beck72

I'm pretty sure the player had more control than just demanding a trade. Something to the effect that he could throw out his old contract that he signed w/ NYY, and become a FA if he was traded within a yr. Would he throw away all that guaranteed money? Probably not. But it's a possibility any team trading for him would have to consider

The Sox have in house bullpen options, and I'm sure the non-tender market would be OK. With Vizcaino tough vs LHP, that must also factor in. Cotts' % of inherited runners saved also was better than Marte's this yr. As long as Cotts didn't start an inning he was usually OK.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodger...eadlines-sports With Drew in RF, the paper speculates that Vazquez could be dealt for more pitching. With Koplove fr. AZ in the deal and a RH set up man, getting a top LH set up guy like Marte [along with a SP] makes sense. The Brown for Weaver NYY deal worked out for them, why not w/ Garland? I can't see many other teams going after Vazquez like the sox. BTW--can't he still become a FA after 2005, with that clause that allows him to become one after signing a new deal? If so, which I think it is, his value should be down even more

Looking more closely at a possible Vazquez deal, a Garland and Marte deal makes a lot of sense. Esp in light of the Beane deals, and how Depodesta is Beane's protege and past deals he's made. Both Beane and Depodesta have traded for guys who were "homers". Some of the recent Beane homers included Danny Haren, Kotsay, Daric Barton, Kendall. Homers fr. LA--Milton Bradley, Jeff Kent, Jeff weaver. Garland seems to fit that mold being from CA. The Sox add Joe B another CA golden boy with Marte, and it could happen. No way do I see LA holding onto Vazquez's big contract. If they pay some salary then they might get more talent.

Looks like the sox moving PK for Vazquez isn't going to happen. The part about not happening unless it was something like Shawn green and Vazquez for him [which wouldn't happen of course] http://www.suntimes.com/output/sports/cst-spt-sox19.html Interesting that KW didn't take the sox out of the running for Vazquez. I wonder if a deal along the lines of Garland, Marte and Everett plus a Borchard throw in might not work instead. [Of course the money aspect of a deal might negate that--though $1.58 mil, $3.4 mill and $4 mill would get the sox near Vazquez's near $11 mill]. Yet Vazquez's contract seems anti-DePodesta / Billy Beane. I still think LA needs to move Vazquez. They have more holes than the sox and can't sign FA's to fill all of them

If you looked closely, I said IMO. Statistically, the sox have been world beaters the last few yrs. But they have nothing to show for it. I'm glad the sox are done tinkering around the edges. A safe choice prob. would have been to sign Clement. But the Sox need more than that to make the playoffs and be in the position to make a WS run. The calculated risks the Sox seem to be taking leave a lot of room for upside, more than enough to get the sox into the playoffs. It looks like you think all 3 sox players are going. By all accounts it would be 2 of the 3. the Sox pen is stronger, and could absorb Marte's loss [Cotts IS/ IR was even better than Marte's]. And Vazquez's addition would move everyone down a spot, with a reasonably priced vet at #5 if Garland was part of the deal], helps the rotation. [Vazquez's 2nd half is more of an aberation than his All star 1st half-I believe even your stats say that ] Nothing is a sure thing. We can argue stats and opinions all day. Once something happens, and we know the players heading into 2005 spring training, then we can argue more. But to compare the way the Sox are heading w/ the tigers and Dbacks is ridiculous.

I think one thing lost in all this "the Sox don't have any guys left to hit HR's and the Cell is a hitter's park" worries is building a team that can win at home and on the road. Last time I checked, the sox have been poor on the road in the last few years [7 games under in 04, and not much better the previous yrs--though I don't have the exact record]. A playoff team has to have an above .500 road record. And play solid at home. What have the Sox been lacking that has contributed to their poor road records? Inconsistent scoring, poor SP, and a weak bullpen. IMO, the sox have relied too heavily on a roster built to win home games. A trade bringing Vazquez and maybe an Alex Cora could help the sox win at home and on the road, even at the expense of PK and Marte or Garland.

