-level administration (vastly lower than their private sector counterparts) in the public sector, too? I think including the very small number of people making millions a year inflates the average private sector number. If you want to look at the "real" comparison you have to take those out. Public sector counterparts still make good money, but it's 5-6 times the average, not 50-100 (or more)

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) http://www.salon.com/2013/01/17/notre_dames_double_standard/ Eh, that got some play for a while. But suicides are common, even if sad and pathetic on the part of ND. This story with Te'o is so unique. I'm not sure if there's ever been anything like it.

He brought this all on himself. He continued to bring it up in interviews. He got millions of people to feel bad for him over a lie or at best a half truth.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) It's only a temp job, if you don't work to do anything else. As I stated earlier. Make a college prep part of it or something else.It's not like the current system is preparing them for anything else. Many people go into a depression and lose self-worth when they aren't a contributer to society. I really believe you will help the self image of many people by giving them employment along with monetary aid, instead of just monetary aid with no contribution. Not to mention the key part to this - a lot of these people are now working at jobs instead of on the streets causing trouble. And SS, how is holding a temp job not a marketable skill? When you go from "I sit at home and play on my Xbox all day" to "i work 40 hours a week with a great ability to multi-task!" how is that not better? And as I said before, make it an incentive program to eventually get hired with the city.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Government workers are generally paid less than their private-sector colleagues. Duke doesn't know what he's talking about. When you take out top level CEO's that skew the numbers, I don't think this is true at all, especially when you consider employment benefits.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:46 AM) Not to mention all of the specialized scholarship programs available specifically for non-white, non-male, non-"affluent" students. BUT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THOSE PROGRAMS AND SOCIETY ACTIVELY PREVENTS THOSE PEOPLE FROM LEARNING ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:49 AM) If you are at the poverty level and are on public aid, you will find the rest of the money for college. The university can get the money for you partially by finding a job for you at the university. Yep, I did that too - a work study program. I washed dishes for 2 semesters (and then moved onto a job at the library). I didn't get a penny out of it in my pocket. It went straight to my tuition.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:43 AM) hmm... i didn't realize that stafford loans could cover the ENTIRE cost of schooling. wonder why i didn't do that then... oh wait, because they don't. Dude, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. None. For the people we're talking about - who won't be going to schools costing 50k/year - they can borrow as much money as they want to cover everything - tuition, books, room and board, etc. I did this as a poor (but white and advantaged!) law student.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:37 AM) hm. this is fascinating. and there really isn't a difference from loan to loan right? none of them gouge you with higher interest rates or other fine print right? every loan that's available to the public certainly doesn't try to take advantage of them in any way right? get off your pedestal. you have no idea what you're talking about. LOL, oh that's rich.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:35 AM) Affluent whites who grew up in college-educated homes and had good schools that had experience helping students navigate the maze of financial aid have advantages over people who didn't grow up in those circumstances. The maze of financial aid? WTF? You download the form, fill out your name and the school you're attending and the school/government does the rest. It's easier than the application process to the school you want to go to. It's not rocket science and any counselor, teacher, computer or phonebook can provide you with the information you need. My parents figured out how to do it on their own. They didn't "grow up in those circumstances" either. That's just another lame excuse.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) People right now have actual, full-time jobs to fill potholes and work as laborers. Why would you want to replace gainfully employed people with temporary, inexperienced, constant-turnover workforce? Unless you're advocating for a huge new jobs program, which, again, I'm for. I'm for an additional jobs program, yes. Adding to the existing workforce would not replace or take away jobs. I'm quite confident the City could find work for tens of thousands of people. There is plenty of work to go around.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) I'm sorry... really? who's gonna lend you money when you're living on foods stamps? The government will lend you any amount of money you need so long as it goes to education. There's no application really beyond name/address.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 08:08 AM) http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/0...dia-blew-it-up/ That's kinda where I come down on this - it was probably real (even if a hoax) at first, but then Te'o took the media sympathy/publicity and ran with it. I still think ND is shady for sitting on this story and allowing news organizations to put out interviews and pieces about this girl knowing full well none of it was real. Whatever it takes to keep the brand clean! They should get sanctioned for that.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:11 AM) tuition costs say hello. It's called borrowing. All of us affluent whites know that loophole!

