beck72

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:49 PM) The Sox are 1-5 in their last 6 to simply call that a 3 game losing streak is inaccurate. No, it's accurate. Would it be accurate to call it a five game losing streak? I did preface my 1st post in saying the sox lost 2 of three to Boston before the break

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) We've lost 5 of our last 6 as well, and for another of those stretches we were 3-7....they don't have to be consecutive losing streaks for them to be losing skids. Didn't the sox win the previous 7 or 9 series before dropping the last two? QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:52 PM) Last year's slump was collossal and sent many top the ledge...and I have no idea what 3 "major" slumps you're talking about this year... Anyways, count me in as a firm-yet-unhappy-and-slightly-nervous-at-the-moment believer. Okee Dokee, you're on!

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) As a team, I don't think they are. The 2005 squad had exactly 1 slump where everyone was panicking. Thus far I count 3 major ones thus far this season. 2 four game slumps and 1 three game losing streaks are not "major" in my book

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:40 PM) I'm not worried yet, although clearly the pitching needs to get better. Call me crazy, I like our chances in the Detroit series. The matchups are Garland/Robertson, Vazquez/Bonderman, and Contreras/Rogers. Obviously that middle one is an issue, but I think we can win the other two. Another interesting thing about our record: we seem to struggle against teams that can hit more than teams that can pitch. Look at the teams that we have losing records against: Boston, New York, Cleveland, and Tampa Bay. Those teams can put up some runs (well, not Tampa Bay most of the time), but don't exactly have the most competent pitching staffs. On the other hand, we're 12-2 against the top 3 teams in the AL in ERA, which are Detroit, the Angels, and Oakland. It seems like our problems come against teams that can slug with us. I thought that was a bit weird. I'll put you down as a yes. But you can take yourself off at anytime I'm not that worried about the Detroit series either. The pressure is on them, really not the sox. They have to prove they can beat the Sox. The sox will show up, ready to play IMO.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) right on board good to have you QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:36 PM) This losing streak will pass. But right now we have a fundamental problem that even the next winning streak will not fix...we are being carried by our offense instead of our pitching. Last year, being carried by the pitching allowed us to, except for 1 stretch, cut short almost every major slump the team got into. This year, while being carried by the offense, we're far streakier, as we can go into slumps just by scoring 4 runs in a game. This is a fundamental problem, and whether it takes a trade, or Cooper smacking 5 guys across the ass with baseball bats, something needs to be done to fix it. So you're non-committal, correct As an aside, the 2006 sox are far less "slumpy" and more consistent than the 2005 cast of characters [i know there is no such word but I'm in a mood]

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 09:31 PM) I'm with you, Beck. Sounds good

Even after being swept by the Yanks, and looking bad vs the Red sox the three previous games, the sky is still not falling. This too will pass. The sox pitching can't get much worse. The offense can't be so ineffective in driving in runs. The defense can't be so shaky. A 3 game losing streak isn't great. But they've avoided big slides all year, only 2 four game streaks. They are still up in the wild card, and not far behind Detroit in the Central. The sox are healthy [i hope so]. There's a lot of baseball left to play. This team has more offense than last year, and just as much if not more heart. No deficit is too much for this team as they'll keep on fighting. The starters should turn it around, as all 5 have had substandard 1st halves [even Jose from what he had been pitching like the past year]. Jenks, Cotts, BMac and Thornton are very solid in the 'pen. So, for the pessimists, find another thread. This is for the silent majority who think the 2006 White sox have just as good a chance of winning the World Series as any team in baseball [save for some bullpen help of course, and any other gifts KW has up his sleeve]. Playoffs or Bust, 2006 White Sox! I'll add to the list as time goes on. So, who's with me? Beck 72 PS. Even for ye' of little faith, don't fret. You can sign on at any time [up until the day they clinch a playoff birth].

