beck72

Two games into the 2nd half and the sox are worse than the Cubs, huh?! Jose pitched decent last night, the bullpen blew it. Today MB was rocked [again]. But will they get it back? Probably in time. If not, there isn't an arm out there that could help. The sox will live or die with their SP. The innings the last few yrs may be getting to them. But I'll still take them over most rotations out there.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 08:35 PM) I don't know why you think that. An All-Star closer for a struggling starting pitcher seems like a great return to me. I don't think KW will go for that, unless Philly adds more. QUOTE(AWhiteSoxinNJ @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 08:47 PM) Javy and Cash for Gordon....thats all i'm willing to offer....It would be a HUGE mistake to trade Freddy. Not going to happen

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 08:35 PM) I really hope the "Politte turning it around" thing was a joke. He's done. It's just too bad Kenny and/or Ozzie don't see it. Damn mop up work and the guy sucks big time. I said the Sox seem to be looking into that scenario [as they have made those public comments], along with Hermanson. It's not something I think will happen. Politte is hurt/ done/ not the same pitcher as he was in 2005 and cannot be trusted to hold a team down in the late innings.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 08:13 PM) Something just doesn't sound right about trading a SP for a reliever. I dunno. I don't know what Garcia's problem is, but I still don't think he's pitching as bad as the overall numbers look. Vazquez really, really, really needs to avoid the big inning. It's so Annoying. Garland isn't going to waive his NTC. You can't trade Buehrle even with his recent struggles. I agree. Esp. seeing how any deal has to improve the sox dramatically. Few teams will or are in a postition do that

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 07:36 PM) Well, I hope option 1 is the one we choose. We need help in our rotation and opening up a spot for McCarthy is still better than sitting on our hands hoping our guys just turn it around. Getting Gordon for one of our starters would be the best of both worlds, as it improves our rotation AND bullpen. Plus it means we still get to keep all our prospects as trading chips for another move if someone good becomes available (Schmidt, Willis, Smoltz, Jones, etc.). I guess the key is what team would be the trading partner. The sox it seems are set on getting top talent in any trade of a SP as they should. The proposed deals so far [mets and Philly for gordon] don't cut it. Teams hovering around .500 need to keep all their assets. Only deep pocketed and teams loaded with talent could be paying the sox asking price QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 06:44 PM) I wouldnt mind at all seeing Garcia or Vasquez packaged with a minor leaguer or even BA if we could get the right player. It sounds like KW wants "players" not just one guy in return for a SP [as he should]

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 03:19 PM) After listening to Ozzie and Bill Melton's post game comments, I think neither is going anywhere. It was a rumor started in NY, just before the Sox got to town. Coincidence or deliberate attempt to distract the team? I agree neither are going anywhere. KW probably put their names out there. But no team will give the Sox their asking price.

