beck72

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) You just described Brandon McCarthy. BMac will be in the rotation to start 2006. The sox need a Bmac type ready in AAA in 06

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:47 PM) Um...el duque. You want to trade Aaron for a top notch starting pitcher and do what with him?? I don't understand what you're trying to say, and if you want to trade him for a prospect I actually have to agree that, that is taking a step backwards, no need to trade Arow for a minor leaguer when you're going to have the Duke to back them up. A top notch AA pitcher who can start the yr in AAA, and possibly take over for Contreras in 07 when he's looking at getting $12, 13 mill a yr. El Duque? His arm is about to fall off. Counting on him is like counting on Frank to Dh the entire yr.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) Trading arow for a starting pitcher makes 0 sense to me but if he's the centerpiece for a big bat then I'm all for it. I'm trying to think like Ozzie and KW. Trading Arow for pitching makes perfect sense. I definitely see the sox wanting a SP from AAA ready to step in and win games should an injury occur. They don't want to get into the whole 5th starter merry-go-round. They should want someone who can step in for the whole yr, not just one or two starts. the sox don't even have a guy who can fill in for one or two starts Sometime this offseason, a trade should be made that will address this gap in the sox.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:40 PM) Trading arow for a starting pitcher makes 0 sense to me but if he's the centerpiece for a big bat then I'm all for it. We might not have that many pitchers in the high minors minus Haig but Freddy, Mark, Brandon, and I'd bet on Jon too will all be here through atleast 07 so those guys in the lower minors will have time to develop. If PK doesn't re-sign with the sox, they can pick up a guy like Thome or Helton for cash. A Row wouldn't have to be part of a deal. The case for a top SP prospect might not seem important now. But if one of those 4 guys go down to an injury, you can't get good SP's mid year. The time to stock is in the offseason. As it is, who do the sox turn to from the minors in case of injury?

QUOTE(heirdog @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:27 PM) I can't take this anymore. Trade ARow for what prospects? Give up on a future gold glover and one of the key members of a world series champion so that a prospect can take over and then have more prospects in line to take over for a stud pitching staff? Why, why are we so masochistic? Why do we want to take so many leaps backward after winning the world series? The sox won the World series based on their pitching. If Arow could net a possible #2 or #3 SP, someone who could step in next yr should a SP get hurt, would that hurt the sox chances of repeating? No. Esp if Anderson could give the sox what Arow gave them this yr-- great defense, and numbers like .270/.326/.405. the sox do not have a surplus of starting pitching in the high minors. This is something that should be addressed, with or w/o an Arow trade. Yet few teams will give away top pitching prospects for guys like Marte or El Duque. It takes talent to get talent.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) A-row in a huge ballpark like San Diego, Oakland, etc would be extremely valuable. A lot of teams could use a guy like Arow--LAD, Phil, Balt. Tex, the Cubs. Hit the cubs up for some guys who can start the year pitching in AAA [ala Reynel Pinto, Ricky Nolasco]

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) I still don't want Rowand traded until after the '06 season. Unless a trade comes up for Delgado, I really don't want to see Row moved. The .900 OPS CF from '04 was so f***in' good, he needs one more season to prove it wasn't a fluke. I was dead set that Rowand wouldn't be traded. But I'm starting to come around and see how it could work out. If '04 was his peak yr [being that it was only 140 games, his avg and OBP would likely have dropped if he played the 157 games like this yr], and he's somewhere in the middle of the '05 and '04, trading him now while he's got a lot of value makes sense. I'd personally like to see a top five or a top ten pitching prospect come the sox way in an ARow trade. Someone starting the yr in AAA who could come to Chi. if a SP went down Esp. if Anderson could take over and give the sox at least what ARow gave them in '05. Giving Anderson a shot now, before Chris Young comes a knocking at the Cell door in '07, would give the sox a good picture of Anderson's ceiling.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 06:05 PM) Or you could trade him now while he still has value. Another subpar offensive season from him, and teams wouldn't be willing to give up much for him at all. From what it seems, mid-level players like Rowand, Orlando Hudson, and Mench are attracting a lot of attention, and there seems to be a pretty nice sized price tag for them also. Well put.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) Philly are in a lot of rumors right now. I read about Vernon Wells for Bobby Abreu this morning. If the do end up needing a center fielder (and most likely an excellent defensive one), you know Rowand or Anderson would definitely appeal to them. I could see Rowand being moved to Phil. If they had a young SP who could pitch in AA or AAA and be near ready for the bigs by June. Besides getting a DH bat, and a #2 type hitter, the sox should be set if they re-sign PK. Getting arms for AAA [both bullpen and the rotation] is also a need. The Sox should be set in high A and AA. Yet AAA is thin.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 01:50 PM) Thome is damaged goods with a huge contract. No way they get a front line pitcher for him from the Sox or anyone else. There is so much injury risk involved, I can't see the Phillies getting much more than prospects. A year ago it would have been different and a year from now it might be different but for the present 193 AB, 7 HR and a .207 BA for 13 million freaking dollars is not going to get you a starter. Exactly. Philly wants to unload Thome big time. the sox wouldn't have to give up much, esp if they ate the contract. Trading a young SP like Garland or Garcia for an old, injured DH is crazy talk.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 12:52 PM) The NY Daily News article said that the Sox were looking for a bat to replace Everett. Anyone think that if Pierre is moved, Rowand could be included in a possible deal for Delgado? I think the marlins will build around Delgado, clearing salary elsewhere--guys like Pierre, LoDuca, maybe Castillo, Lowell if they can eat enough salary. But stranger things have happened.

