beck72

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) I definitely don't want to see this deal go down. If we're going to trade Contreras or Garland at peak value, at least the pitcher we get should be someone with a good contract/value. For his contract, Vazquez is not that person. Also, I think if they trade Garland, you're basically writing Buehrle's ticket out of town when his contract is up also. I disagree. Jon would likely get a deal better than MB's. Would you want to pay Jon more than MB? Could you blame MB if he wanted a deal better than Jon?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:07 AM) ^^^ This is exactly what I think it is. Both Garland and Contreras could garner $10+ million a year contracts after next season on the free agent market. To fit one of them in the budget, maybe Kenny thinks his best bet is to trade a guy like Garland for Vazquez + cash. And if Cooper could bring out the best in Vazquez like he did with Contreras, we would have three pitchers in our rotation with great stuff in Contreras, Garcia, and Vazquez. Vazquez's poor mechanics have been talked about as part of his problem. Even with those questions, he's been a workhorse and been able to stay healthy. With pitching at a premium, getting workhorses is important. It would still hurt to get rid of a workhorse like Jon. But having to pay him to be the highest paid pitcher on the staff after this yr for 4 yrs probably.... I have a problem with that. One thing to consider is the low amount of K's Jon had this yr. With Vazquez being a strikeout pitcher [and getting help from the sox to straighten out his mechanics] it could be a deal where the sox trade a #3 or #4 starter for a possible #2. Vazquez certainly has the stuff right now to be a solid #3 or #4 starter. Vazquez wouldn't be looked at to be the sox ace. Just a middle of the rotation guy. Yet he arguably has the talent to be an ace. Jon's ceiling is as a solid middle of the rotation guy who can log innings

The Sox probably can't afford resigning both Jose and Jon after 2006 with guys like Kenny rogers getting $8 mill a yr. Whoever the sox are not intent on resigning could be dealt. That way a guy like Vazquez could be under control for another yr. While I may not personally like a deal, I could see why it could be made. A team like Ariz. could try and get Jon to be a #1, or #2 starter after this yr, and pay him that way [over $10 mill a yr for 4 yrs]. If that's the case, I'm not sure the sox should or would pay him that big a contract

My concern lies with the SP. Seeing how Tracey is the 7th SP option in AAA [doesn't seem ready to help this yr] the best bet is to sign a vet to minor league contract for spring training. Seeing how those guys can usually demand a trade if they don't make the big league club out of spring, vets aren't usually options for AAA during the yr. I'd like the sox to pick up another minor league arm [someone from AA who could start the yr in AAA] from deals involving Harris, Gload, Borchard, and expendable minor leaguers [such as Rogowski]

Levine had talked about how before Baltimore signed Ramon Hernandez, Tejada basically told them not to because of personal reasons [implied they hated each other from their OAK days]. That's why he went public about wanting out Sounds like Tejada will get his wish. Why pay your stud when he doesn't want to be there?

I also noticed that another lefty Matt Thornton was 29. I thought he was younger. But his numbers aren't good 1.68 whip. I could see Seattle giving him up and keeping Sherrill

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) As soon as I thought of a trading partner for a lefty LOOGY, I instantly thought of Seattle. IIRC, they had 4 lefties in their pen at 1 point in 2005, and they've got Rafael Soriano to come back as a set-up guy as well. They're pretty desperate for some LH power right now. Joe Borchard perhaps? Who do they have for 2b? Willie Harris as well as Joe B? I certainly don't think the sox would have to part with any key prospects for a LOGGY guy

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 09:48 PM) I don't see the Tigers doing much. Kenny Rogers had the best year he's had in quite some time, and he's on the wrong side of 40, let alone 35 or 30. Todd Jones had the best year of his career last year, and is also quite old. I see the Tigers, at the very best, to be a .500 team. The Indians look fine, the Twins look good still too, especially if they can get Baker into the rotation over Lohse, and the Royals look atleast a little improved. It'll be fun next year. I agree. Detroit should be a .500 team in '06, if that

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 09:12 AM) As for effective LOOGY's on the market, there's not a lot to be had, you'd have to look at guys like John Foster, George Sherill, Brian Shackleford, Kent Mercker etc. George Sherrill from Sea. is an interesting case--someone who could fit. Esp as he doesn't walk many people and can get strikeouts [career in minors of 1.01 whip, w/ 161 k's, 31 bb's in 117 1/3 ip--has had a 1.24 whip in 42 2/3 career major league innings]. He limited lefties to a .156/.170/.333 line in '05. He wouldn't require that much to get in terms of talent, as he has some strikes against him--he's old [will be 29 in april, pitched in Ind. leagues]; had a 5.21 ERA in '05 [though in 25 + innings, that's not huge--look at the jump Neal Cotts made in terms of ERA]; and Sea. has a few younger lefties with more upside on the roster or near ready. Whoever the sox get should have a nice K: BB rate, someone who won't hurt themselves or the team by giving up free passes.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 10, 2005 -> 01:41 AM) Davanon had worn out his welcome in Anaheim. When Jason and I caught 2 games there against the Mariners, the fans were really giving it to him for his lack of power (probably because he was used a little bit too much by Scioscia). I made a post a few weeks ago about potential 4th OF candidates. Seeing what the O's gave to Orlando Palmeiro yesterday makes me a little weery about the market for them. A guy like Owens would be nice, but he deserves playing time down at AAA. There's also the likes of Terrence Long (.279 AVG, good defensive player), Dustan Mohr (didn't hit well in Colorado but still had 17HR's), Matt Lawton and Michael Tucker. As long as DaVanon's defense was solid, his lack of power wouldn't be a concern on the sox. Esp if he could hit near a .280 avg and have an OBP of .350. Where the angels went wrong was expecting him to DH and put up power numbers