With all the Garcia/ Vazquez talk recently, and KW's and Ozzie's response to those questions, a few things jump out at me. Here is my take of what will/ may happen w/ the pitching: 1] I believe KW did let teams know a SP is available [for the right price of course--a top set up man and a very good prospect--Heilman, Bradford or Sanchez won't cut it]; however, few teams in the playoff hunt will bite. And the sox don't really want to mess with the rotation [and bullpen with BMac moving into the 5th spot] this summer. Only a blockbuster that will help improve the sox chances of repeating this yr. So the chances of a SP being moved is slim to none. But KW is throwing that option out there 2] The sox should tell Gillick that they'll beat any offer for Tom Gordon [ala the Freddy Garcia deal w/ Sea]. He's the best reliever out there right now. And it will give the sox a chance to up their offer at the last minute. The sox have the pieces Philly needs [sP-Broadway, Haeger, Phillips, TRacey and 3b in Fields]. The sox don't want to move Fields but may be forced to [esp if a team from the AL comes in and wants him]. Chances are it won't take Fields to land Gordon. But the chances of Gordon being aquired, IMO: very good 3] Other bullpen guys may become available as teams fall out of contention in the next few weeks. This may give the Sox other options to improve. Chances of other relievers being available: decent. But the fallback option is Gordon. 4] Politte and Hermanson may be able to get back on track in the next few weeks. Chances of either helping significantly: very slim Thoughts?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 09:51 PM) You know the other fairly amazing thing IMO? At least recently, while the only prospects who really look to knock your socks off in the big leagues are BMac and BA, the Sox have a ton of guys they've drafted and moved/let go who are cropping up all over the place. The sox prospects may be cropping up all over the place. But they aren't playing like all-stars--most are bench type players who really wouldn't have a spot for them on the sox 25 man roster. Most guys are playing in the NL [adkins, majewski, rauch, olivo, borchard, ring, ] where the competition is much weaker and they have a greater chance of making a watered down roster. QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 06:02 AM) Says who? The two comparisons I've heard people give to Chris Young and Gio Gonzalez are Mike Cameron and Oliver Perez. Tell me how those two are doing. I'm not taknig anything away from any of the aforementioned players. Cameron is extremely valuable in his own right, what with his gold glove defense, .775-.825 OPS, and his speed on the basepaths, and Oliver Perez can be an absolute stud on the mound for you, when he's right. But neither are world beaters. Of the prospects Kenny Williams has traded over the past 6 years, I can't think of 1 that has sustained success over a long period of time. Frank Francisco came up in 04, was very solid, threw a chair into the stands, and hasn't been heard from since. Jeremy Reed came up at the end of '04 and was hot as hell, and has hit for s*** since then. Mike Morse came up last year, set the world on fire for about 3 weeks, and is now hitting about .250 in Tacoma. Royce Ring was traded in 2003 and was an All-Star this year - in AAA. I have not seen a prospect, a true prospect, be dealt by Kenny Williams and go on to have success elsewhere. Whether that is poor scouting by the Sox, great scouting by the Sox, or poor scouting by other teams, I'm not sure, but it just hasn't happened. Given, he did trade Rauch and Majewski for Everett, and both of them have become very solid players for their respective teams, but neither were prospects. Rauch was 25, going on 26, and Majewski was headed to his 4th different organization, and is now in his 5th. People need to trust KW. He knows what he's doing. Wasn't there turn over in the sox scouting dept, IIRC, starting with the 2003 draft? There were some weak drafts with the top picks for the late 90's, early 2000's. The current scouting group has its act together. they know the guys the have drafted real well, and can judge their ceilings/ future. They have made trades when top prospects have been at their best w/o getting burned much.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 15, 2006 -> 11:58 AM) From the Trib; First time I've seen Broxton mentioned. Would love to nab him. Has a great arm, and would be an excellent set-up guy for the years to come. With the dodgers bullpen problems, Broxton could be to them what Jenks was to us last yr. I don't see him being moved

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 11:09 PM) 1st, I can say with confidence that Oz, Coop, and Kenny are putting no faith in Hermanson being effective this season, so you shouldn't either. 2nd, brining in an All-Star bullpen arm would be huge. Right now it's tough for Oz to play the match up game with Mac being the long man and Rikse being your only RH setup man(Cliff is DONE) You bring in Gordon, you have that "lock down" bullpen teams dream of. From the 7th on, you can play the match up games... Thornton-Riske-7th Cotts-Flash-8th Jenks-9th Not many teams are going to come back against that pen in October... Well said! Pin this post for anyone who questions why a trade is necessary.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 10:01 PM) If Humber does in fact have a 6-12 Curveball, I'd trade for his ass in a f***ing second. Damn, how could anyone hit a pitch that rises from their knees to the letters? You get my drift right

I don't know if this name has been mentioned as far as Mets prospects are concerned, but Phillip Humber is back throwing after Tommy John surgery. He was the Mets #3 prospect this yr from Baseball America [behind Pelfrey] even after having the surgery. He was throwing in AA to end last yr before he got hurt. He was the mets #1 pick in 2004, with a 91-94 mph FB and a 6-12 curve, and a changeup.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:16 PM) I would love to get Burke. I wouldn't mind trading Garcia or Vazquez, but I really don't want to trade Mackowiak. Are they actually considering that? I was speculating that because that MLB guy said the sox were scouting Burke. It wouldn't make any sense to get him and keep Mack. Besides, the Astros have trouble vs RHP. and the sox trouble vs LHp