That teams are asking about Rowand and hearing "there's not a match" instead of "no way" should be a sign that Rowand could be moved if the right deal comes along

QUOTE(TLAK @ Nov 11, 2005 -> 01:39 AM) What a great thread you started beck72! I can't remember the last time I read a whole 10 pager. I want to add one comment; everyone seems focused on the big famous names. But KW and Oz's history is not to go by reputation but rather to identify the role they want filled and find a player willing and able do it Best case in point is Scotty Pods, they took a PR beating trading for him after his '04 season. But I think they were looking at what they could get out of him using him the way they envisioned. His role was to run down balls, get on base, advance and score, something he seemed to get away from in brew town when he tried to slug the ball. Sticking to his role he played great for the Sox. If they do make a trade, we might all say who the hell is this guy? He might be an unknown or someone we think is a bum. But he could be a piece of an '06 plan that we haven't figured out yet. Thanks. I just think the best material for us is given by guys like KW and Ozzie, their comments in the media, etc. It gives a lot of us armchair GM's something to speculate on that probably will happen. I do think the sox will get a proven guy who's had success for the #2 spot. KW admitted to Bob Melvin that he "got lucky", which he did. A lot of moves turned out that could have easily backfired. Now the sox are in a position to improve on a World series champion. They have some money to spend. They have an expanding fan base to keep excited and motivated to come to the ball park. those are some reasons, IMO, that bringing in a proven, consistent guy who fits Ozzie's criteria makes more sense. I also agree that whoever they bring in may have an impact on what the sox look like after the 2006 season. It could mean that someone is on his last yr on the sox [like pods or Dye]. It'll be interesting

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 08:23 PM) imo Kenny is just saying that for leverage in the trade market, he doesn't want other gm's to believe that he needs another first baseman. I would highly doubt Gload is our starting 1b next year. Well put. Going into the GM meetings he doesn't want to seem needy or desperate to make a deal. Gload won't be starting for the sox.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 08:57 PM) Please, someone build me a business case of why in hell we would supplant probably the best defensive SS in the AL for Alex freakin Gonzalez. There is no case to be made whatsoever, business or otherwise. Someone is smoking crack

QUOTE(Fingish @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) hmmm, what guy is #4 on that list, would probably only cost $2-$3mil this season, hits lefty, and would be able to bat leadoff, while staying within the "Ozzie Doctrorine" of getting someone with speed? That was an interesting find. Still, Lofton....As a DH?! Still....

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 07:53 PM) The secret to batting #2 has nothing to do with BA. It's being smart, knowing how to bunt and being willing to give yourself up. The secret is being able to do those little things while maintaining a high avg/ obp. I put up those names as people with experience in the #2 spot, which is what the sox would probably want--someone w/ experience hitting there. Iguchi was an experiment. It worked out well. But Ozzie seems to want new blood there.

