DBAHO

QUOTE(YASNY @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:24 PM) I really believe that KW has decided to keep BMac, Sweeney and Anderson. I doubt that he'll move these guys. He'd have to overwhelmed to consider it. Just my opinion. After those 3, I think we need to keep Gio Gonzalez also, who was absolutely dominating down at Kanny before his side strain. He'll be with the Warthogs soon after he comes back. Then of course you've got Fields and Sean Tracey, and Chris Young's value is rising every day.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) If they take wagner . we'll take kolb Now there's a possible scenario no-one's mentioned. Too bad he doesn't K batters enough though. And when does a pitcher who goes under Leo Mazzone's coaching get worse?

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:06 PM) I am thinking of 2005 as well. So am I but I want to be able to contend for multiple seasons as well.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:01 PM) Re-signing Wagner means little in the equation. They would be trading for Wagner to win it all THIS season, not next season. And if that doesn't happen, what are you left with? Nothing. That's the risk KW has to decide whether or not to take.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:59 PM) Not too many teams. Most contending teams are already contenders because they already have a closer like wagner. Ok let's see then. Atlanta could use Wagner. Florida could use Wagner. The Mets could use Wagner. San Francisco could pull a shocker and acquire Wagner if Benitez doesn't come back. If Isringhausen keeps getting injured, St. Louis could acquire Wagner. There'll be teams interested.

QUOTE(qwerty @ May 11, 2005 -> 06:00 PM) We knew the chances of signing garcia were much greater than the chance of signing wagner ( 0 percent). Thank you for stating that. That trade would have been terrible if that didn't happen.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:53 PM) Even if he helped us get to the playoffs, the WS, or possibly even win the WS? Ridiculous. You value prospects over a WS. Not necessarily. It's an all or nothing approach here. Anderson or Sweeney could be starting for us next season if Dye continues to stink it up. B-Mac could very well be in our rotation if KW decides to make a move with one of our 5 starters. I want to win a World Series more than anything, but we have to get there first, and that may not even happen if or if we don't acquire Wagner. It's too early to predict. And there'll probably be other teams willing to give up real good prospects for Wagner as well.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:49 PM) Let me note. I am willing to risk that scenerio for a chance to win a ws. But is Wagner the main solution to our problems? Is the offense going to heat up enough in October to have enough chances to close? Are our starters good enough in a 5 game series? To me, KW is just going to acquire a good clubhouse guy right handed hitter which was stated by him and Ozzie in yesterday's Trib and Sun - Times IIRC.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:47 PM) If Jose Mesa was such a good closer and could be trusted in critical situations, why hasn't any team traded for him in the past couple years at the deadline? Do you really think the Pirates need to keep Mesa? They never come close to winning the division so why do they need a good closer? Because no team wants his choking ass, that's why. 2 years ago that wasn't the case. He was lucky to wind up with a job with the Pirates, and look what he's done since then. There are so many teams desperate for closers (more than us) and since Mesa can be had for less than other big names (and is cheaper), some team will probably trade for him. Pittsburgh don't need him now, he's a luxury, but it's not as if he's too expensive for them.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:47 PM) and thats a 100 % definate chance of happening? You are looking at the absolute worst scenerio if we got wagner. Well it's not worth trading for him if we can't resign him to a long - term deal in my opinion.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:46 PM) we have a better shot with wagner rather than mesa. If this team turns out to be special why would we not to do all we can to put us over the top? But here's what the Sox have to determine. Is it worth trading for Wagner who would save you an extra couple of games late in the season, for an outfielder or pitcher that would produce very well at a cost of $300,000? Anyway it's still way too early to determine whether or not Wagner will put us over the top, when we may not even be in that position late in the season. And KW and Ozzie said in 2 articles yesterday they won't be making a BIG move at the deadline.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:41 PM) Better than acquiring Jose Mesa and choking in Game 7. And that's a definite 100% chance of occuring. Maybe some other team acquires Mesa for the stretch run, and we see him choke again, or maybe we don't. We acquire Wagner, give up one of Anderson, Sweeney or B-Mac, we miss the playoffs, and Wagner leaves as a FA after the season. That's a big, big loss.

