beck72

If Iguchi can do the little things like a #2 hitter is supposed to do [hit behind the runner, make contact, bunt, steal some bases, hit the ball in the gaps] then he hitting above .280 would be an improvement for the sox. Seeing how Uribe was penciled in as the #2 hitter [and still may be, we'll have to see what ST brings], Iguchi should be expected to hit at least what Uribe did last yr. Whether he does or not who knows. But fans should expect at least that from him.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jan 24, 2005 -> 08:31 PM) But Willie's not just a 2B. He's also a reliable OFer. That opes the door to more possibilities for a trade. There are also solid relievers available. Harris just plays an outfielder on TV. If a team needs him to play CF, it should be in AAA not in the majors. Harris has value. But it shouldn't be for a 25th man type. The sox could and should get a guy who could be an everyday player or a SP some day, preferably in the next yr or so.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 24, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) Don't be too disheartened because your Castillo idea was based on sound thinking. And I agree, I believe Willie will be traded for some AAA,AA depth. I still think Castillo will be traded The Marlins GM is a lot like KW and operates under a strict budget as well

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jan 24, 2005 -> 08:07 PM) I think Willie will be traded for another RP. My reasoning is that numbers wise there is great separation still from Adkins to Politte in the pen. He is the weakest link. Wille should be able to fetch the Sox a player as good or better than Politte. That would make for one of the strongest pens in MLB. No real weaknesses. You can not build a roster on the expectation that someone goes down. You have to assume the guys you sign or going to be healthy. You plan for contingencies with your farm system & your team's ability to make a quick trade. That will be there most of the year for the Sox with so many 2B dangling on the trade wire: Castillo, Polanco, & Boone to name a few. It's extremely doubtful the sox could get someone better than Politte by trading Willie. Esp now so close to ST. You even said yourself there are a lot of 2bmen out there. The best the Sox could prob. hope for in return for Willie are decent high level prospects. Or a very solid UTL guy. Instead of a bullpen guy, the Sox could use a position player. The sox have a lot of guys who could fill the 11th, 12th spots in the pitching dept [Diaz, Munoz, Baj, Ryan Meaux, Matt Smith, etc]

Harris will probably be traded for a prospect or two. There aren't a lot of open roster spots now, besides UTL IFer. The bullpen has a lot of competition as well. The Sox biggest need is depth at the AAA, AA levels for a number of positions [C, 3B, SS, SP], which a trade of willie could possibly fill.

Kennedy is hurt to start the yr. Don't know how long he'll be out

The Sox almost have to trade willie now. Having him sit on the bench, spot start and pinch run won't help his trade value any. He's prob. at his highest value now--the potential to improve on his decent 2004. Some team has to be in need of a leadoff man/ 2b man, right?! Not the Sox will get much for him at this date, w/ a lot of teams set to go into ST with what they have. Even if Iguchi falls down, the Sox have Uribe to take over at 2b. The question is who'll backup Uribe? Valdez may be a short term answer if Uribe goes down, yet he should stay in AAA in case he's needed. But the sox should get a vet who can be OK with spot starting for the 25 man roster

With the Marlins offer reportedly upped from 3 yrs and $36 mill to 4 yr and $50 mill, the Marlins would almost have to trim salary. [and have a rock solid, concrete plan in place after signing Delgado--trading Encarnacion and his $4 mill salary won't be easy]. The marlins operate very much like the sox payroll wise. Upping in one area, means cutting back in others. With position players like Delgado, Lowell and Castillo the only ones signed for big money [Lowell makes $8 mill a yr], and young pitching that will cost more money in the yrs ahead, a guy like Castillo could very well be cut loose in the Carlos Lee mold type deal. If Delgado is signed, I wouldn't be surprised to hear "rumors" from the regular radio and print sources circulating about possible trades of Castillo

FWIW, the Marlins look to be the favorites to sign Delgado, w/ only the Orioles remaining. He'll prob. sign monday or Tues. With the fish adding another year to the deal, getting rid of a long term contract like Castillo could be right around the corner. I know their team pres. said that wouldn't happen. but that was before a 3 yr $36 mill deal w/ deferred money went to a 4 yr, $48, 50 mill deal. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1973917

