beck72

A few things: I still think the Sox need a UTL IFer for their bench. Right now its too one dimensional. Only Timo can play multiple positions very well defensively. Gload only plays 1B, Willie 2nd, Carl is avg at best in RF and LF. Given the choice, I want quality backups/ young talent almost ready for the bigs for position players, bullpen guys and SP's more than I want a backup DH. Season ending injuries to key position players [like Uribe, ARow, PK] or pitchers [shingo, Marte, Buerhle, Garcia, etc] could harm the club far worse than getting a DH. Look at what PK did as DH, and Gload at 1b filling in for Frank. The problem wasn't with hitting. It was w/ the pitching and hitting from other spots. The key is what kind of bench do the sox want. Do they want a big bat who can get two starts a week? Or versatile, above avg defenders who are less potent w/ the bat, but are going to keep the other team from scoring cheap runs because of bad defense? Are the 2005 Sox a team relying on scoring runs early, to get a lead, and allow their pitching and defense to keep leads, or keep them in games while they can manufacture runs late? Or are they a team that can allow an average defender to play because they need his offense? Going by the makeup of this team, I see Carl pinch hitting late or getting a spot start here or there. He won't sub defensively for anyone. Dye, Rowand and Pods will rarely be lifted late in a game. They all are solid defenders and can hold their own vs LH or RHP. Only if Frank is gone for the season would Carl really be needed. IMO, if his ankle is fine--and there are not reports that it shouldn't be good to go--Frank should be back to near what he was doing the 1st half of last yr. His injury wasn't near as serious as the triceps injury, and shouldn't take a long recovery period to get his timing back

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 02:45 PM) Right now if Everett was traded to the Cubs, for lets say some prospects, who would you sign out there on the free agent market for $4 million, and would they be better than what Everett could provide for this ballclub if he stayed? I orginally was going to post [maybe I did somewhere] that holding Carl until Frank was ready might be another way to go. That way Carl could build up some value, and the sox could see how other areas were panning out. Yet if Frank was healthy and back in the lineup, trading carl before he spends too much time on the bench could provide the sox with some needed depth. I'm not knocking CArl. I believe he'll bounce back with his bat. Yet he's never been a bench guy. He's always been a regular and prob. should be in 2005. He has a lot more talent than some guys starting in MLB. How he'll do in a few starts a week remains to be seen. Yet the Sox already have a LH bat for the bench that fits in w/ Ozzie's style of play--Gload. He deserves some PT after what he did in extended time last year. Where is the Gload love?

QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 02:44 AM) The only way Everett becomes a 'problem' is if they get 5 guys (outfielders + Frank) playing so much better than him that he's stuck on the bench. I think that would be a very good problem to have. The Oz'r showed last year that he likes to use the whole roster. I expect all these guys to be in the mix. The mix will change from day to day and inning to inning. Ozzie had to move guys around last yr because of the injuries/ ineffectiveness of the players. If guys are producing and helping the team score runs, there will be less moving guys in and around the lineup. The bench guys would get spot starts to rest guys and pinch hit rather than replace the regulars.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 02:09 AM) JMHO, but if Podsednik and Everett were to have equal AB's this season, I'd bet on Everett having a better season. He's shown that he can do it more than once. Podsednik, on the other hand, is just as unproven as a Joe Crede -- both have done it in the past, though for a short time, but both are still questionable going into this season. If it so happens that Podsednik isn't able to revert to his '03 form, I'd stick Everett in left in a heartbeat. Let Iguchi/Harris-Rowand lead off, and stick Everett towards the back of the lineup. Either way, I think Carl is going to have a huge impact upon the team this year... Pods won't see the bench, even if he hits what he did last yr. At worst, he could drop in the order. The sox need his speed to manufacture and score runs and prevent them from scoring on defense.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:44 AM) It's a safe bet someone will get hurt regardless. If Everett is full time DH for April and May that's almost 240 AB's right there. Timo will be the guy who gets less AB's and that's fine. The other thing is, right now Everett is the best RH hitter on the bench assuming he's not playing. And that's his weaker side. That's why I'm saying no way are the Sox even considering trading any offense at this point. But the guys who Everett could see playing time if they get hurt, besides Frank--- Pods, Dye and rowand--- were all healthy. Carl is the one coming back from a few injuries and is a bigger risk to stay healthy than them.

