beck72

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) I think one aspect that's been overlooked a little is how Pierre could really get back to some good numbers here with the bat. Kind of reminds me of Juan Uribe, when he first came here and had an excellent first season for us. After he hit .287 for Colorado in his final season, he hit .305 for Florida in his first season there. I'd expect him to put up similar numbers to that, with about a .360 OBP. And he fits the mold for Ozzie's call for more speed and a new #2 hitter--can handle the bat [one of the best bunters in baseball]; get on base, hit for avg, and steal bases Besides adding a new DH who fits this mold--not many I can think of--getting a new #2 hitter means a position player has to be moved.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 05:59 AM) I wonder if the Sox could be involved in this trade? http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...rlins_1120.html Marlins get Hank Blalock, Damaso Marte, Aaron Rowand, & a pitching prospect from the White Sox Rangers get Josh Beckett & Mike Lowell White Sox get Adrian Gonzalez & Juan Pierre I like Gonzalez but Rowand wouldn't be part of this trade. Marte and a good pitching prospect could work.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 09:04 AM) The Sox would be stupid to trade Aaron Rowand for Juan Pierre...STUPID. I don't think anyone is saying a straight up trade. The marlins probably would take Marte and a prospect for Pierre though. That would mean Rowand being moved elsewhere. Like Rowand going to Philly for Thome. Isn't that the argument going on? Getting a guy like Pierre and a bat like Thome, for basically Marte, Rowand and a few prospects?

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:53 AM) well it's not like Pierre isn't a similar batter to Podsednik, or Ozuna for that matter. The sox do need another everyday position player like Pods at the top of the lineup--lefty or switch hitter, high obp, high avg. Pods goes down, who hits leadoff? And a power lefty, rbi guy, high obp, a #3, or 4 hitter Ozuna? He's a utility guy and not an everyday player [or someone who could fill in as a #1 or #2 hitter for a month] The sox seem intent on moving Tad from the #2 spot, hitting him 6th or 7th. Get a guy and have Tad as a backup for the #2 spot.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 20, 2005 -> 12:21 AM) Pierre is not half the fielder rowand is so you can throw that theory out the window. Like cwsguy said there basically isn't defensive statistic avaliable that shows they are comparable defenders. All in all rowand> pierre... but only slightly imo. If we're talking just defense, sure. But the total package and what another #2 hitter and leadoff guy and a career .300 hitter could bring to the sox with his speed, Pierre could add a lot to the sox. Esp given the sox have Crede, and Uribe as similar hitters to Rowand

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 09:51 PM) Sure it would. You'd be replacing Rowand with Pierre. Pierre is worse (I'm not sure how much worse, but it's fairly substantial) defensively than Rowand is. So, you're losing runs on defense. And, I don't see a whole lot of offense improvement from Pierre... He might have the edge, but I think he's giving it right back 'cause he isn't anywhere near the defender that Rowand is. But hey -- we'll have some more stolen bases. So that's good. Beck, you go ahead and find me a statistic that shows Pierre being a better defender than Rowand. Please, do so. Name six better defensive centerfielders. What I said is that if Pierre does replace Rowand, Ozzie must think that it wouldn't be a defensive downgrade [maybe a slight, but not a big difference]. If Pierre can get to more balls than Rowand--very possible, no matter how good Arow's jumps are, which directly leads to more outs--having a weaker arm isn't the be all end all. Pods had the rep about not getting good jumps and reads on balls. Pierre just has a rep for having a weak arm. But again, Ozzie knows all about Pierre and what he would bring to the sox. Seeing how Ozzie has been all about defense, I'd find it hard to believe he'd add a much weaker outfielder to CF. I'm not going to defend Pierre because I don't know him. But if he's traded for, my money says he'll be fine in Cf for the sox.

QUOTE(JimH @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 03:19 PM) Pierre is not a perfect player by any means, he has flaws, but taking away our personal likes/dislikes and biases, there's a good chance they'll try to get this guy. Guillen came out and said he wanted more speed at the top of the lineup and presumably he wants a good hitter up there as well. He knows Pierre from Florida and the White Sox sure appear to be shopping Marte. I think this rumor has validity. I agree. Ozzie knows far more about Pierre than any of us. The sox need to have a solid backup plan for leadoff in case Pods goes down. They don't have one now. Pierre could hit #2 and leadoff.

In looking at this further, the sox need for another leadoff man in case of a Pods injury, makes this deal even more likely. Having Ozuna hit leadoff for awhile makes me cringe.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 12:11 PM) Say this trade pulls off e.g Danks is included. Florida's rotation next season could look like this; Willis Vargas Olson Moehler Valdez Shows how badly they need that new stadium though, and how Beinfest has a LOT of work to do. It would like the A's minus Hudson and Mulder, and power arms. The marlins must be counting on their offense carrying them.

If the sox are going hard after Pierre, [and the rumors of the sox interested in Thome--which Rowand would probably go to Philly], the question would be this---would the sox be a better team with 1] Pierre and Thome or 2] Rowand and Marte? All things being equal, the sox need another on base guy at the top and power from the left side of the plate more than they need Arow and Marte.