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 08:48 PM) On the numbers, supposedly he changed his batting stance before the 2003 season and experienced a breakthrough. On the SS thing, he hasn't played SS since 2000 ... seems to me it wouldn't be wise to count on him there. Those 2003, 2004 numbers look like you'd get from guys in the states who'd been hanging out w/ Bonds trainer . At least he'd only be a platoon guy. Your pal wee Willie amy just get enough of a spark from the competition to "live up to his potential". [prob. not]

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 03:07 PM) If the Sox ink Iguchi, which I believe they will, there may be another addition. It may not come right away ... maybe even June or July. The middle infield would be awfully inexperienced. That's the problem. Even w/ Iguchi, the middle IF will be inexperienced. I could see a trade deadline deal esp, if Willie's talking more than getting results and Iguchi is putting up Willie type numbers.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 22, 2005 -> 12:24 AM) I'm definately not sold on iguchi OBP's 1999 -- age 25 -- .310 2000 -- age 26 -- .317 2001 -- age 27 -- .346 2002 -- age 28 -- .317 2003 -- age 29 -- .438 2004 -- age 30 -- .394 Which of those numbers are we supposed to belive, the ones hovering around .300 or those of the last 2 seasons? Put me in the "not sold" camp as well. I might feel a little bit better if someone from the Sox organ. had actually seen him play in person But I look at a possible Iguchi signing at worst as someone to platoon w/ Willie, someone who is prob. fundamentally sound in playing team baseball [jumping to conclusions here, I know]. At best, he continues some of the same things he's learned the last 2 yrs. Hopefully, he can also play SS. But if he hasn't the last few yrs, he's prob. not up for it

One thing missing in all this Iguchi love is the fact that the sox haven't seen him play in person. KW said they only saw him on tape. With no other teams bidding on this "impact player", KW might be drinking his own koolaid [finding a hidden gem other teams passed on, ala Loaiza, Uribe, Shingo] on this one. At least with these other success stories, the sox had scouts and people to see them play in person. Don't get me wrong, it sounds like 2003-2004 Iguchi could help the sox. Yet to say he's better than a proven MLB player like Luis Castillo, that's unfair to both Iguchi and Castillo. Iguchi shouldn't be held to that high of a standard. And it cheapens Castillo's accomplishments, who's been able to hit .300, steal 20+ multiple times, have a high OBP and win 2 gold gloves.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) Beck, Levine said that earlier report of the Sox being $600,000 apart from Icughi was BS. His agent was looking for "Matsui" money the entire time, but now he might have to settle for "Matt Suey" money. If the new report is that Iguchi's agent has countered w/ a 2 yr $6 mill deal, then the money has been about 500k-600k apart My main point is that the sox have prob. been looking to upgrade at 2b w/ guys better than Iguchi.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 06:48 PM) I disagree 100%. Kenny knows something we don't. Cora was there for the taking, as was Cairo; neither of which are on the White Sox. Kenny hasn't shown any interest in trading for the 2b of the future. None. Zero. The 2b should come via free agency; no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This team is ready to rock and should not rob Peter to pay Paul. EDIT: Iguchi is not a fall back option. He's the main target and the only guy the Sox organization has talked about for the MI since missing on Vizquel. If Iguchi was the #1 target, the sox wouldn't haggle w/ him for over a month for a few 1000K. Could be KW "flying under the radar" on the trade front. Few FA's are left better than willie. But many via trade

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 06:24 PM) That's far too steep a price for Castillo. If, in fact, the Marlins are in as dire a situation as you would like us to believe, the goal is to get Castillo at a bargin, not through overpaying. Jurassic will be a contributor in 2005. Cotts will be a contributor in 2005, 2006, and beyond. With the new contract proposal from the Iguchi camp, I think whatever chances Castillo had of coming to the Southside and quickly fading. I like both Everett and Cotts. Just Carl doesn't seem to have an everyday spot. If he could be used to fill the spot at 2b, why not. Iguchi seems like the Sox' fall back option. But he's still a question mark where the sox have a few up the middle already, and in the #2 hole. But I still think the sox are looking to upgrade more than Iguchi, as Iguchi has been around for a while sitting there for the sox to sign.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) Well his name has been tossed around the most with these total speculation Castillo trade threads. Whom should we give to the Marlins for him, and why would the Marlins want these players? I think I answered those questions on the first page

