beck72

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 09:27 PM) If by little value you mean he has a shot at being our leftfielder next year, then I guess he has little value. If you read Merkin's piece on Whitesox.com on Fields, you get the sense that a positional change for Fields is in the future and it's even discussed by Razor Shines. No way he gets moved for Tom Gordon. "discussing" a move to LF is one thing. Having Fields play there for an extended period and him playing average to above avg defense in left field [at the major league level] is another. My biggest thing with Fields is him being blocked by Crede. Joe will not be let go by the Sox, and should be around for the next 5-10 yrs. QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 02:33 PM) I would trade anyone not named Fields or McCarthy for Gordon. Great power pitcher to have in October, although I don't think we can just assume he'll be this good for us for the next 2 years. Him being on a 3-yr contract isn't as exciting because of his age. You almost have to treat him like a free agent. Also, you have to be careful not to overuse the guy. IIRC, Torre burned him out for the playoffs the last 2 years. Gordon's innings are down after being used almost everyday in NY--IIRC he's on pace tp throw about 60 innings after throwing around 80 the last two yrs. He's certainly pitched well this yr. If he's not overused [Ozzie keeps his bullpen pretty fresh-the last two yrs they have pitched the fewest innings in the majors]. I could see Flash being saved and allowed to get his needed rest

No way does Schmidt get traded when he's having a stellar year. The Giants wouldn't even trade him when he sucked. Doesn't make sense to me why the Giants wouldn't re-sign him and offer him top dollar in the offseason.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 12:13 PM) Flash would be ideal and is obviously a stud but not for Fields, beck. If Josh gets traded before July 31st it'll be for a starting pitcher. I'm just thinking what Gillick would want from the sox. I'd love to get Flash for extra pieces but it isn't likely to happen. Fields is obviously valuable. And he's likely at the peak of his value with his AAA numbers being .329/.408/.559 [a year coming off a .252/.341/.408 line]. As far as what to get in return for Fields, a SP this year isn't going to happen [unless it's for a SP in the minor who could help next yr, but that is a stretch]. If Gordon is indeed on the market, some team will pay a top prospect for him. Fields has little value to the sox as a corner OFer/ DH, with Crede likely to get top dollar when it's time to re-up. The Sox have traded young prospects for established major leaguers to fill needs--a hitter [sP's for Thome] and a SP [a CFer for Vazquez]. I could see Fields going for pitching help. Seeing what the market was for those deals, Fields is about right for Gordon. Would I do it? Hard to say. But the sox have been willing to "overpay" to fill their needs. Fields for Gordon might be overpaying. But to keep the sox in contention for 3 more yrs might be too hard to pass up.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:51 AM) I would rather trade Fields for a Scott Linebrink type of reliever instead, someone who is a bit more affordable and younger but that's JMHO. Philly could be interested in a Ryan Sweeney. If they move Burrell or Abreu, they only have Victorino and Delucci as replacements. Otherwise Pat Gillick still wants good young pitching, so some SP prospects like Broadway. I would like a young affordable lights out reliever like Linebrink as well. It's just that no team will get rid of those guys. Guys like Cotts, Scot Shields, etc are invaluable to a club. The sox are finding that out with Politte this year. Without that stellar RH set up guy, it taxes the bullpen and the rest of the pitching staff to no ends. And it leaves the sox with no room for error on defense and offense. IMO, the sox should stick with the pitching and defense. The offense has slugged it's way to a great 1st half. But the improved starting pitching and bullpen that can keep a lead in 1 run games will carry the sox to the playoffs year in and year out. The sox should keep all their top pitching prospects, like Broadway, Lumsden etc. Dependable starting pitching is always at a premium.

Here are the details on Gordon's contract: Owed $4.5 mill this yr, $7 mill in '07, and $5.5 mill. in '08, with a 2009 team option for $4.5 mill or a $1 mill buyout. Seeing how few rock solid playoff teams need closers [no team is really jumping out at me that is in desperate need of a closer, though the Dodgers may be one], he'd be an expensive set up guy. Yet the Sox could afford him as they have their top young bullpen guys [Jenks, Cotts and Thonrton] making peanuts. Add in the fact that a SP is likely to be traded in the offseason [vazquez] with Bmac taking his spot, and the sox could afford him. QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 10, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) There's not a chance in hell the White Sox trade Fields straight up for Gordon. Zero chance. Even at the prospect of setting up the sox bullpen into one of the best in the baseball for the next three years? It's hard to gauge what the asking price for Gordon would be. But seeing how most teams are desperate for bullpen guys, I could see Philly asking for a top prospect in return for gordon and getting one from a team.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/15002669.htm Though his $6 mill a yr salary is steep for a set up guy, the sox have a lot of young bullpen guys right now and for the future--Which means they are both cheap and inexperienced [mostly after Jenks and cotts the Sox are thin]. They could absorb his salary taking those factors into account. Gordon would also be great insurance in case Jenks got hurt. Would the Sox make good trading partners with the Phills? The Thome trade was a win-win for both clubs. Why not? The sox would be likely as any club to trade and match up with what they want. Josh Fields would have to look good to them, with Bell in his last year. Fields could take over to start 2007 at 3b for them. Normally, trading a top prospect for an old pitcher wouldn't make sense. But not if that old guy can be around for 3 seasons.