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 12:40 PM) For their price, defense, and offensive potential, I would rather Aaron Rowand in the outfield than Juan Pierre for the Sox next year. I don't really understand why the Sox want Pierre so much in the first place, or at least, appear to want him so much. If the sox do go after Pierre, it would be because they think Pierre could do more for the sox than Rowand

QUOTE(Felix @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 12:43 PM) I'm not sure how devestating that 1-2 would be. They each are basically the same type of player, and to hit in the 2 hole for Ozzie, you have to have great bat control and move the runner over, like Iguchi did this year. Can Pierre/Pods actually do that? I know they can get slap singles, but I'm not completely sure they have the best bat control in the world to be that effective at the top of the order. Pierre would hit in the #2 spot and Castillo would hit leadoff for FLA. He has a few hundred AB's in that spot

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 19, 2005 -> 12:39 PM) Of course our OF defense will definitely be weakened. It also means that 1 of Pods or Pierre probably won't be around in 2007 I'd say, considering the OF prospects we have waiting in the wings. A case could be made that Pierre would get to more balls than Rowand, which would help the sox defense. And Ozzie has talked about not wanting to hurt the defense

Ozzie knows all about Pierre. If he thinks adding Pierre [at the expense of Rowand probably, who'd have to be dealt to another team to make room] would make the sox a better team, then a few things would be clear: 1] Pierre's offense [ability to get onbase, steal bases, hit near .300] would help the sox score more runs on a consistent basis 2] Pierre's speed in the OF would take away more hits then his arm will give up 3] Pierre and Pods in the same OF wouldn't weaken the sox overall defense

It clearly looks like the marlins are trying to take a page out of the Billy Beane handbook--cut payroll but still stay competitive. Can't say I blame them with how few fans showed up, even when they got Delgado.

interesting that Thome's career numbers are very, very good at both the Metrodome and Jacobs field. @ Minn- .343/.429/.677 [10.9 AB/HR @ Cle- .306/.440/.629 [11.8 AB/HR @ the Cell- .286/.382/.600 [11.7 ab/hr

FWIW, Rotoworld back on the 14th listed possible trades. They had Thome going to CLE for AAA SP Scott Elarton and an A prospect. Not exactly a huge dividend going back to Philly.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Nov 18, 2005 -> 05:40 PM) Think they would settle for Liotta? Liotta is too much. The sox shouldn't be trading away very good starting pitching prospects. Position players, maybe. Esp. if the sox take on a good bunch of his contract. The Phils could use bullpen help. And the sox have shown that even a guy like Gary Majewski could play a part of getting a bat. Arms like Baj, Adkins and Munoz could play minor roles.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) Because, you need to stay young and lower salaried to be a consistantly winning franchise. Contreras could go with Marte to Philly or Florida for a bat. Contreras won't be going anywhere. If he did, it certainly wouldn't be just for one bat. The sox can't replace a top of the rotation guy like Jose that easy.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 08:45 PM) The article even mentions that the Yankees are looking at ways to work a 3-way deal for Rowand like many people here suggested since the Yankees have nothing that we would want. I think that's what I said I don't see any teams that may want the yanks old expensive guys.

The Yanks are still looking to get Rowand, with a third team included. Don't know what team can afford the Yanks overpriced talent. The paper does say Rowand's on the block and available. http://www.bergen.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcn...2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) Another good reason to go after Thome -- to block the Twins from getting him. The Twins have the prospects to make the move if the Phillies pick up a lot of Thome's contract. If they trade for Thome, keep Hunter, and Morneau rebounds, they could have a potent 3-4-5 punch. Seeing Thome wearing the high black socks like Podsednik and Crede would also be classic. Thome will be gone by ST. But I hear what you're saying. The twins prospects could land a very good bat, which they seem intent on doing. But if the sox keep adding to their roster and the AAA team, they won't have to worry about the twins

From rotoworld: "Twins GM Terry Ryan said he wouldn't consider dealing for Jim Thome until seeing him healthy and swinging the bat well in spring training. He's apparently not the only GM who feels that way about Thome, who is recovering from elbow surgery. Ryan also said he's not interested in Alfonso Soriano or Doug Mientkiewicz, and that he doesn't see Jacque Jones or Joe Mays returning to Minnesota. Nov. 17 - 2:50 am et" The sox are in a position to gamble a little bit, betting that Thome will be able to recover and hit near his 2004 numbers when healthy. Few other teams will be willing to invest in an injured player who may not be ready for opening day AND be a team Thome will want to play for. the sox can and probably should if the deal involves a lot of cash and few top prospects or players If the Sox present Phillies GM Gillick any kind of decent offer, I bet he jumps at it

QUOTE(Wealz @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 03:12 AM) The market for Thome is very limited due to his contract, injury, and most importantly his no-trade clause. With his elbow you can pretty much rule out the Mets and Red Sox (Ortiz isn't going to play the field.) I'd say the the Angels are a longshot too because I think it would make sense for them to keep the DH spot open in case Vlad will need it one of these years. That's the key--looking at other possible trading partners. Not many out there who'd want him at 1b. DH only.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Nov 17, 2005 -> 02:38 AM) Thome's great but the Sox don't need the power bat. They need more speed. I pray KW doesn't give up pitching if this deal goes through. Let's not forget why the Sox won the WS. They could use someone else with speed for sure near the top of the lineup, esp. if Pods went down. But the sox also need an RBI guy [at DH to replace CArl] who has a high OBP--Thome fits that bill with a lot of power.