Has it been Ozzie's fault the sox haven't been in the playoffs since 2000?! I personally like the moves and the direction that's being talked about taking the club. But I'm a little insane so take that into consideration

I agree about AJ. That would have to get done b4 Mon, as the Sox would non-tender Davis

I can't see LA trading away Vazquez and not getting a SP in return. They are very thin there. Unless Garland is part of a deal w/ PK it doesn't make sense for them. The question is who on LA could come over and fill a hole on the sox. If a deal went down with LA, Alex Cora could play a role. He'd play 2b everyday. And he can play SS. He played 15 games at SS in 03, 61 g in '02 and 132 g in '01. The sox wouldn't need a vet UTL guy like Cairo and his $1-2 mill a yr salary. they could use a rookie like Valdez making the minimum, as Cora is 29 and a solid vet. Willie Harris would no doubt be a good trade target for a low budget team. The sox could then use Harris to fill a hole, at C or a SP, or be traded for prospects I agree trading PK and any one else might create a hole. Yet a #1 or a #2 SP like Vazquez is harder to find than a 1B or a #5 SP like Garland. Clement, Odalis Perez, etc. are decent #3's. But they don't have the stuff to throw a shut out virtually anytime they pitch like Vazquez. It's riskier to trade a guy like Pk for Vazquez. Yet the upside of getting a stud SP who only had a bad 1/2 yr in NY over signing a FA SP who just fills a spot, is much higher

All this speculation is a little much. Rotoworld mentioned possible people, not all 3 guys being traded. Until more is heard, some deep breaths are needed. KW may take some risks. But he's not completely stupid. If Billy Beane only got a bullpen arm, a weak hitting LFer and a prospect for Hudson, Kw won't give up the store for Vazquez

That "hometown discount" sure sounded fishy, huh. Let's hope the Sox avoided getting the next Jaime Navarro and move on.

True. But being an AL team, and in the Central, can't hurt. We know MN, Cle, and Det. won't be in the running.

Monday is the non-tender deadline, when teams offer their guys contracts. the sox could sign AJ and non-tender Davis. Other teams will be looking at the same thing

Isn't he officially a FA now, after he cleared waivers yesterday [per the Washington post]?

I believe Offman earlier had said Clement to the Sox was probably not happening. Levine has better info.

What source said the sox increased their offer to Matt? If true, that could be the one that gets it done. The Sox just need to be close I have a feeling.

I do remember at the end of last season, both KW and Ozzie mentioned that Timo was playing hurt most of the yr, that the injury affected his hitting. His defense was solid, could play all 3 spots, good bat off the bench. Maybe a little rich. But he's an Ozzie guy, who can handle the bat and has a good glove. Must be his "intangibles" are off the charts

Very solid point.

that wouldn't be part of my intervention. Jon would more likely be helped by a hug

I'm sure some posters here would gladly donate some couch time if it meant getting that SP hole filled.

I'm glad we at soxtalk have a staff of trained pychologists ready to diagnose potential Sox players based on a sportswriters' speculation. I'm satisfied. Let's get him counseling, then maybe sign him.

The only words quoted are "the savior". Is he a #1? No. Would he be on certain teams? AZ, Yes. cle? No. Maybe he'd put too much pressure on himself to prove he was the staff ace [which leads to overthrowing and better chances to get hurt], who knows. there are solid reasons why people wouldn't want Clement on the sox. But I wouldn't be scared off of him because of a writer's speculation.

I think the quotes deals with Clement coming in and replacing Pedro. Any top SP who does go there will be asked to fill in right where Pedro left off. Does Clement have the stuff to be a #2 in Bos? No. Does he have the stuff to be the #3 on the Sox? Yes. Looking at it realistically, he was the #4 SP for the cubs. Chances are he won't fulfill the Bosox fans expectations of him being a Pedro replacement. Maybe the agent said too much, and voiced some private concerns. But everyone knows how fanatical and unforgiving Boston is. Not as much as NY. But darn close. Any SP who goes there has little room for failure.

I know its about the Red Sox. I was just pointing out the fact that if he cleared waivers, he could sign with any team and not have to go to ARB. [Which AJ cleared waivers, per the WP, and can negotiate a new deal]