VAfan

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 04:13 PM) There's not a manager in baseball who'd rather have Everett play than Huff. I might start Huff ahead of Everett myself, but I'm not sure Ozzie would. Even so, the marginal difference between Everett and Huff is not worth surrendering "the next Jack McDowell," now is it? Look at Oakland. You think Billy Beane would give up any of his 5 starters for Aubrey Huff? Is McCarthy as good as at least 3 of them?

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) Leave Soxtalk. Please. Just Leave. Asking nicely. ...do us all the favor and play MVP baseball from now until 3:00 CT. It's a magical fantasy world in which you can trade for whomever you wish! It's a real Candyland...of the mind, the mind. That is such crap. I've been a member on this site longer than you have. And you think I should leave because I have a high opinion of Brandon McCarthy and a realistic view of Aubrey Huff? I believe if you look that I put up a post well before you this year that the Sox should acquire Aubrey Huff. So cut the crap.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 04:02 PM) Curious, how many threads are you gonna start about not trading Brandon McCarthy? I think your position is pretty well known on this topic. Why don't you answer the question of the thread? Would you trade McCarthy for Huff? Would you start Huff ahead of one of the 5 guys I mentioned?

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 04:02 PM) You have no idea what Huff's trade value is do you? None. Just to put things into perspective: the Red Sox were supposedly offering their #1 prospect plus others for Huff alone. You pie-in-the-sky, MVP Baseball GMs have no idea what it would take to get a player of Huff's callibur. Just to answer your question: yes, Huff would start in the playoffs, assuming Thomas is still DL'd and such. C-Pierzynski 1B-Huff 2B-Iguchi SS-Uribe 3B-Crede OF-Rowand OF-Podsednik OF-Dye DH-Konerko/Everett Huff isn't even the starting 1B for Tampa Bay! The very exciting Travis Lee - he of 2 Hrs and 21 RBI, has started 62 of TBs games at that position this year. So you think he's going to push Paul Konerko to the bench? Who needs to get a grip?