FWIW, The Pirates are the only team in the top 13-14 in MLB in terms of Bullpen ERA who are out of playoff contention. And Roberto's the only one likely to be traded with a sub 3.00 ERA. Of the teams out of contention, [Philly may be soon out of it they have the 5th best ERA, 3.50] Pitt is 8th with a 3.95 ERA, the Cubs 14th w/ a 4.25, and Marlins have the 16th best, w/ a 4.30 ERA. The sox are 13th w/ a 4.22 ERA.

IIRC, Ozzie was coaching w/ Montreal when Mota was pitching there in 2001, 2002

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 01:21 PM) The Sox play the Yankees next week, they're most likely scouting the Yankees. With the Indians in sell off mode [Jason Johnson and Perez traded already] one of their bullpen arms should be on the block. Not that many teams just happen to all show up to scout the Yanks on the same day. I can't see Betancourt on the block. Though that's who I'd like the sox to pick up. Most likely it's Guillermo Mota, with him being the oldest, least tenure w/ the indians and most expensive arm of the three. Johnson and Perez were all offseason pickups, like Mota.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 01:13 PM) Yeah that would make the most sense, although I couldn't see the Indians dealing with us. Or maybe an outfielder like Jason Michaels. For a spare part like the 12th pitcher, I could see the Indians dealing w/ us. Whichever team gave them the best deal. The sox would more likely be afraid of dealing w/ the indians, as one of their prospects could hurt the sox for yrs to come.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/torre...george_king.htm Here was the qoute: "The Braves and White Sox had two scouts at last night's Yankees game, and the Tigers and Mariners were represented by one each." My bet is the Indians. Three relievers pitched: Betancourt, Cabrera, and Mota

Williamson's arm is about to fall off. I remember how limp his arm was when he re-injured his elbow and the cubs called it "tendinitis". What a joke. They're putting him out there hoping to nload him onto some team. good riddance to bad garbage

A few things: *Vazquez was brought in here as the 5th starter. A damn expensive 5th SP but a 5th starter nonetheless. He's performed like a 5th SP though he's getting paid like a #1 or a #2. He has some nasty stuff. Yet he's been hurt by not making the big pitch when he's needed to. Hopefully he can correct this before too long. It seems now it's all mental with Javy. Get him to a shrink quick *He was [and still is] insurance in case someone got hurt from the extra innings thrown in 2005. No one's been hurt [except for Jose]. Someone goes down and the 5th SP / bullpen loss of Bmac complaining would never end. *He's not going anywhere this yr and Bmac isn't going to the rotation. Something may be done in the offseason. Vazquez will have value. Look at the teams foaming at the mouth over AJ burnett. They may not get a Chris Young back. But if his trade helped the pitching staff get back to the playoffs, it'd have been worth it. *Contreras needed a yr to turn his career around. Vazquez may need similar time. If he hasn't corrected his problems by then, he won't have that yr with the sox to turn it around.

QUOTE(beautox @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 01:09 AM) Just throwing this out there; Does anyone think this could be the decline of Chone much like Juan Pierre? there both roughly the same age, and similar type of player(a scrappy leadoff hitter), all though Chone can play a ton of posistions so that is definatly a plus. That comparison could be valid. And if Figgins had another bad yr, like Pierre is having, the Angels would get far less in a trade for him. Why not sell now when is value is still high.

