Soxplosion

Thanks for this. I agree that Vietnam probably just started for the sake of ridding the planet of Communism. And another thought, I think all the major wars weve been in since WWI you can say are related. WWI happened and gave birth to the Nazi movement in Germany. WWII ended with the Americans and Russians in a political stalemate. Our hatred of Communism gave way to the Korean and Vietnam Wars. Then, in 1979, due again to our hatred of Communism, we backed up the Afghans in the Afghan War. This brought bin Laden to Afghanistan and when we left the Afghans in the dirt (ok, so were not perfect) after the Soviets pulled out bin Laden had an extreme anti American hatred. So then we had the Persian Gulf War and bin Laden hated our new Mid East policy. He carried out the atrocities on Sept 11 and now were in the War on Terror. Just an interesting thought of recent world history...

No we dont. France and countries like that just like to insult us when stuff like that happens. They always enjoy insulting us. When we helped them out in 1946 Sinclair said he was there to see Americans get "insulted and swindled in the streets". I lived in Spain. Everybody there hated the US. They had never been here, they didnt know anything about us but they just didnt like us. Even tho my Spanish colleagues thought they were superior, they simply hated us because they knew we were superior. They knew that if America ever got sick of seeing them they would be instantly wiped off the face of the planet. Thats why all foreign countries who hate us hate us.

I still don't believe everyone is built for the military or should serve in the military. Here we have the right to chose whether we enlist or not, just like we have the right to chose our job. I admire your son and I respect all those in the military as well as the police, and fire departments, but that doesn't mean I have to do it. Thank goodness there are a lot of people out there that do want to do it. We all need doctors too, but thats not what I'm going to be either. The thing is, here in America we aren't forced to enlist in the military like they are in Korea. Man, I think it would suck if everyone had to enlist. Well first off our military would be huge. Secondly, If we think military spending is high now, well then guess what it will be when they are having to pay salaries or college fees to even more people. Lastly, just because i"m not in the military doesn't mean I can't have a belief. If I believe we should help another nation, doesn't mean I personally have to back it up. I'll do my part, but I'd like to think I could do it in other ways, such as morally supporting the troops or doing my best to support the economy and this country or plenty of other things. On a last part, the Revolutionary war was completely different. It was on OUR soil, this is somewhere else. Your damn right if it was on our soil I'd be backing it up or if it was for our freedom. This war is for other peoples freedom. I may not be over in the Gulf with people like your son or Nuke and God Bless them and all the other troops over there, but it doesn't mean I can't say I'm for the war. Thats for damn sure. Saddam is a tyran thats killed his own people. Why would he hesitate doing the same on the US or other countries. Just cause France doesn't find it a big worry isn't my problem and I don't think its the US's problem. Plenty of countries are supporting us in this issue. Saddam needs to be stopped. He's been given numerous chances to disarm and comply with inspections and he's never done so. Why the hell would he change now. Do we have to wait until he kills more? First off, chisoxfn, I respect you. Just to get that straight. But with a war in Iraq, its almost a 99% chance that you wont be killed. For the young soldiers serving in Kuwait, its possible they could be killed. They are in harms way. I dont agree with cw in that all supporters of the war should enlist but I think youre also wrong to say that by supporting the troops morally you are in harms way. I have nothing against you, so dont think that. Just wanted to point this out...

I don't care how you lean politically, you still can't be serious is you're comparing America's situation in Vietnam with France's in World War II. Apples and oranges. Im not comparing the two and Im truly sorry if I led you to believe that. Im just saying why should we help other countries when they would never help us. Who put us in charge of that? Well, as we all know, France did help us, so there goes that point. And the only reason we've ended up in any other war isn't because we wanted to help out others, its because we've either been attacked (War of 1812, World War II, Spanish-American-Filipino-Cuban War (probably didn't get attacked, but we thought we did), Vietnam War (though we all know now the Gulf of Tonkin incident never actually happened)) or we felt threatened enough to engage in combat (World War I, Persian Gulf War, Korean War)... The United States has never entered combat solely to "lend a hand." Im not talking about wars. Im talking about financial and humanitarian aid. When disasters strike our country (like tornadoes, not Sept 11, with all the different nationalities that dies you could probably consider that an international incident) nobody helps but when such disasters strike other countries were always one of the first to help. And cw, theres no need to get bent out of shape about this. Countries can send their troops to war with us but these same countries dont help us with what happens here while we always help them over there. And doub, can you tell me about the Gulf of Tonkin? What happened and why dont you believe it? Im not putting you on the spot, I just believe we could have a much better discussion if everyone was equally informed. Thanks...