Brady Clark is still playing?! As a regular?! I could see him as a bench guy. but any team giving him 500 ab's will be fighting to stay out of last place

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 02:13 AM) But the scenario that someone (was it me?) created earlier was that these two players -- your .290/.430 guy and your .375/.385 guy -- had within five homers of each other, and an OPS within .020 points or so of each other. Of course, if the .375 guy is knocking in 30 more runs than the other guy, and hitting 20 more homers, I'll definitely take him. But I put them on an equal plane as far as driving in runs/x-tra base hits/homers. But a guy with a avg. 80 points higher will be driving in a lot more runs than the lower avg. guy. Unless the rest of the team is garbage and no one is ever on base when he hits, you have a guy who's getting a hit 37.5% of the time he goes to the plate, opposed to the guy getting a hit 29% of the time. All things being equal, the guy with the better avg. should get more RBI opportunities with the hits [be they singles, doubles or more]. The guy w/ the high OBP may be getting on base. But he can't drive other people in with his walks, and you don't know if anyone's driving him in. [of course bat the guy with the high obp before the high avg. guy and he'll knock him in ] I think a team needs both high avg and obp guys. Yet w/ the extra hits, the high avg. guy is prob. driving in more runs. And I know which guy I would want hitting late in a game, in an RBI situation: the guy with the better chance and proven success of getting a hit

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:26 AM) I think you guys are reaching here. This team was built by KW with depth in mind, and even so they are still lacking a certain amount of depth and versatility. Another big factor to consider is, let's suppose Frank is healthy on May 1 for the sake of this discussion. The last few years he's had a tendancy to get injured. I'm sorry, I want a proven bat in reserve like Everett. Everett is not the greatest thing since sliced bread but he is a quality proven bat who can play serviceable OF if he's in shape. I can't see the Sox keeping him after 2005 but he's an excellent fit for this year. I remember people on this site screaming about Everett last year, and perhaps rightfully so. But he is quality veteran depth. Guys will get bumps and bruises and Everett will get his 400-450 AB's. You will see guys like Anderson and Sweeney getting challenged at higher levels to see if one can push his way into the Sox OF for 2006. And before someone says $4M is a lot to pay for a bench guy, they factored this in when they acquired him. They knew Ordonez was a goner and they knew they'd have to trade either Konerko or CLee. Everett is a proud guy and he's in a contract year, and those who saw him at SoxFest said he's in shape which is what I expected. This is a guy who wants to win badly and will not tolerate any clubhouse bulls***. Seeing as this team is going for it, he is a good fit and there is about zero chance he'll be traded unless the Sox are out of it by July 31 which I seriously doubt. If Everett gets 400-450 ab's the sox prob. won't make the playoffs. That would mean someone went down with an injury, like Rowand, or Pods. Right now, Carl is only backup for Frank and Dye. Could the sox get better depth elsewhere, say at SS [in case Uribe went down], or SP [if #1-5 went down] C, or another leadoff type guy? My point is the sox have greater depth concerns at other positions than plugging in a guy at DH or RF.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:17 AM) You make some excellent points. I read you all the way. Kenny knew what he was doing by re-aquiring him last year at the expense of Rauch. Everett is valuable anyway you cut it; he's valuable both on the field as a contributer, and off the field as trade material. Utimately, I don't think a decision will be made on Jurassic until the deadline, when team needs and such start to surface. The move for Carl was to try and salvage last season. He was hurt, and it didn't pan out. Nice try by KW. But like Anthrax said, this yr's team is different. To say Ozzie was less than impressed by Carl is the understatement of the yr. While KW was familiar with CArl, Ozzie wasn't. He'll have to prove himself to Ozzie. And with Gload producing and fielding the way he did, and PK fine at DH for a short stint, I wouldn't be surprised if CArl was available sooner than the deadline. I do recognize Carl's value as an everyday player. My main point is that a team like the Cubs may as well. I wouldn't give CArl away. But if it helped the Sox depth and get some very nice young talent, sure.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 01:13 AM) I wasn't saying that AVG was an overrated stat -- rather, a guy is more likely to consistenly put up a .430 OBP than consistently (and by consistently, I mean year after year) hit .375... You did say you'd take a guy who hit .290 over a guy with a .375 avg, based on his higher OBP. Which no GM or manager in the world would do. Those extra hits would bring in many, many more runs than those walks/ HBP would. It's nice to get on base. But it's much nicer driving those runs in

