Vance Law

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 10:13 PM) 100+ million dollar contract + Tigers and possibly Rangers are in the bidding. My guess is no. That's my guess too. But if there's any player on the market that really fits our long term needs and has a good shot at actually coming close to earning his contract I'd peg Choo at maybe #1. Ellsbury and McCann (and Cano because of those years and dollars) seem like prime candidates not to. A disproportionate amount of Ellsbury's value comes from his speed which you can expect to evaporate over those last years. I think Choo will be a more valuable player over the next 7 years. Any catcher not named A.J. you can expect get dinged up and spend some time on the DL, which McCann is already no stranger to. And what were you going to do, give him a 6th year? Or more $$ than the Yankees? He'll cost a ton but if there's any player I could see us making an under the radar push for, I can't think of anyone who makes more sense. If the Mariners can find $250 million.....

Does anyone think we could be total dark horse to go after Choo? There's maybe no other hitter who's talents most perfectly hit what we need and he's better than any OF free agent next year. It's free agency, so it's an ultimately an overpay, but the salary obligations after this year are virtually nothing. Plus, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Angels don't figure to be in on the bidding. Consider also that we don't have a legit outfielder who has shown they can even hit at AA. I don't think anyone here would complain about Choo's defense in center compared to De Aza, and as soon as next year (or further down the road) he can move to left with Tank going to DH. He's only 30 (2 years younger than Granderson) and seems like the kind of guy who's offensive value isn't going to totally deteriorate as he can be moved along the defensive spectrum from CF to corner to DH if need be.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) Abreu says hello. I would think that he meant now that we already have 3 of them. I would put the odds of the Sox choosing to add a 4th at 0%. Adding low ceiling 1st baseman who's had 2 good years in his last 5 to a multi year deal is the least likely thing the Sox will do, as it should be.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 7, 2013 -> 01:20 AM) Isn't Beltran going to DH??? Soriano is their primary dh

Getting Franklin from Seattle for something centered around Dunn and Santiago is wishful thinking right?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 06:47 PM) And a marginal downgrade on their bench/roster. So add up the two things and see what you come up with. Assign a value to Konerko taking those at bats from Dunn. Assign a value to a backup SS who starts 5 games. Subtract B from A. If the result is not somehow a big negative, then the overreaction on this board has been, as I said, beyond silly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2013 -> 05:52 PM) Abreu should be pushed past 150 games this year. But Alexei will suffer a certain injury if he continues to play 156 games or more like he has the past four years?? That is the sum total of your argument for why signing Konerko is somehow the worst thing ever. It would be foolish to not waste a roster spot on a backup shortstop who will not play at all is your argument. A backup shortstop who doesn't play is more valuable than a platooner who'll perhaps start 40 or 50 games. As support for this you've offered no reasonable quantitative projections/estimates/analysis because there is none. The White Sox signing Konerko as their 25th man will be a low-cost marginal upgrade on their DH situation (if nothing further happens). The overreactions to this non-event are beyond silly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 07:14 PM) That the White Sox used the final backup IF on the roster at least 50% more than the role Konerko will get if he just subs for Dunn, and that's without Alexei ever getting a day off. For Konerko to just get as much usage as the last IF on the White Sox roster he's going to take 100+ PA's from Abreu. First, you accidentally (or conveniently) excluded more than 20% of Dunn's PA's last year against lefties. It was 142. But secondly, and more importantly, yes Konerko will get way way more PA's if either Abreu or Dunn breaks a bone in their hand, pushing Paulie into more action. Beckham's injury last year, as you know, explains Greene's playing time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:51 PM) Just to be clear...Adam Dunn got 110 PA's total against LH starters last year. Tyler Green was on the roster 2 months and he got 1/2 that many PA's as the final, backup IF. I'm not sure what point you're making. That in addition to being bad, Greene barely played at all making his presence on the roster even more pointless and confounding?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:27 PM) It would have been hard for there to be much outrage about Hudson or Olmedo in December as Hudson was added to the roster in May and Olmedo in August. True. I mean at the time of their signing, before they played an inning. Their mere existence on the roster (despite their being devoid of value) did not generate a fraction of the ire that the re-signing (for a limited role) of the team's best hitter against lefties.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:26 PM) They each brought a minor skill of some slight utility to the table. Paul Konerko able to pinch hit and hit left-handers on a roster already dominated by righties, It seems like you're intentionally failing to be specific. Doesn't matter how many righties are or aren't on the roster, we're specifically talking about the clear upgrade of Konerko taking regular at bats away from Dunn (while Keppinger is already starting at third).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:50 PM) I think there was plenty of outrage over Hudson and Olmedo I would say not to this extant....and in December QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 06:50 PM) But yes, I do think Rey Olmedo and Paul Konerko bring similar things to the 2012 and 2014 white sox, respectively. I don't think you really think that. I suspect that you are well aware of the relative value of having Paul Konerko hit lefties instead of Adam Dunn vs. whatever it is that Ray Olmedo does.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:12 PM) Worth noting is that Olmedo got that roster spot because Eduardo Escobar was traded away and the White Sox...needed a backup who could play IF positions in addition to Orlando Hudson. They carried 2 backup IF's that year...and used both. So the Sox wasted 2 (2!) roster spots with Ray Olmedo and Orlando Hudson at the same time!? Where was the outcry from this board over that? Alexei Ramirez starts 157 games a year. I would love to see anyone do quantitative analysis of the expected difference in value between any of those guys and Konerko. If (if! it's still early and I expect there will be changes) there were no more changes to the roster among the starters, what would be the best way to improve the offense? A platoon partner for Viciedo or Garcia or Ramirez or Beckham? None of those things were ever remotely going to happen for 2014. How about creating the pretext for taking the bat out of Adam Dunn's hands against lefties?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:46 PM) Exactly. Which leads to the key question...why is this guy taking up a spot on the bench when he's not even the right option to PH for most of our lineup? Why did the White Sox use a roster spot for Angel Sanchez last year? Or Tyler Greene? And why were you not apoplectic about it? How much value did Ray Olmedo bring to the team in 2012 vs. how much Konerko will? Will there be a huge difference, and in Olmedo's favor? If you honestly think the difference between wasting a roster spot with Sanchez or Greene or Olmedo somehow results in even 1 win more than with Paul Konerko taking the bat out of Adam Dunn's hands against lefties, then by all means keep having a huge reaction to this.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 05:21 PM) Just to stress though...in all of these situations other than Phing for the lefties, by having our PH guy be a righty, we're sacrificing any shot at having a positive matchup. So in all those cases, it's Konerko versus a righty. Why would Konerko be put in to pinch hit versus a righty? Why wouldn't it be Gillaspie or Danks? (Or Loboton?)