I'm all for getting Aubrey Huff and having him take Ross Gload's spot on the roster. But I'm not willing, and I hope KW is not willing, to give up Brandon McCarthy for him. McCarthy is the only pitcher we have in our system (Neal Cotts maybe) who could replace one of the Cubans as a starter next year or by 2007 when their contracts are up. To put Huff's value in context, ask yourself whether Ozzie would even start him in game 1 of the playoffs. Then answer who he would replace. Joe Crede - big defensive dropoff using Huff Carl Everett - best possibility, but it disses Everett's early season heroics Jermaine Dye - I don't think so Paul Konerko - no Scott Podsednik - NO So, all of you guys who are ready to trade a cornerstone pitcher like Brandon McCarthy for a playoff role player, step back and think about how that will weaken the Sox' chances of making the playoffs for several years to come. That would be a very bad deal.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 03:16 PM) there are many ways to build a club. oakland does extremely well being able to build on young players. but its an extremely difficult way to win. there are countless other teams that fail at it. sooner or later it will fail for oakland too, but thats how baseball is , its cyclic. the yankees and red sox win every year by making those trades for huff and not playin any youngsters( til this year). that also inflates payroll, so midlevel teams must find a way to balance what oakland and new york do, and i think the white sox can and should go out and get huff, because i think in the second half in our ballpark, he would be our second best overall hitter, behind dye I'm not against getting Huff. Way way back in May I think I suggested he'd be a good trade acquisition. But he's not a cornerstone player. Brandon McCarthy is going to be a cornerstone player within the next 2 years. By no later than 2007, we have to replace both of our Cuban starters. Who is going to fill those holes? Is JR going to beat all bidders and put AJ Burnett in one of those slots? I don't think so. Brandon McCarthy is the only pitcher we have in our system that can fill one of those holes by 2007. Neal Cotts would rank #2, but that would rob us of a great bullpen pitcher. In the meantime, does Aubrey Huff even start game 1 of the playoffs? Does Ozzie use him instead of Crede? Everett? Konerko? Dye? Podsednik?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 05:18 AM) Definitely not. He is a quality arm with goof stuff but to overpay for him would be bad. Baez and Huff for MBac, Sweeney, and Tracy??? Yes, No? Thank goodness you aren't the GM. I wouldn't give up BMac straight up for Huff and Baez because I don't want "Blown Save" Baez at any price. Huff is a decent player, but he has no position. He's a 5-position backup. Tracey, fine. Not BMac and not Sweeney.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Jul 31, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) I think that if you have to ask the question "Where do I fit this guy into the lineup?," you don't trade McCarthy for him. That kind of excludes Aubrey Huff IMHO. I don't like a two-month rental of AJ Burnett, either, since McCarthy will be better than Burnett in 2007, and if you don't trade him, he will be a White Sox in 2007. Burnett won't. I'm now pretty firmly against trading McCarthy for any of the shark bait out there. Adam Dunn I could see, if he were available, but he's not. I love your question "Where do I fit this guy into the lineup"? It captures Aubrey Huff perfectly. Frankly, it also fits for Lyle Overbay, who wouldn't send Paul Konerko to the bench either (though I think Overbay has more upside than Huff). Kalapse, methinks you seriously overrate Huff, who is a bad defensive player at any position he plays. Now again, I'd love Huff for the stretch run. But not at the cost of McCarthy. It's McCarthy's K/BB ratio that convinces me he's going to be a solid pitcher. Give him a year of AAA seasoning and an offseason to improve his changeup and he'll be ready to help us next year. Then I expect him to take over for one of the Cubans full time in 2007 and not look back. Oakland, Oakland, Oakland. They are going to pass the Angels and win the west because Billy Beane values young pitchers, finds the right ones, and lets them play. It keeps his payroll down too.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 06:12 AM) Aubrey Huff is not worth signing to a long term contract at any of 1B, DH or OF? Well that makes s*** of sense. Last take a look at Aubrey Huff's short career shall we. _____________________________________________________________ 2000: (Rookie Year) only 122 ABs batted .287 with 4 HRs and a .760 OPS 2001: 411 ABs 25 2B, 8 HR, 45 RBI, .248 BA, .288 OBP, .660 OPS 2002: 454 ABs 25 2B, 23 HR, 59 RBI, .313 BA, .364 OBP, .884 OPS 2003: 636 ABs 47 2B, 34 HR, 107 RBI, .311 BA, .367 OBP, .922 OPS 2004: 600 ABs 27 2B, 29 HR, 104 RBI, .297 BA, .360 OBP, .853 OPS 2005: 364 ABs 17 2B, 13 HR, 60 RBI, .266 BA, .326 OBP, .749 OPS +++ '05 July: 93 ABs 6 2B, 8 HR, 21 RBI, .311 BA, .347 OBP, .958 OPS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking at his '03 and '04 seasons alone at the age of 26 and 27 once he was settled into the league (you can't count this season seeing how there's still 2 months left), if you average those two seasons out you get: '03+'04: 618 ABs 37 2B, 31 HR, 105 RBI, .304 BA, .363 OBP, .887 OPS That my friend is a 30/100/.300 player with a .875+ OPS. Those types of players are hard to come by. He would be worth signing to a long term contract to serve as your 1Bman or DH. He's only 28 and switching to a contender would most likely just improve his production seeing how he'll have something to play for for the first time in his career. I just don't think Aubrey Huff is a difference maker as an offensive player. He's a nice solid ballplayer who started the season worse than Juan Uribe, but he's turned it around in July. Would I take him over Carl Everett next year as a DH and platoon guy? Yes, because he's signed for another year. Do I think he's a better hitter than Jermaine Dye or Paul Konerko? He was in 2002. But his decline early this year gives one pause. My point is that I believe Brandon McCarthy will definitely be a difference maker, and I'm not willing to trade a guy we might have for a year and 2 months for a pitcher who might become a key member of our rotation for 5-6 years. If McCarthy is even 80% as good as Jack McDowell, that would be a lot of wins before he became a free agent. I'm willing to consider trading McCarthy for another cornerstone player who is in his early 20s that is just as good. But I hope he's not traded for someone, like Aubrey Huff or Danys Baez who would only be on our team for a blip in time and in 5 years you would have forgotten that they ever played for the Sox. (Again, I'd be happy to add Huff; I just wouldn't trade McCarthy to get him. "Blown Save" Baez I'd rather pass on regardless of price.) As for Guardado, I think he'd be a great addition. Indeed, I think he could add more value to our playoff roster than many of the names being bandied about. But it won't take Brandon McCarthy to get him.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 09:00 PM) Did Burnett's start today take him off the market? 7 IP, 4 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 8 SO. Now 3.30 ERA. Contreras with 4.58 ERA. Still think he can't help us? Sure, it was a very nice game. But remember, it was against the Nats, the worst offense in baseball.