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) Bmac>>>>>>>>>>>>Armas. Armas would get rocked here, no thanks. I understand BMac is better than Armas. But if Armas could eat some innings, it would save Bmac the trouble of stretching out, possibly getting hurt. And the sox would still need another bullpen arm who could go 2 innings at a time during crunch time if Bmac goes to the rotation.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:36 PM) yeah i agree with you...i think they can do better Unless the sox are using the Mets as a way to up the bidding. The mets may have to include Milledge in the deal, or go to another NL team. I don't see the Sox trading w/ the AL teams. Heilman or Sanchez alone won't cut it by a mile.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) I think if this trade were to be made, there would also be something else that would probably come down. I agree. Getting a 5th SP like Tony Armas Jr would allow the sox to keep Bmac right in the bullpen until 2007 as well. Why mess with Bmac if getting Armas wouldn't cost that much [probably expendable guys like Haeger, Phillips]?

Maybe it's just me, but neither Duaner Sanchez or Heilman thrill me. The sox sure could do better than either for giving up the best SP available in this market.

QUOTE(Contreras @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:14 PM) Where would he play? Seriously, though...Does that make Jenks the closer or Gordon the closer? It makes sense if Gordon were to be traded off at the end of the season, after using him for just the second half and the playoffs. He's getting too old to keep around with that contract. Jenks would be the closer, Flash in set up

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:09 PM) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...coop/index.html If there is one thing that all this talk shows, it's that every team in the majors can be a part of the trade deadline, as long as a team is able to trade players off their major league roster. No longer will a team out of playoff contention just trade for prospects. The sox are definitely ahead of the curve, with extra SP's and bench players who were regulars [Mackowiak and Cintron]. With guys locked up like Freddy and Javy, even mack, the sox have flexibility in trading more than others.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 03:04 PM) hows garcia for cordero and thomas diamond sound.... that could be too much to ask for, but if texas thinks cordero is toast maybe not It sounds good. With so many teams in need of SP, the sox should get a really good deal on Freddy [better than Olivo, Reed and Morse .] that fills the sox need this yr and something for the future.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) i think garcia, by far, is the more likely to get shipped, supposedly in ken rosenthalls newest article it says that some in teh sox organization feel like vazquez is primed to have the best second half of any of hteir pitchers I'm thinking the same. Esp with the extra innings Freddy has logged in '05. It might be a case of trading Freddy now before he pulls a Loaiza. Vazquez' arm and stuff are very, very good, even his BB/ K rate. It's more a mental thing with Javy. Freddy just seems to be struggling more this yr

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 01:52 PM) I thought Cordero was having a real bad year? Didnt he lose his closer job? Id hope we'd be able to get more than that. See DBAHO. Cordero's back on track, going through a nice run after a tough start. He's had a lot of blown saves as a closer. But Tex. seems set with te guy they got from SD.

Texas might be looking for a SP. Franciso Cordero in set up for the sox would be a nice move. Texas does have a nice bullpen that could absorb his loss http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...at.4658e98.html

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 01:37 PM) The article also mentioned Garcia as a guy who is very available. I don't know how he is in the clubhouse, but he has shown up teammates at least twice on the field this season. That and the fact that Buerhle throws harder than him at this point may be a couple reasons why he's available. I could see Garcia go. It would be interesting to see if one of them does get their walking papers and who comes bakc in return.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 14, 2006 -> 12:15 PM) 2005 chemistry has nothing to do with this year. It's a new group, new year, new chemistry. The White Sox are looking to add pieces, not trade starting pitching or key depth. They don't want to move sideways. I guess you didn't read this morning's papers. Vazquez for a top bullpen guy [and moving BMac to the rotation] IMO wouldn't be a sideways move. BMac should be able to better Javy's numbers and Qualls should step right in where Bmac was inconsistent. And if Mackowiak wasn't all he was cracked up to be [not the best CFer-has played little at 2b or 3b], getting a guy like Burke could be an improvement My main point about chemistry is that Vazquez doesn't have a long history with the sox. His leaving after a 1/2 yr wouldn't affect the players like a Freddy, Garland, etc. moving could. These guys build relationships, they aren't robots.