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 06:18 PM) I wouldn't object trading Everett/Cotts/Harris for Castillo/Prospect if the prospect was mid-level, and Big Hurt's health wasn't in question. As it stands, a lineup without Everett (and Frank) is substantially weakened. Does Castillo replacing Harris compensate for Everett's loss? I know you can't possibly have faith in Borchard substituting as our teams LH power bat. In addition, I'd hesitate trading Cotts; whom may be transitiong to rotation spot in 06' (definitely 07). Without Contreras/El Duque/Buehrle(?) in 2007, it'd be ideal to fill out 4th/5th starter's position with McCarthy/Cotts. I know it's far ahead, but in today's inflated market two starters who may combine for less than 1.5 million is worth noting. I just don't know where Everett plays/ gets AB's once Frank comes back. He's an everyday player. Having him as a part time bench player/ Pinch hitter doesn't make sense. At least Borchard can play more than one position in the OF, like Timo. Is Joe an everyday player? No. could he be a good 4th, 5th OFer? Probably. Cotts and Harris both have value, but could be used to get someone who'll be around for a few years

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 04:37 PM) I'm sick of seeing us forced to give up players in order to fill our holes. KW described Iguchi as "an impact" player. Look at Castillo's contract: 2005: 5.33 million 2006: 5.33 million 2007: 5.25 million team option. Why should we f*** with our own payroll constraints for the next 2-3 years while we're giving up a guy like Damaso Marte? I'll pass Marte hasn't been mentioned in this thread.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 04:30 PM) I'm totally unsure about Iguchi .... KW called him an "impact player" a couple of weeks ago. But then, I've seen it expressed that some of the "all-stars" that went to Japan expressed some doubt his ability to catch up with a major league fastball. Yet, his salary plus Marte's compared to just Castillo's sounds pretty good, and we'd still have Harris as insurance. I'm thinking Iguchi may be the way KW chooses to go. I'm also unsure about Iguchi. And I think the Sox are too. No way would they wait 2, 3 weeks over a few dollars if they thought he was a sure thing. [that no one from the sox saw him in person may have something to do with that]. From the Sox negotiating stance, Iguchi seems like the fall back option. With no other teams publicly interested, the sox could look at possible improvements that offer more upside than Iguchi. Harris is up in the air but I doubt he'll be the starter by opening day. At worst, Willie could be a guy off the bench if they did find an improvement. Or included in a deal.

QUOTE(S720 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 02:23 PM) Iguchi. The Sox is waiting for Iguchi to come to them! Iguchi is one option, I agree. But letting him go over a few hundred thousand dollars, w/o having a fall back option would be ridiculous. The sox should also have an option for a deal with someone at least Iguchi's equal, and better than the guys they let sign elsewhere [cora, Cairo]. Taking such a hardball stance w/ Iguchi doesn't make sense unless they were also looking at a guy like Castillo, durham or Polanco via trade

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jan 21, 2005 -> 01:31 PM) I think that article pretty much dampers any chance of aquirering Castillo. It looks like they are going to go with Willie Harris after all. It just doesn't make sense to me that our utility infielder is going to be a young player like Valdez. If KW doesn't aquire a starting 2B, than he for sure needs to acquire a veteran utitlity man. the question is why would the sox let veteran UTL guys go [cora, cairo, etc] if they didn't have someone in mind for either 2b or UTL? The need is there. The players via FA aren't.