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 31, 2005 -> 12:47 AM) Simply put, Everett is too valuable to the ballclub right now. Obviously, Jurassic needs to anchor down the DH spot while Hurt is on the DL; but when Hurt is activated, say either he or Dye (both injury prone at this point in their careers) goes down, Jurassic can step in and not miss a beat. Jurassic should also come into ST more steamlined and ready to go. I think his body shape/work ethic last year rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but that is a thing of the past. His power production and veteran ability is something the Sox can't afford to trade to the Northside, or any other side for that matter. I'm a Jurassic fan and I think he'll contribute a good deal to the White Sox of 2005. After that, who knows. If we are out of it at the deadline, and I don't know why we would be, trade him. If not, he'll be a veteran piece to the final strectch. I get what you're saying. I too think CArl will be in shape and be a contributor. Yet once Frank comes back, the Sox will be paying a bench guy $4 mill. He's valuable until Frank comes back. But having Gload at 1B and his .320 avg with Pk at Dh isn't shabby either. Could the Sox get another valuable player or two for Carl [say a backup SS in case Uribe, Crede or Iguchi go down]? Right now the MVP for the Sox is Uribe [as the starting SS and backup plan at 2b and 3b], and the Sox can't do without him. If the Sox could get some talent at the AAA level in case a guy goes down to injury [how about a LH backup for Marte, a SP prospect, etc], that may be as important. Esp with Brian Anderson in AAA this yr, the Sox need backup plans at other positions rather than the OF.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 05:20 PM) Your first theory about me rather having Cora than Uribe is absolutely wrong. I said leaving OPS out of the equation, but OPS is a stat that really shows what Uribe can do. Uribe and Cora are totally different players, so it's really a poor comparison, IMHO. Let me rephrase my statement -- say you have two guys, both have hit 20-25 homers, 70-75 RBI's, and both steal ten bases per year, with a similar CS rate. One has a .305 AVG/.330 OBP, the other has a .285 AVG/ .375 OBP -- I take the latter every time. And the reason Cora didn't draw interest from other teams, IMHO, is because he's only had one good season (2004 -- 2002 was good too, but in limited ABs). His stats have fluctuated throughout his career, so I really can't judge what kind of player he is. He also can't hit left-handers very well, making him a part-time player. I said all things being equal, not taking into account OPS or other stats like you said. I was just comparing two guys with similar avg and OBP stats. IMO, batting avg. isn't an overrated stat. Esp. if someone has a high avg over a period of years. Is it luck or skill? Some guys do have career yrs based on getting the "right bounces". But if a guy consistently hits for a high avg, I'll take that over a guy who takes a few more walks. People do forget players who give up AB's in order to move runners over. Pk was a good example of that last yr. I can't remember how many times he hit to the right side when the sox needed to get a guy in scoring position. It shows up stat wise as a lower avg and lower OBP. Yet it helps the team

QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 06:53 PM) 2005 Sox motto is the team is built around pitching,speed and Defense CArl would be a great DH if the sox didn't have one of the best in league already. But as a corner OFer, I like what Dye and Pods can bring to the sox. More importantly, I think Ozzie would agree. I get the feeling from Ozzie's quotes that KW has tried to push Carl onto Ozzie. And Ozzie isn't feeling the same man love

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 05:48 PM) Everett is a great player to have on the bench, and like I keep saying, I think Carl is going to have a GREAT season this year. Keeping Carl around is important. I like Carl as an everyday player. I don't know if I like Carl the bench guy. And in that role he's unproven. Can he be the same productive player getting 2 starts a week? I don't know.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 09:32 PM) If we deal Everett, it makes more sense to do so at the trade deadline. I was also thinking after Frank came back [if May was correct]. Everett should then have showed he's ready to play everyday, posted some good numbers. A team with an injury could use him and overpay. Such a trade would prob. be for minor leaguers, which the Sox could use guys at the AAA and AA levels. But the scenario most seem to suggest that if he's doing well someone else will sit doesn't make sense to me. The only places are LF or RF and DH. And if Frank is healthy, a much better bat than Carl

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 05:34 PM) Are you trying to tell me that Davis or Perez are even half as good at the plate (LH) as Everett is? I think like Harris, Everett should be kept around as a safety net incase one of our players (Podsednik, mainly) fails to hold down their jobs. Many people over at another message board also feel that Podsednik might not regain his 2003 form, or even come close to it -- and, if Everett is pounding the ball, Everett is going to have to be in the lineup everyday -- LF being the only logical place he can play... This has nothing to do with talent. It has to do with who's a better fit on the bench, being versatile, playing positions, getting AB's etc. Everett could be pounding the ball. But where would Pods play? Rowand? Dye? These 3 are all signed to 2 yr + deals. Carl isn't.

I doubt the Sox give up Crede, w/ no 3b man on board. Crede and his low salary are a good fit for the sox.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 04:58 PM) Absolutely not! The White Sox have no need for any slimy, stinking, obnoxious, fetid, venomous piece of fecal matter off their roster. The whole team, including the manager, are a bunch of lying, cheating, steroid crazed club house cancers. Keep them away from our guys. Reports are Everett looked fine at Soxfest, and the way this team is shaking out all 25 guys are going to see lots of action, even if they don't start. I anticipate Oz will go 11-12 position guys deep in close games and I'd much rather have Carl Everett coming off the bench than Joe Borchard. I respectfully dissagree with your suggestion. I do think Farnsworth has some issues. Yet to discount any of the Cubs prospects because they come from the cubs isn't smart baseball. I still don't see how CArl gets his AB's. Everyone says "he'll play a lot". Somehow I don't see it. If he plays a lot, something is seriously wrong with Frank, Dye, or Pods.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 04:44 PM) It's not that PK can't DH, it's that he doesn't want to. If he was somehow convinced to do it, then fine, but it doesn't appear likely. For the short term PK can. He did it the last month and a half. If Frank was going to be gone for two months or more, I'd want to keep Carl. Yet Frank should be back sooner.