I know he's been discussed before. And I have no rumors to report. But I look out there at the prospect of a Frankless team in the playoffs with no one in the lineup who will scare anyone and wonder what deal could get done. Adam Dunn. That's the name that jumps out at me. I bet he would be available for less than what Aubrey Huff will fetch. Yet Dunn is someone you can build upon. He's 25. He'd be perfect at DH. He's a LH bat like we haven't had in a long time. Now the rumor board says Cincy wants a #3 pitcher for him. Of course I wouldn't give up Jon Garland for him, and I don't think Cincy would accept either of our Cuban pitchers. But they aren't going any where this year. So why wouldn't they accept a combination of very solid minor league pitchers? Brandon McCarthy and Tracey, or McCarthy and 2-3 B-list pitchers? Dunn strikes out a lot, and doesn't hit for a high average. But his OBP is close to .400, so he isn't making that many outs. He would look very good in the middle of our lineup.

Let me toss out a name I would consider trading McCarthy for. ADAM DUNN.

Aubrey Huff would be a nice addition if he could be had for a fair price. He could play some 3B, some 1B, some RF, some DH. And he'd be a lefty bat. But he's not worth signing as a full-time player at any of those positions. Lyle Overbay is a 1B without power. Again, he's a nice average ballplayer. He would help us, but Milwaukee isn't trading him so it's a moot point. Eddie Guadado is a very nice relief pitcher. He's been solid at it for longer than Dustin Hermanson. If Seattle would take Damaso Marte for him straight up, I'd do it in a second. But he's said to have a bum shoulder and he has a $7 million option for next year. That's way too pricey for the Sox. Danys Baez has 7 blown saves this year. In 2003 he had 10. I wouldn't want him if they gave him to us, which TB won't do. Manny Ramirez is a great hitter. But he's a malcontent, a terrible fielder, and he has a contract that's $19 million/year for the next 3 years. You think JR would pay that? Would Manny be happy as a DH? Let him go to the Mets. Who am I missing? None of these guys is worth moving Brandon McCarthy for. McCarthy is a very solid pitcher. Look at Oakland. They have retooled with young arms like Brandon McCarthy. These guys win, but cost them nothing. Do you know how valuable that is? I think McCarthy just got rushed, based on his spring training performance, and it messed him up a bit. Remember, hadn't he only pitched a bit in AA before being raced to the big leagues? Now that he's been allowed to settle down, he has. It may be that he needs an offseason to develop a cutter to get better movement on his fastball, and to gain confidence in his changeup. With those pitches, and his ability to throw strikes, the kid could be a 15-game winner next year, or in 2 years. We are going to need 2 new starters pretty soon to replace Contreras and El Duque. McCarthy should be one of them. And in the meantime, I think McCarthy would be better than Jenks pitching out of the pen in this year's postseason. So don't think he can't help us this year. He can. *************** I'm not against making a trade. I'm just against giving up a critical piece of our future for a very marginal gain in the present. P.S. I'd be willing to give up any other player or players on our AAA club, but not McCarthy.

With most of the big names not likely to get moved -- AJ Burnett, Jason Schmidt, and Billy Wagner -- I don't think there is anyone on the market worth trading Brandon McCarthy for. Not Aubrey Huff, Eddie Guardado, etc., etc., and definitely not Danys "Blown Save" Baez. One of the posts on here noted that McCarthy has settled down at AAA, with a 1.80 ERA over his last 3 games, including an 8-inning shut out last time out. I think McCarthy could still help us as a last arm in the bullpen if they would let him finish his AAA season and bring him up as a September call up. And I don't want to mortgage the future of the franchise for a mediocre player that isn't go to be the key to the future of this team like Brandon McCarthy could be. Where would we be this year if we'd dumped Jon Garland for the mediocre 1B of the Angels? We'd be about even with the Twins, and likely to fade down the stretch like we did each of the last 3 years. We need to keep core, impact, young ballplayers. As someone said, the best chance to win it all is to be in the postseason every year, not just one out of every 5 years. Sure, we've got an excellent chance this year, and I'm willing to part with non-essential pieces. But I'm going to be sick if we pull another Kip Wells/Josh Fogg type overpayment deal on someone who never contributed a lick to our team. KEEP MCCARTHY (and Politte, Cotts, Sweeney, Young, and Jenks).