Found this little tidbit from FLA's team Pres. Could be a hint that even if Delgado is signed a "front line player" might not need to be moved just for salary purposes. Yet i've talked before about how Easley replacing Castillo's bat helps improve FLA's SLG and power, and they could make a case that adding a bullpen arm could improve the club as well. [Of course no team will come out and say they made a move for strictly a salary dump] Interesting though From today's Sun-Sentinel: Marlins won't break budget By Juan C. Rodriguez Staff Writer Posted January 21 2005 They can lure him with the promise of abundant RBI opportunities. They can entice him with their proximity to his native Puerto Rico. What the Marlins can't and won't do to sign Carlos Delgado is lapse into fiscal insanity. If the division-rival Mets torpedo the Marlins' three-year, $35 million bid, they'll settle for exchanging pleasantries with Delgado from across the diamond. Delgado and David Sloane, his Coral Springs-based agent, had a three-hour meeting Thursday with Mets officials in Puerto Rico. Today, the Rangers will make their pitch. Sloane met with the Marlins on Tuesday before joining Delgado in Puerto Rico. The Marlins did not increase their offer during that session. The Marlins believe it will come down to them and the Mets. If outbid, the Marlins won't find a way to make up financial ground. "We're going to do only what makes sense," said team president David Samson, during an interview Thursday with Evan Cohen on ESPN Radio 760 (WEFL-AM) in West Palm Beach. "If Carlos Delgado requires so much money that it would require us to trade another player, another front-line player, just to have him then we just rob Peter to pay Paul. We're not going to do that." Samson went on to say: "The Marlins are not in the business of overpaying. The worst thing you can do as a franchise is have under-performing contracts, and we won't do it. So if it becomes an overpay, the Marlins will bow out gracefully and we will see the Mets on the field 19 times, and we'll look forward to saying hello to Carlos then."

The question fans have to ask is why haven't the Sox improved up the middle, even if it's just to get an experienced backup UTL IFer? Even if the plan was to have Harris start [i'm more willing than others to give Harris the benefit of the doubt, that he'll improve on his 2004--but the sox sure don't seem set w/ him], the sox would still need a vet up the middle. Going with two young guys up the middle, w/ a young backup in Valdez, doesn't make sense. Esp seeing that Cora signed w/ Clev. to be a UTL guy at SS and 2B. The Sox must have some deal in the works to bring in an even better option than Cora or Cairo. With no upgrades over Cora via free agency, a trade is the only route for improving this spot. People know I've speculated that the Marlins could deal Luis Castillo if they signed Carlos Delgado, based on the Miami Herald quote of a Marlins insider. Since that was back on Jan. 9th, and the Sox have seen "back up" plans for 2b sign with other teams [Cora, Cairo, even Robbie Alomar], would the sox "wait it out" just on the chance Delgado signs w/ the Fish? Maybe. The Sox could trade for a bench player w/o giving up much talent. But KW doesn't usually operate by waiting weeks for other teams to make a deal But if Delgado didn't sign w/ the Fish, could a deal still be made between them and the sox for Castillo? Probably. The Marlins biggest need is a LH power bat. While they have an opening at 1B, they could also use a LFer. Conine could play 1B like he did for 57 games last yr. No big LH bats are either LF'ers or 1B in free agency Could a contingency deal be in the works between the Sox and Fish, if the fish don't land Delgado, to get them a LH bat? Maybe a deal along the lines of Carl Everett, Neal Cotts and Harris for Castillo and a prospect. the Sox would still have Bochard as the LH power, and Cotts would be the sweetener as Castillo is locked up for a few yrs, and Everett is gone after 2005 The Sox sitting on the sidelines while other teams fill holes doesn't fit the 2004 offseason MO. If not Castillo, the Sox should have something lineup to get a vet for the sox middle IF.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 05:48 AM) He does not walk therfore he has no place on a major league team that wants to contend whatsoever. See Pokey Reese. I'm not sure if Reese walks much. But he certainly can't hit. At least Valdez can make consistent contact. I think Valdez is a guy who can fill in for an extended period of time if Uribe went down. He won't help much [offensively]. But he won't hurt a team either [defensively]. Like in years past, think Erik Almonte filling in for Jeter, or last yr Reese for Nomar