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 08:31 AM) So we're all onboard with tax increases for all of the administrative costs of this program then? Or will this entire program be staffed, managed and executed by people who may only be temporarily unemployed and may have no relevant background or experience for the jobs you'd task them with? what happens if the person babysitting for food stamps doesn't show? how much harder is it going to be to look for full-time employment or to get training/education while you're dealing with this program? What about suburban or rural poverty? edit: I would totally support, in times like these, a voluntary CCC or WPA-like program. I do not support turning a safety net into mandatory labor. Taxes are going up to solve the poverty problem anyway, so I would much rather it go into a system like this where we can actually see a benefit. Cleaning was just one type of job I threw out as an example. People could fill potholes, work on construction projects as laborers, work in volunteer centers or day care centers etc. It would be a good opportunity for advancement with current city/state employees since they can start managing the new "volunteer" work force, and you could also create an incentive program for the "volunteers" to get full time employment. If we're going to pay these people, they might as well have a job to be paid for.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 08:42 PM) It has a lot to do with how government and society treat those groups and how they've been treated historically. These things don't arise in a vacuum. It's also not a strictly urban or racial problem, either. There's plenty of rural white poverty that isn't "third world." I agree with the second part of that statement, not the first. We provide the poor in this country with every opportunity to NOT be poor. It's up to them to utilize the assistance properly. And yes, there is a lot of rural poor in this country and even this state. The difference is that those people generally stay quiet and just live their lives, whereas the poor in the City commit crime and keep other people from getting out.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 07:54 PM) if anyone thinks Republicans care more about getting people out of poverty than Dems you are awfully mistaken. Ugh, get out of here with this bulls***. I'm not attacking people that are liberal, i'm attacking failed policies.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 07:11 PM) It would make them temporary labor in exchange for meager benefits. The city/state would lose skilled and experienced employees with a career in exchange for temporary labor making little money. And where is the finding for these public projects going to come from? It isn't free to run an operation. They get paid already. It's called the house, food, school supplies, baby supplies, healthcare, etc. they pay little to nothing to get. And how would the city/state lose workers? This city has a bazillion areas that need to be cleaned up. The City doesn't have the manpower or money to pay for it. Take a housing project, require they sign up for work in various city/county departments, boom, the city gets cleaned up a little. People start working all day instead of getting in trouble. They learn job skills, perhaps some eventually move onto bigger and better things.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 06:34 PM) Where was the Tea Party from 2001-2008 when the "fiscal cliff/debt ceiling" was really beginning to become a problem? Where were those people speaking out on behalf of not increasing the military/defense budget every year? If you want to talk about a truly HORRIBLE return on investment, look no further than Afghanistan and the Middle East. What do we have to show for all those trillions of dollars spent? Money that wasn't spent on Americans...is the world really a safer place? Lots of policies by governments have failed, but just as many have been foreign as domestic/social programs. Um, ok? What's this have to do with a failure of liberal policy in this state for decades?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) Government is a community working together through democratic means. Plenty of other countries have more robust government programs and much less economic stratification and poverty problems. You want kids to have knowledge, start with better schools and better funding for them and other educational and outreach programs. No one was the subcultures that we have. Parts of the City of Chicago are third world countries. And that has nothing to do with how much the governemnt or society provides those people.

And really my position on this is that it's not a problem that conservative policies can fix either. It's an individual/community based problem that government cannot - and will never - solve. When you grow up in s***ty neighborhoods with s***ty parents, it really doesn't matter if your check every week is 200 bucks or 2000 bucks. You need the knowledge and the desire to get out of that situation and live on your own and government will never provide that.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 05:18 PM) Eliminating public housing, healthcare and food security will motivate the poors to finally get off their lazy asses and take one of those jobs none of the Job Creators can fill. No, but making them temporary and/or requiring public works employment for those entitlements would be a step in the right direction.