Thank you doub! The French, in my opinion, simply ended it quicker. The tides of the war were turning in our favor and we were starting to learn how to defeat the Brits. I think we coulda done it without the French, but Ill admit that atleast one time in history the French helped with something...

I don't care how you lean politically, you still can't be serious is you're comparing America's situation in Vietnam with France's in World War II. Apples and oranges. Im not comparing the two and Im truly sorry if I led you to believe that. Im just saying why should we help other countries when they would never help us. Who put us in charge of that?

You fail to realize that without France, the United States wouldn't even be a country. Instead of going on uninformed tirades on how about France owes us, maybe all you hawks should look at history and realize that WE OWE FRANCE. We would have won the revolutionary war on our own. The French just made it faster. Now, in 1956 France was about to collapse and we saved em. They came back and spit right in our face. Screw the French. Oh my God, you have to be joking me. We would have NEVER won the Revolutionary War without France, I cannot believe you are so uninformed as to say that. Britain had a Navy, we didn't, simple as that. The French are the biggest pussies in the history of the World. I dont care if they help us. I dont care if they intervene against us with the military. Thatll just be our excuse for beating them silly. Screw the French.

I have it in a book. I love it. Its my favorite thing Ive read. Gordon Sinclair is a genius. Buy the book Chicken Soup for the Soul of America which you can find in about any bookstore and the articles in the book. Tribute to America, the last thing in the World Responds section. Hope that helps you find it baggs... And doublem, what do you think Im kidding about? Im dead serious. I dont think we need foreign help. We can fight a war in Iraq without, say, Frances help (Im not sure how such a bunch of morons could help anyways but whatever) and we can do whatever we want without foreign help. Im not ripping you for being a liberal so dont rip me for being a conservative...

What? Are you talking that with wars like Vietnam we dont deserve anyone elses help? If you are, I say youre nuts but Im not sure so I wont comment until you clarify that. Personally, I dont think this nation needs anyone elses help but some people seem to think we should help everyone else even tho no matter what happens they would never help us...

I recently read a 30 year old commentary from a Canadian man named Gordon Sinclair. It was possibly one of the best things Ive ever read. Youre not going to find any links on it but maybe later if I have enough time I copy it down on here for you all to see. This post is not to bash those who think differently from me but it is to make you think. Sinclairs main point in the article was that Americans always rush to the aid of other countries but no one has ever come to our aid since the French did in the Revolutionary War. Some people here think we should go and help all these countries out. Why exactly should we do that? We helped the French out before and they got up and spit in our face. The papers in these countries that we have helped, rather than thank us, kick us around. In no way am I saying we need to recieve to give. But come on, isnt it a bit hypocritical that all these countries think when they fall down we have to come pick them up but when we fall down they can leave us there? Yes it is. Who made it our duty to save everyone else? Sinclair refers to the Americans as "the most generous but possibly least appreciated people on Earth". Hes darn right. God bless you Gordon Sinclair!

Thanks cw. What year was it? I thought it was 1946 but I guess Im wrong. All I know is that somewhere around there France was in deep trouble and we helped them out. And Im definitely going to join the military. Im just not sure what branch. Marines or Army? Either of those two would be fine with me...

You fail to realize that without France, the United States wouldn't even be a country. Instead of going on uninformed tirades on how about France owes us, maybe all you hawks should look at history and realize that WE OWE FRANCE. We would have won the revolutionary war on our own. The French just made it faster. Now, in 1956 France was about to collapse and we saved em. They came back and spit right in our face. Screw the French.

OK, after what my dad told me about Braun I dont think Ill vote for her. We need a minority president but we need a good one. Hey baggs, get Dr Keyes to run and Ill vote for him...

I apologized to apu and I enjoy the political conversations and I hope we can carry on with them. I agree with just about nothing of what he says but Ill not attack him anymore...

