almagest

I think the board insiders are presenting the information they know from people in the Sox organization. It's apparent to all of us that the team vastly underestimated the market for Machado and lost BADLY in this negotiation. I don't blame the board insiders for that, I blame the team. I also don't blame insiders for saying "hey we're still in for Harper" if that's what they hear. I'm sure we are. I'm almost positive they can't convert, though, because of how badly they blew the negotiation with Machado. As for the speculation the Sox would sign both - it's apparent they had unrealistic numbers to achieve this, if it's true. I honestly doubt it is, mainly because they would've been better off securing Machado for 10/300+ and bowing out on Harper instead of bowing out on Machado and almost starting over with Harper. You were close on Machado. You're not close on Harper (presumably). It just doesn't line up that they wanted both. Man, I would love to be proven wrong.

I have all of these things. I barely have any time for hobbies. I still care about the team but the White Sox royally pissed me off with this shit show and I'm here still following because of one last long shot on Harper.

30 year old free agents mean you’d better be competitive in the first or second year and you have a relatively small window with that player before they decline. I don’t think the Sox as constructed are competitive in 2020. They’re relying way too heavily on all their prospects hitting at the same time this year to be good enough to sign a few key free agents for 2020 to push them over the top. Machado buys you some leeway to not have to rely heavily on Moncada and Madrigal, and Harper allows you to trade from depth for other pieces. Also honestly even if they’re still good for a while Rendon and Arenado are pipe dreams. They’ve never done anything but overpay mediocre players.

I would really like to know how they think we should consider them as serious bidders when the projected contract for Machado was 10/300 or higher, and he signed for the low end of that projection and they still couldn't match.

In an ideal world yes. Problem is this is a once-in-a-generation free agent class so you make exceptions. They blew it instead and the options for the next few years are nowhere near as attractive.

So much for "really blowing him away" with their presentation.

I'm for sure out for a while. No games, nothing but highlights and an occasional check to see how players are doing. I'll probably lurk here when bored (as usual). Gonna follow some NPB, Brewers and Cardinals this year. I wish I didn't feel this way. I wish I still cared.

What is there to be proud of? They lost to a standard contract! No one wants to hear how you built a losing deal that completely misestimated what it would take to get it done. Unbelievable.

Yeah I think they're really out. I don't think this is posturing. I think recent events have shown they aren't smart enough to do that.

I would love for this to be true but we've heard the Sox won't go to 300 mil guaranteed and they haven't spoken to Harper in months. It might be that he told teams "I'm waiting for Machado" but at this point with this epic failure fresh in mind I seriously doubt it. If Harper doesn't want the Phillies he might take that short term deal for a year or two and try again when more big markets free up money.

No wonder we had to wait until fucking February. Why in the world would Machado accept an offer without an opt-out? Even a 5 year opt out means the signing team gets his best years! Unbelievable. I change my mind. This was not a competitive offer. Not even close.

Yeah. If we were out earlyish I’d be a little pissed but it’s what I expected. They put forth their absolute best effort and still lost and lost badly.

If they're also not going to 300 for Machado we have a chance for Harper still. Get it done White Sox. Also sounds like the Sox knew and could match but assumed their offer was "better" somehow. They completely failed to understand what Machado wanted. What a disaster of a negotiation.

I think this is true. Lozano took final bids, White Sox fell short. I don't necessarily fault them for that particular sequence of events, its just everything leading up to it. We should never have been in a situation where the Padres could jump in and make a fair offer and beat us.

It's honestly under fair value if you price WAR ~$9m and wouldn't cripple the franchise because they have few other commitments. This was their best opportunity to buy a superstar and they failed. They also brought in two guys who shouldn't be on this team and still failed. Now they look like idiots. I honestly don't know how you're able to spin this into a positive.

If it's not Bryce Harper then don't even bother mentioning it.

How is 10/300 insane?

It's also absolutely mind-boggling that the White Sox signed Jay and traded in-division for Alonso and ended up without Machado. I just can't get over it. What a disaster.

I agree. There's no need for either of them right now, so swallow your pride and find partners or DFA/trade them both. Let them sign somewhere better for them and for us.

The White Sox absolutely have to sign Harper now. There's really no other option. It's not even just the talent he has and the value he has on and off the field at ~35 mil/yr. It's also the perception value here. This franchise right now is as low as I can remember it being. They need a redemption badly, and nothing like Harper is coming any time in the next few years.

That obviously didn't matter to Machado. Know who you are trying to sign a contract with and adjust your offer accordingly.

If they're so loyal why not guarantee the last 2 years? He'll have absolutely given you his best in the previous years so take care of him 100% from the get go.

Those options would likely never vest because no way he'd be worth that much when he's 35/36 and he knows it. Otherwise god damnit that offer is SO CLOSE. If they guaranteed those two years he'd be a White Sox now. Make the same offer to Harper but at 10 guaranteed with 31.25/yr and 35 in the last two and you're at 320 million.

It's not even that. It's nice to know you are able to fail. People who don't think they can fail are going to be super conservative. The problem is the Sox apparently don't hire people who take real risks and don't have a culture where you (apparently) can even do that.

It's not even winning tbh. That obviously doesn't matter. It's getting shit on by media and fans. It's proving that this team deserves to be an irrelevant laughingstock. I'm hoping that's what pisses Jerry and the front office off enough to push them to sign Harper. He won't be getting some absurd 10/400+ number like some speculated. I really think if we push above 10/325 or something we get him and that should be plenty palatable to the White Sox, especially knowing what the market has been set at and what they obviously misunderstood about it.