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 09:51 AM) With the Sox defense last year we need all the defensive replacements we can get. So Konerko's spot should be used for a defensive replacement--- for who?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 09:38 AM) Sanchez or Greene because they aren't taking away at-bats from the 2nd most important player in the franchise's future. Adam Dunn?

QUOTE (daggins @ Dec 5, 2013 -> 12:25 AM) it eats up a spot that could be used for a more versatile, young player. Like Angel Sanchez? Or Tyler Greene? If you have a starting shortstop like Alexei who is going to play 158 games, does it make any sense to waste a roster spot for an entire season with his defensive replacement? A guy who will start 4 games? Or does it make sense to give a cheap contract to a guy who may start 50 games who put up a .923 OPS against lefties last year?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 09:39 PM) Alexei had zero days off last year until August because Beckham is not playing short. Beckham did play short in 2 games this year and would be just fine to start there in the 1 or 2 theoretical games that Alexei could potentially take off during the year.

Oh boy. I agree with pretty much everything Dick Allen and Jose Paniagua are saying and disagree with pretty much everything Balta is saying. This low-risk move with the 25th roster spot is no biggie.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 09:22 PM) Or they think last year was a fluke. I have to think some other major plans are in the offing either with catcher or with other positions. Most of the board here earlier wanted Salty if we couldn't get McCann, and the estimates then were closer to 4 years and $35-$40 mil. Perhaps that means a no-biggie addition like Loboton along with bigger moves with some of the other underperforming positions. We're getting Cano, is my point.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 12:00 AM) Sounds reasonable. He's a lefty, younger than I always think he is. I think the Mets will nab Arenciba though. He's a righty. Career .609 OPS.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 03:51 PM) I don't see the necessity of having a left handed hitting back up on this team. Again, I think the goal is to find a catcher you believe will be able to be a starter going forward. I guess I assumed the lefty as being the starter. A righty who can hit right handers would be just fine, too. We don't have any of those either. With someone like Navarro, who has hit in the past (last year, 2008) and also not hit (many other years) you could pencil him in as the strong side of the platoon and see if Flowers (Phegley) can outplay him for the job. Perhaps $8 mil was too much for that not guaranteed anything.

While Hanigan would definitely be an upgrade, he hits right-handed just like Flowers and Phegley. I'm really interested to see what Hahn does because based on his comments, he's not going with Flowers/Phegley again. We'll know today whether or not Flowers is tendered a contract, which I would guess means Phegley back to AAA. The Sox didn't go for Dioneer Navarro who's getting 2 years/ $8 mil from the Blue Jays, which means the only lefty catcher's on the market are Salty and A.J. Otherwise there's the trade route with guys like Jaso or Hanigan. Or some other blockbuster we can't exactly picture just yet.

Will be interesting to see what Hahn does. Because it seems they've been clear that Flowers/Phegley is way too cruddy, but who's left? AJP, Navarro, Hannigan? Seems increasingly like Red Sox will shell out for Salty.