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Looks like there are two open slots on the White Sox now. Lefthanded reliever and 4th OF. Who fits the bill for 4th OF? I like Owens but am concerned about having two rookies out of 4 spots and would prefer they at least bring in a veteran to compete. Borchard IMO is not suited for the role and I think he'll be traded, and Timo will not be on the team. A perfect fit is Jeff Davanon, recently DFA'd by the Angels. Fast, switch hitter, can play all 3 spots. The 4th OFer has to: 1] play more than 1 OF spot, with above avg defense; 2] have a decent stick--nothing great but like a .250 avg DaVannon would be a guy who'd fit Borchard could and probably will go to a team like FLA-esp in the NL where he could get some PH ab's and be moved around the OF

If Owens can play solid enough defense in both CF and LF, he could stick around. If he can't play more than LF, I don't see him sticking. Being a 4th OFer means he has to play more than 1 spot

My guess is the sox would try to trade for a LOGGY, someone who has been tough vs. lefties, maybe has 1, 2 yrs experience. The FA's available will be overpriced and not very appealing

My take on the trade is this--the sox overpaid in order to get THE guy they wanted. It's similar to the Thome trade. In order to get the right peices, the sox made sure their targetted guys did not get away. Marte surely had more value to other teams [maybe for minor leaguers]. But the sox probably weren't going to get the same guy in return. Mackowiak seems the perfect UTL guy who can get a ton of AB's, that allow the sox starters like Crede, Iguchi, Dye, and Anderson some rest

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2005 @ Dec 8, 2005 -> 11:11 PM) Nice call, Beck. I try

Looks like Pitt. is taking offers for Mackowiak http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05342/619052.stm Seeing how he can play 3b, 2b, and CF, giving Crede, Iguchi and Anderson some time off, I'd be very surprised if the sox didn't make a strong play for him. There was talk of the sox being interested in him last yr [or maybe just from us armchair GM's around here]. We'll see. Looks like th ePirates are looking for relief help. Seeing how the sox are very strong in that dep't, I could see a match. Pitt is the kind of team that could use guys like Bajenaru, Adkins and Munoz.

I found this from Baseball AMerica from this yr. on Jerry Owens. Talks about his defense and some of the questions about whether he can play CF or not. Doesn't sound like it. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050818dish.html

The angels wouldn't trade Santana. With Byrd and Washburn gone, Santana is our BMac--untouchable

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 6, 2005 -> 02:30 AM) But if we got Crawford, Kenny would need to get rid of some payroll, maybe in the deal with Tampa. Marte? El-Duque? KW could trade with other teams. It's not like these guys are w/o value. Maybe not to TB but to others

I mentioned this a few weeks back. Crawford was signed by the old leadership team. Baldelli was signed by the new group. For a team loaded with prospects, Crawford could be available if they can fill multiple holes. Guys like Fields and esp. Rogowski are expendable

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 06:12 AM) Bullpen help? Perhaps you could have an argument. Catcher? Not unless you want to trade AJP. San Diego offered Loretta for Wells and Mirabelli...so I am not even sure of an offer the Sox could make to make that even manageable without one side getting completely hosed. I like Loretta...not as much as I did about a year or two ago, but age and injuries have that effect...but I don't think the Padres and Sox matchup real well for a trade. I was talking about the bullpen being a sox strength. The other trade for Wells reported in papers was Dave Roberts and a bullpen arm--Okino [sp?]. So Loretta's could be worth a UTL Ofer and a decent bullpen arm. I'm trying to gauge Loretta's worth by this. But seeing how Wells is saying he'll only play for SD or he'll retire, the Padres don't need to offer much to get him

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 10:51 PM) I would consider the Sox as a huge non-player in the Loretta market. San Diego is looking for starting pitching for Loretta, and unless they'd take Duque over Wells - which won't happen - there is no chance of it working. Loretta's a Padres or SAWWWWWWWWWK next year, if I must stick my neck out as far as I want to. According to their MLB site, SD is looking for bullpen help and a catcher at the winter meetings. Seeing how that is an organizational strength.....

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 06:21 PM) I don't know that you sign Garland to a 4 year $40million dollar deal. Depending how McCarthy fairs this year, there may be room for another rookie starter to make a debut. If Garland tests the FA market, which I suspect he will, I'm pretty sure he'll walk. We'll get picks for him. Whether the sox resign Jon or Contreras, who knows. But Jon will likely get a 4 yr, $40 mill offer from some team if he repeats his 2005 yr. Yet the sox can't have both Jose and Jon go after 2006

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 06:20 PM) The Sox were interested in Mueller at one time, but not anymore. Crede is the starting 3Bman. Mueller isn't going to take a fill in role. Money is one problem with getting Mueller. Crede is ready to break out and is a better fit for the Chisox Unless you have some doctors reports no one else does, the sox seem interested in getting some insurance in case Crede's back keeps him out for a while

I'd rather the sox face Byrd than Millwood. Millwood was very tough vs. the sox last yr. Hoffman isn't the same pitcher he once was. And the sox didn't fare well vs. Wickman in the past. So IMO, Millwood + Wickman >>> Byrd + Hoffman