Seeing how the sox should go with a guy with experience, here's how guys hit from the #2 spot this yr: [i put a minimum of 200 ab's] http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/battin...in=17&ageMax=51

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 07:36 PM) One other thing that should bother people about Pierre: 7 SB 6 CS 54% 46 SB 17 CS 73% 47 SB 12 CS 80% 65 SB 20 CS 76% 45 SB 24 CS 65% 57 SB 17 CS 77% Castillo is the guy. But he's not easily replaced. Unless the sox took on a contract like Lowell's [which could happen if PK leaves], I don't see FLA getting rid of Castillo.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 06:41 PM) Is it possible that all the position players remain the same and the DH spot goes to a speedy guy in the 2 hole? I know it's not the norm to take the power away from the DH, but if speed is what we want, that's a way to get it and keep the same defensive setup. It would take an extremely unselfish player, as he will be asked to take pitches, hit and run, hit to the right side, sacrifice and then he goes to the bench. Not too much glory in that. With a 2 hole guy that plays the field, at least your still out there making plays...... and with a normal DH you get the glory of a home run once in a while. This type of DH will strictly be playing a role. He may only get the opportunity to really swing away once or twice a game. Weird strategy, but it does keep speed on the base paths. Even if the lead off guy doens't get on, this guy can get on and be the same base stealing threat. Also, if both get on the double steal is always a possibility. Im sure the pitcher and cather will have that on thier minds as well, while facing our #3 hitter. This of course is only if Pauly is signed and Frank is elsewhere....but if Frank is back and healthy he is the DH and it's back to the drawing board. I think the key is getting a DH who can also play the field well. So that gives the sox a lot of flexibility to "rest" guys at DH while the regular DH play the field. Ozzie tried it with Everett in the OF. When he played the RF or LF, Ozzie could move Pods, Arow and Dye around, giving all three some timeoff. If the sox do get a new #2 hitter, that player will probably have hit from that spot before. The sox are in a position where they don't and shouldn't experiment like they had to this yr with Iguchi. It worked out well. But getting a veteran who has had a lot of success in that spot would be huge. And they'd have Iguchi to fallback on. To add to that, if the sox did get a new #2 hitter, a huge plus would be if that guy was able to hit leadoff. that way, if pods got hurt, someone could step in and keep the offense moving. Right now, the only guy the sox could use as leadoff would be Jerry Owens. And putting a AAA guy in that spot is asking for trouble. Get a new #2 hitter who also has experience in the leadoff spot. Just so happens that both Castillo and Pierre have hit in both spots.

QUOTE(Fingish @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 06:32 PM) i also think you are right about maybe not moving Iguchi from the #2 spot. in the first half Pods and Gooch could have been the best 1-2 combo in baseball, they did everything right for their roles. Ozzie's comments suggest that is precisely what he wants to do--move Iguchi from #2 and drop him down in an RBI slot.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) soooo.....Move probably the AL's gold glove (realistically) SS to 3B to make room for an expensive FA that we dont really need? Then Trade away a possible GG 3B who was a HUGE part of our defense and playoffs last year because we want somewhere to stick our GG SS? Seems like alot of tinkering of a team just because we MAY want to try someone else at the #2 spot. C'mon what's not to like?! It's fantasy baseball GM time

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) For the second time.. I agree. But the $$ Boras is going to want for him.. I don't think 6 weeks of production is worth it. Joe's offensive numbers don't warrant the kind of huge contract Boras will likely ask for. Yet he has to find a team willing to pay Joe for basically his glove. The big spending teams with the deep pockets will want more offense than Joe has shown so far. Now, if Joe has an entire yr like his playoffs.... then he could be out of the sox price range. IMO, he's much more valuable to the Sox and they'll be the team that will give him one of the best contracts he could hope for. The sox could try and give him an Aaron and Uribe type deal--less cash than he'd get on the open market, but it's a sure thing. In the end, Boras works for Joe. Getting the guaranteed cash now, before he blows out his back in his walk yr, might be on his mind.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 12:08 PM) I actually think if the Dodgers are desperate enough, and you don't know what McCourt's feeling right now, they could offer him 5 years with a no trade clause. They really worry me now when it comes to Paulie. I still think he's gonna end up with around a 65/5 deal from somewhere though. Matsui's contract is probably set the market for him, and he'll definitely want more salary wise. The sox could go 5 yrs w/ a no-trade, as they have the DH in case of an injury. The dodgers could as well. If an offer was the same, it would be in PK's court--play close to home with the team that drafted him or play with the sox? I think the no-trade clause could be key. If Vlad didn't get one with the angels, how would that look with Pk getting one? With the angels deep in prospects--with Morales [who they're paying big bucks to] and Kotchman at 1b, why guarantee 5 yrs a slow power hitting slugger who has less than a .280 career avg?

QUOTE(TLAK @ Nov 10, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) Crede (Scot Boras client) traded before his FA year. Not going to happen. Crede's a huge part of the sox going forward. And despite his good playoffs, Joe's a .250 hitter. He's not going to get Eric Chavez money. Now, if Joe hits like .280 with 25 hrs and 100 rbi's this year....