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 04:30 PM) Saying our guys are pitching below their career averages is misleading. With Garcia, his career numbers should be thrown out the window because due to losing his stuff, he's a completely different pitcher than he was in the past. Vazquez is a similar case: he hasn't been very good the past 2 and a half seasons so the career numbers should have less meaning as well. And with Garland, if he returns to his career averages, he's still not very good, and we need him to be very good. But I noticed you didn't give us Jose's numbers. I'm assuming you're putting more weight in Jose recent performances instead of automatically thinking he'll return to career norms. Well, you can't have it both ways. Barring injuries, are there any good reasons why these 4 SP's can't pitch better in the 2nd half of this yr? Even Jose has pitched worse than he did at the end of last yr, beginning of this yr. What's misleading about fully expecting this rotation to pitch better than they have? It's not like the sox rotation is a bunch of old stiffs with arms held together by duct tape. These are the horses [+1] that brought us a world series. Healthy, I'll stick with them. The only way to get better is to sell off our minor league system, which I don't think KW will do or should. Will the sox staff turn it around? I think so. The odds are in favor [yes, career avgs, and recent performances--the last yr or two, do count] If they don't, so be it.

I forget the stat that Fox said yesterday. Something along the lines of Pods hitting .330 in sox wins and like .188 in sox losses. The sox don't need Abreu. And Vazquez has as big a chance of any SP on the sox of improving in the 2nd half.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 02:11 PM) Every pitcher struggles at some point in the season. Buehrle himself once said that 1/3rd of the time, a pitcher has his stuff; the other third, he doesn't; and the last, he only has some of it. Buerhle pitches into the 7th, 8th inning his next start with 3 or less runs and everyone will forget his recent troubles

Besides Jose, everyone is pitching below their career avgs. And even Jose has dropped off from what he had been pitching like he was in the 2nd half of 05 and earlier this yr. It's like waiting on proven hitters to break out of their slumps. These guys are all proven, durable SP's. If they aren't injured, it's very reasonable to expect them to pitch better in the 2nd half Here are some pre-2006 career ERA avgs: Javy--4.28 current, 5.07 MB: 3.63, current, 4.43 Jon: 4.42, current, 5.37 Freddy: 3.93, current, 4.91

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 02:31 PM) Ahhh, the ole Jason Schmidt rumor again eh? This is one is like an ex gf you just can't shake. Except this year he's pitching like an ace.

How soon people forget how reliable, effective and his stellar win-loss record [for those only concerned about wins] Buerhle has been throughout his career? How many consecutive games did MB go pitching 6 innings +? How many times has he saved the bullpen from overuse? He's having trouble, not unlike struggles he's had before, keeping pitches up, missing his spots, getting smacked around. As long as he's healthy, MB's a solid bet of getting back to the effective pitcher he's always been

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 01:36 PM) Here's my assessment: Nothing personal, but I'd like to hear Coop and KW's assessments more.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 01:11 PM) Yep I don't want BA or B-Mac anyway involved in any trades whatsoever. Now if it was for Garcia and a prospect or two.............. That's what I was thinking. BA and BMac aren't going anywhere QUOTE(Felix @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 12:55 PM) I, for one, am hoping that the Giants stay in it. We don't need KW overpaying for a few months of Schmidt, especially if any deal includes either BMac or BA. I was referring to a Garcia for Schmidt and a bullpen arm. I'd never go for trading the young players like BA or Bmac