If the cost of Figgins was something along the lines of Mackowiak, Jerry Owens and Ray Liotta, I could see the sox biting. Mack could help the Angels now with his versatility and power, and Owens and Liotta for the near future.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 30, 2006 -> 11:39 AM) Not like it means anything, but in one of the Pittsburgh games, I saw Garland warming up in the pen (he could have just been tossing though, not really warming up). It was probably just him getting his side work in. If the Sox make the playoffs, though, it's a lock that either Jon or Javy are the most likely guys moved to the pen. Adding one of those two to the late innings really would solidify the pen. If the current bullpen guys stay solid from here through Sept, [which is very possible--all the guys are solid major leaguers--there isn't anyone to send down or trade], the Sox would be set for the playoffs with the pen + a SP. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 30, 2006 -> 02:41 PM) Because of the sucktitude of the al and nl wests the trade deadline is going to be very tame again. That doesn't bother me at all though considering I believe we have the best roster in all the majors and if every team stays as is, I like our chances a lot. Seeing how in the offseason the prices for players was high, there was no reason to expect a dropoff at the trade deadline this yr. KW got Cintron and Mack [and Javy] for exactly those reasons. Looking around the AL, both the white and red sox are in decent shape health and roster wise. Det. is OK but they could be an injury or two away from trouble

According to KW, there isn't much talent out there better than what the sox already have. I have to agree. Barring an injury, the sox are pretty solid. Why completely overpay for a marginal upgrade in talent that could backfire chemistry wise. If the sox held pat last year except for Blum, this year I don't expect the Sox to do that even. At the end of the piece, the Tribune seems to think KW is talking about a SP going to the bullpen for a turn due to off days. I think KW's talking about the playoffs, having a SP going to the pen is better than any other arm the sox could add via trade. Adding Vazquez or Garland to the bullpen mix would be a very solid upgrade. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines

If you scroll down, the article says Kenny Williams is in Pittsburgh. The Tribune is speculating that he's there to see ROberto Hernandez or solomon Torres. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...tesox-headlines With Oliver Perez being demoted to the bullpen [is 2-10 this yr with a huge ERA, after having a down 2005 with a + 5 ERA as well], could a deal be swung for Perez? He'd be in the sox bullpen. But he may need some work with Cooper. With the kind of stuff Perez has, if the sox could get him back on track, they could be sitting on 7 SP's going into 2007. Pitt needs all the help they can get. If the Sox could part with some arms like Tracey, Haegar and Heath Phillips, Pitt would have to think about it. Esp. if Pitt thinks Perez is back to his old days of +5 ERA's--which is why San Diego traded him]

QUOTE(mrzo2733 @ Jun 26, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) You can't really go out and get relievers of the future, because if they were that good and that young, you'd never be able to trade for one anyways. I agree with the point that relievers (except the special ones) are very hit or miss from year to year. Age doesn't matter, if you can get guys out then you can get them out. If he's cheap, it seems like a good move. That's why I was saying to get a young bullpen guy would be hard. The time to get a stellar bullpen guy is the offseason.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 25, 2006 -> 09:15 PM) We'd only have him for the rest of the year. I couldn't find the green. Roberto seems to have done well the last yr and half I agree. If the sox can't find a bullpen guy for the future [which will be hard, though Riske has some upside], better to get a one yr rental.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 25, 2006 -> 08:37 PM) I'd love to have Hernandez back. The guy has done nothing but get guys out the last year and a half. He'd make our bullpen argubly the best in the AL. It doesn't matter who he gets out, he's old

Here are his stats: And, he's 41 this yr. He'll turn 42 in Nov. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2455 Though his K's are down a bit, his 1.81 GB: FB ratio would be good for the summer months at the cell. No one is saying Hernandez is an allstar. Yet year in and year out, relievers are either hit or miss. Hernandez seems to be hitting this year. With what seems to be a very down market for bullpen help available, a team could do a lot worse than Roberto.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 25, 2006 -> 01:56 PM) I'm not too keen on picking up a 42 year old. That's more of a Yankee move. The guy is throwing well, regardless of his age. As long as the guy can get outs. He's been esp tough vs righties [ala the 2005 Politte].

According to: http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=478568&rfi=6 Not a bad pick up. Shouldn't cost much talent at all. Good insurance should Politte not make it back, and he'd still would have a spot. I remember him having trouble w/ giving HR's not too long ago. Only allowed 2 this yr in 30 + innings

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jun 25, 2006 -> 02:45 AM) I agree with your comments on Fields. His value is higher as a 3B than an outfielder which is why, I believe, they haven't moved him to left though they did discuss it at one point. Esp. with Crede so strong offensively and defensively. Even if they can't re-sign Joe [which the sox should be able to strike a reasonable deal] by 2008 Fields will already be in the bigs at 3b somewhere, not the Of.