No way Im going to vote for this guy. Sorry apu, you can vote for him but you wont get any help from me. This guy sounds like a jerk. Take this story for instance. Well other than the fact that he admits hes a liberal (you guys know what I think of liberals) he seems to be comparing America to Hell. And Im not gonna vote for someone like this (actually, I dont think Ill be able to vote in 2004 but when I do get the chance). The one person Im really going to be pulling for is Carol Moseley-Braun. African-American and a women. We could use some distinction in the White House for a change. This would also help minorites get more enthusiastic about government. The other day I was on the bus talking to some black friends of mine and they said they hated George Bush and that we should get a new president. I said we should get a black president and they really liked it. Now to think it may happen is really cool.

I apologize to anyone I offended yesterday in my rant against anyone with different views. Except for kipwellsfans thread, I am revoking none of my views but I apologize for any personal attacks I may have made. Apu, Im sorry for calling you anti-American. I think you have odd views of a great country but that doesnt mean you hate the country. I am going to support this country til the day I die. People on this board criticize me for being too quick to jump ship but let it be known that I will never jump ship on America. GOD BLESS THE USA! Also cw, for your challenge to enlist or shut up with all the prowar stuff, Ill do even better. Im going to college and then Im gonna become an officer in either the Marines or the Army. Fighting for your country is the greatest honor one can have...

I have never seen the threat Iraq poses to the US. I'm going to bed, got an early morning tomorrow. Nite. He has shown he has no problem killing innocent people and he has the means. He needs to be destroyed. Im going to bed too. Cya...

Hey, those are his beliefs and he defends them very strongly. I don't see why you have to attack him. Hes an antiAmerican thug who supports socialism. That is about as anti American as you can get...

But its in most of these countries. And the last couple of times we went to other countries to provide support against tyranny, it came back to bite us in the rear. We supplied weapons to Iraq and Afghanistan and they both used them against us. Then we sent troops to Somalia to get peace and 18 American soldiers died because of it. Im not up for intervening in anymore of these countries affairs. But that doesnt mean Im not for war in Iraq. Iraq poses a threat, perhaps a minimal one but still a threat. Somalia and Afghanistan posed no threat. So, we should be defensive, not offensive.

And some of this hatred is towards their governments. But obviously no matter how bad a government is apu the commie will kill me for even suggesting that we intervene in another countries affairs. So we cant realy help there, can we apu?

Who are "they"? The people of all the countries where people are dying like flies because of hunger... Like Ethiopia? Yes. And I might add its not only anti-American hatred that these people brew. Its hatred towards anything. Hatred kills...

Who are "they"? The people of all the countries where people are dying like flies because of hunger...

They teach their kids how to hate others rather than how to improve their own society. If thats how they want to act, fine by me, but dont ask America to jump in and risk their own men to save theirs...

Sorry Psycho, there is no purity anywhere. And our nation has a mixed and sometimes sordid history as do other countries. And nothing apu is saying is antiAmerican. He is freely discussing the issues of the day from a side that some people do not want to acknowledge. I think he is right 99% of the time and my son is a Marine and I consider myself a very well informed person because I deeply care about these issues. (Ask for about cars and I know s***...) That people have other opinions is fine, as long as they are informed and from a good conscience. But I for one resent the antiAmerican tag slapped on someone who dissents from the s*** the media pushes and government propaganda. Apu is thinking for himself. So, for example, is baggio, while they (and I and Baggio) are polar opposites on this. And I can respect everyone then and affirm both as proAmerican in the best sense of the term. SideshowApu, God bless you and How can you say apus not anti-American? He detests democracy, capitalism, the Bush regime. Look at his sig. Can you say thats not anti-US? Everything about this guy is hateful. No mention hes one of the most classless posters on the board...

Maybe, just perhaps, these people wouldnt be in such horrible shape if they didnt spend so much time whining about how they hate America and if they spent a little more time improving their minds and teaching their future generations. I dont care that people are suffering in the Middle East and such places. If they werent so full of hatred towards others they wouldnt be so poor. These people think the West is responsible for their problems and thats their problem. They take no responsibility for anything. Its their own fault. When theyre in the ditch they call for America to help them and when we help them out they use the strength we gave them to punch us in the gut...