QUOTE(rangercal @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:33 PM) Since we didn't get Vizquel, It only makes sense to get Mesa. Seriously though, 2005 World Series Champion Chicago White Sox > Brian Anderson I love this mentality of acquire Billy Wagner and we win the World Series. That's not going to happen. Mesa may not be the guy to go after, but I don't want to give up a king's ransom for Wagner, when it could be likely Shingo could turn it around, or Marte or Hermanson could fill in and do the job.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:24 PM) Jose Mesa? Wow, do you really want another choke artist that badly? You have to give up talent to get talent and Billy Wagner makes Jose Mesa look like LaTroy Hawkins when it comes down to it. I wouldn't trust Jose Mesa as far as I could throw him, regardless of his stats so far this season. That's just your point of view on him. People are always going to be wary because of what's happened before his stint in Pittsburgh. But a guy who has an ERA 2.45 with 11 out of 11 save chances, who could be available cheaply, should be looked at. Who even says Wagner is going to be available anyway? Philly can turn it around with the players they've got. Also Wagner is a FA after this season, if we give up some uber prospects for him, and he doesn't resign, it's the Freddy Garcia trade gone bad.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ May 11, 2005 -> 05:12 PM) I love the idea of trading for Wagner if we need him by the deadline. He would bump the rest of our relievers into a less stressful role. I don't think I could stomach it if we have to give up B-Mac or Brian Anderson though. I'd be fine giving up Sweeney and other prospects though. No on Sweeney. He's been injured for the 1st month and is just starting now in B-Ham, hitting bout .289. Long - term he's got more potential than Anderson. I'd like to think we'll need both in the future, one in the DH spot possibly and one as an outfielder. Everyone loves Wagner because he'll be dominant, but he's also injury prone. If you get a guy like Jose Mesa instead for cheaper, (and give up a guy like Joe Borchard instead), KW should look into that.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ May 10, 2005 -> 04:01 AM) I'm completely forget about this preseason fiasco. Any trade scenario in which four players (two major league contributers, two prospects; possibly higher tier) are traded for one player, even if that person is Randy Johnson, is terrible managing. I'm glad Williams avoided Arizona's ridiculous demands. Ultimately, both teams are better now because of their respective moves, so no harm is done. Now, let's all reflect on this thread and laugh at those who supported a RJ trade. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...%20johnson&st=0 Isn't thread bumpin so much fun. I remember that thread well, and no I wasn't in favor of a deal for RJ.

QUOTE(doUrememberwhen @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:23 PM) Oh well woulda liked to sign him cheap as a dime back and b/u safety but i guess he thinks he'll get money elsewhere. Maybe Minnesota, they seem willing to overpay for one year wonders. Hmmhmm Fred smoot You don't think Fred Smoot was worth the money he got compared to the deals other CB's signed this off-season and last off-season? What about the likes of Jason Webster? Minny sure have a nice CB tamden in Smoot and Winfield now though.

Was Rolen worth the money he got in his deal? Just like to hear some thoughts on that.

Chris Young starting in B-Ham was certainly the right move after all. Him and Owens have been the pleasent suprises this season so far.

QUOTE(qwerty @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:35 PM) That was not the case in the game thread tonight. I haven't checked the last half of the game thread since I'm at Uni. What are his splits against lefties and righties now FWIW.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) I wanted him in AAA so he could learn how to avoid the longball in a bandbox. After all, USCF is not pitcher's dream. I don't really care about the strikeouts. I just want to see him simultaneously keep the walk rate and HR rate low. That will get it done at the majors. And Charlotte's a perfect place for him to do that, since it's a lot like the Cell HR wise. Keep B-Mac down there, let him progress, so that when he does come up, he isn't giving up HR's at the rate he is now.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:32 PM) Luis Vizcaino.... I knew it was one or the other. Vizcaino's gotta pick it up no doubt, he's been pretty immune from criticism so far (although there was the Cleveland outing).

Damn I really got to get in quicker on these game threads (DBAH0's 05 record 1-0).

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ May 11, 2005 -> 02:27 PM) I personally don't see why they would want Anderson, they have quite a few good young OF. McCarthy would definitely be involved, but I would think they would want more pitching prospects, or maybe Garland (not saying I'd do it, just saying they might). It looks like they are going to trade Johnny Gomes (Kansas City there is the young corner outfielder you have been looking for). Lou Pinella can only want Alex Sanchez in his starting lineup for so long. Anderson could DH as well, so they'd probably find some room for him, or get another team involved. Can you imagine McCarthy and Jeff Nieminn? pitching in the same staff with Scott Kazmir a few years from now though?