QUOTE(f***REINSDORF @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 03:43 PM) I like the fact that Everett can switch hit.If his ass isn't so fat, he may be productive.I say hang on to him as long as Frank is injured. His being a switch hitter is good. Yet he has better numbers from the left side. With Gload, Timo and Davis [also a better hitter from the left side] already LH bats, having another one for the bench might be overkill.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Jan 30, 2005 -> 03:56 PM) Everett certainly is needed with Frank out of the lineup. Moving PK to DH isn't going to do us any favors in the hope to resign him at a fair price. He wants to play first base, and he plays it pretty well. I too believe Gload could handle the duties, but for now, I don't mind keeping him in the role much like last year. If we need him to be more, we'll still have that option. However, for now, Everett serves a need. The sox got nice production w/ PK at DH and Gload at 1B. The key is how long do the sox need Carl at DH. If a month and a half or less, he's extra weight [no pun intended ]

A few things: I look at it as who Ozzie and KW want on the team. Does Ozzie want Carl or does KW? I'm sure Ozzie would be fine w/ Gload at 1B and PK at Dh until frank comes back. Ozzie thinks Gload could be a regular. Gload's shown he can handle that role for at least a month until Frank comes back. KW likes Carl. Ozzie isn't sold on him. With a healthy Frank, Carl won't see much time at all. The only way he gets in the OF is if Dye or Pods go down to injury. Yet Brian Anderson, Spidale or Escobar could also fill in. [Ozzie seems far more likely to go for speed and defense over offense if an injury occured] I've also advocated building up the sox depth at AA and AAA, for pitchers or position players. Trading Carl for some of the Cubs depth there wouldn't be a bad idea instead of Farnsworth.

Would you trade for Everett? Maggs should go to the Tigers. And Burnitz could easily put up a .230 avg with 150k's. Not to mention he'd be more expensive than everett and want a multi yr deal. Everett could play either LF or RF, switch hit and give them the LH power they need. Don't get me wrong. I like Carl Everett. I think he'll rebound from his 2004 with a solid year along the lines of his 2003. Yet Carl isn't a good fit for the Sox. He'll likely DH until Frank comes back. But once Frank comes back, when and where will he get AB's? He won't take them from Pods or Dye. He just won't get enough AB's to justify holding onto him. He deserves a full-time spot. The Sox could have PK DH until Frank comes back, with Gload playing 1b. If Ozzie is going by the 2004 season, he'd have PK DH and play Gload. [going by Ozzie's comments about Carl's weight]. I know Carl is KW's guy. But Carl just doesn't seem like a fit for this team coming off the bench. If the Sox could get another bullpen arm like Kyle Farnsworth and a prospect or two for Everett, would you do it? Is the luxury of having a bench guy like Carl worth more than adding to an already strong bullpen, with Farnsworth prob. replacing Adkins, and Cotts in long relief? I know you have to keep in mind injuries to players. Gload though offers a proven bat and solid glove to start 2005 and coming off the bench when Frank is back. But also keep in mind two young bats who likely could see time in 2004 if an injury would occur--Brian Anderson and Mike Spidale. Not to mention Alex Escobar [i don't count Borchard, who should be used as trade bait for a UTL IFer]. I personally would want an excess of bullpen arms. IMO, flamethrowers are harder to come by than DH types.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 29, 2005 -> 05:22 PM) Id rather stab myself in the eye 1million times than keep Timo Perez over Harris. If Harris is moved before Timo, than it is a personal decision, not a statistical one. I dont think Harris will be moved as fast as many seem to think, KW's statements recently seem to be suggesting that they want Harris to step things up and make the team. Also, we arent going to get a utility infielder even close to Harris's quality, and that is considering he doesnt play 3b or SS. SB Keeping Timo is unrelated to the sox decision on Harris. If they played the same positions or roles then a "Timo or Willie" argument could be made. But they don't

While Frank's avg may not hit .300, his high OBP and SLG numbers justify his salary. Looking at this yrs FA's , the money guys like Beltre, Glaus, Sexton and Drew got [guys who have been injured or inconsistent in the past], Frank is worth what he'll make. Only David Ortiz can come close to Frank's numbers. Now, if Frank is hobbled all yr, and the foot doesn't show signs of healing and may just get worse, that's a different story. Then maybe buy him out and resign him to a lesser contract. But if his foot heals and its back to normal, Frank should earn his money