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 05:27 AM) Your response admits you agree with my thinking that the performance of the Sox rotation is not good enough to win the World Series. You ask what my solution is to fix the Sox rotation, but instead of answering, I'll ask this: Since you don't believe the performance of the Sox rotation is Championship-caliber, why do you defend and praise it, when you admit its performance is not Championship-caliber? I was responding to the posts that basically say the SP's suck. Is it "blemished thinking" [as you referred to my post] to think the current Sox SP's are more capable of rebounding than other rotations that are currently underperforming? You were the one that described the sox rotation as "shaky". Shaky IMO means a rotation held together by young unproven arms along with veterans on the DL. You're making the assumption that I don't believe the current sox SP's are capable of winning the WS. This is wrong. They won with this group and added an even better SP with Vazquez at #5. What's not to like? They aren't as consistent as last yr. There's no denying it. As long as they are healthy [all of them may not be] it doesn't make sense trading away the entire sox farm system for an arm that is better than what the sox have. It is very reasonable to expect the sox rotation to pitch better in the 2nd half. Barring injuries, to a man, all are capable of throwing better than their 1st halfs. I expect this. I suspect the sox brain trust are counting on this. My solution is to add a stellar bullpen arm ala Tom Gordon, have BMac around just in case he needs to be inserted into the rotation due to ineffectiveness/ injury, and count on the SP's to rebound. Your solution?

From today's Boston Globe: GM Brian Sabean said at the All-Star break that the Giants are buyers in the trade market (looking for a righthanded bat) and that ace Jason Schmidt was staying put unless the team was out of it. --If the Giants go on a prolonged losing streak, I could see Schmidt plus a reliever being moved for Garcia and some extra pieces [Haeger, Phillips, etc]. Yet they've been right around .500 all year. With that, they'll likely have a chance in the NL west. We can also hope SD reels off a 1o win streak to put distance between them and SF

Now with SF getting another SP back like Garcia, that would make sense in dealing Schmidt. Unless SF doesn't intend to re-sign Schmidt, or knows jason won't come back, getting another SP for next yr makes some sense.

I saw that Russell was pulled after going 3 shutout innings on the 13th vs Chattanooga. Any one know why?

QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) Most rotations won't win the World Series. Only one will, so comparing our shaky rotation to other rotations that won't win the World Series is blemished thinking. And your solution to change the current sox rotation into one that could win the world series is.....? The sox already upgraded its rotation from '05 with a trade of a solid bullpen guy and Chris Young a top prospect. Besides putting Bmac into the rotation, there aren't alot of better options out there. Like it or not, the sox and us fans will have to ride this rotation for this year and see where it takes them

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 02:04 AM) I dont think it would take a lights out middle relief pitcher but someone that can give us a Vizcaino type role out of the bullpen to replace B-Mac. than id hope a good prospect.... It should be for a lights out bullpen guy. Anything less and the sox wouldn't be getting the right kind of value

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 01:45 AM) Ken Rosenthal said this in his trade notes today; So if it's a starter dealt, looks like Freddy's the guy. If the sox are looking for a prospect ready to join the rotation in 2008 [someone the caliber of the 5 SP's we have now], that guy must be tearing up AA now. Few teams are going to give up a lights out set up man/ closer and a stud prospect.

QUOTE(dasox24 @ Jul 16, 2006 -> 12:48 AM) Right now, we could own the trade market and get way more than either Freddy or Javier is worth. The sox may be able to get more than either are worth. But the key question is, would the deal make the sox stronger, and more likely to repeat? The only way the sox could likely get more for htem is by getting prospects--hence, not likely to make them stronger this yr

QUOTE(beautox @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 09:00 PM) I think this team will turn it around we're only 2 games into the second half. I understand people are frustraed and disapointed when people(hawk, steve phillips) were billing this as one of the greatest rotations ever. This rotation outside of a week here or there hasn't clicked on all 5 cylinders and has just been mediocre. And this team is still 25 games over .500 with a far more inconsistent pitching staff. Hopefully these guys are healthy. If they are, they'll turn it around.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 09:25 PM) Our starting pitchers are simply worth more than Tom Gordon. Any and all of them are. Anything in our minor leagues for him is fair game. I agree. There will be a minor leaguer many on this board will see as untouchable traded, that the sox staff have pegged as "not coming back to bite them in the ass" [ie someone who has more value in trade than they do for the big club]. Who it is I don't know. But the sox have been right on w/ their trades and good judges of their minor league talent for a while now.