It looks as if, at the moment, there are going to be NO SIGNIFICANT TRADES before Sunday's deadline. 1. Florida informed Boston that Arroyo and Sanchez won't get AJ Burnett. Since they haven't accepted whatever the Sox may have offered already... 2. Lyle Overbay is definitely not on the market. 3. Jason Schmidt? No way. Ditto for Omar Vizquel. 4. Eddie Guardado? Jamie Moyer? Nothing going on. 5. Billy Wagner. f**edaboudit. 6. Aubrey Huff? Danys Baez? Too pricey. 7. Fill in the rest. Does that mean there really won't be any trades? I DOUBT IT. A very interesting thing may happen between now and Sunday. The selling teams that have been asking the moon may finally decide to sell, and sellers market may turn a bit into a buyer's market, or at least balance out. I expect tomorrow to remain quiet, but Saturday may be the day. I just hope that KW doesn't do anything stupid in the hopes of doing something "great." I'll be more than happy if after Sunday at 4 pm we still have BMac, Young, Jenks, Politte, Cotts, Sweeney, Fields, etc. I wouldn't oppose injecting some new energy through another pitcher and a lefty bat, but if it doesn't happen, I think these Sox will just figure out how to play better and beat all comers. GO SOX!

Well, I guess some of Cliff's luster came off today, but I still wouldn't trade him this year.

I'm glad to see there are still no votes for Danys "Blown Save" Baez.

Please don't trade for Danys "Blown Save" Baez. I wouldn't give up anyone to get that guy. 6 blown saves so far this year, on his way to topping his 10 blown saves in 2003. Do you know where we would be right now if our bullpen had blown 6 more games?? We'd be in the thick of a race for the AL Central, and if we lost that, we'd be hard pressed to win the Wild Card against the resurgent A's. The more I hear the trade options, the more I want us to stand pat and do nothing. Deals that once might have been fair, seem ever more tilted against us as the deadline draws close. I'd be ready to face the Yankees or BoSox with what we, and they, have. I think the bigger threats are the A's and Angels, but I'm willing to go against them too if we rest Frank until September.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 27, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) Wow you are in love with this guy, but it's a little much to compare him to Mariano Rivera, one guy is a closer, the other is a 7th inning guy. Big difference. Politte is the 8th inning guy, not usually the 7th inning guy. And it's my personal opinion, though I haven't done the research, that more games are lost to an 8th inning rally by the opponent than a 9th inning one, so I never underestimate the value of the set up guys. Moreover, they often have to come in mid-inning and fix a mess, and closers usually get to start innings. So of course Cliff Politte is not as good as the best relief pitcher ever (Rivera), but he's been golden for us this year. And if Hermanson couldn't go, I wouldn't hesitate to close with Politte. 32 base runners in 42 innings. No one touches him. In the postseason, I expect he will appear in EVERY close game.

My point is that we shouldn't be falling all over ourselves drooling over a 1B who doesn't have great power numbers. Sure Overbay is a solid ballplayer and he's a left handed bat. But he's not GREAT.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jul 27, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) Last time I checked his record, KW has made some very good moves and some very bad moves over his tenure. He inherited a division winning team in 2000 and has yet to return them to the playoffs. I like Kenny, but I've yet to see him turn water into wine or walk on water. Why don't you put down the Kool Aid and have a malt liquor instead. If Politte is dealt for ANYONE, it would be worse than Kip Wells and Josh Fogg for .... (who was the stiff we got for those guys?) 20 Mariano Rivera NYY 39 0 42.1 22 10 4 11 48 4 2 0 25 0.85 31 Cliff Politte CWS 41 0 41.2 21 7 7 11 40 6 0 11 1 1.51 Cliff's ERA is slightly higher, but he's given up 1 less hit and the same number of walks in 2/3 less of an inning and 1 fewer game. Plus he's 6-0 for us. He's given up 2 HRs to Rivera's 1. If Politte is dealt and then we get Danys "Blown Save" Baez in his place, the Sox can kiss their postseason hopes goodbye. I guarantee we'll lose a game late that Politte would have handled with his tremendous play this year.

If Ross Gload's 2004 numbers were projected over a season, he would be every bit as good as Lyle Overbay. Gload 2004: 2004 CWS 110 234 28 75 16 0 7 44 20 37 0 3 .321 -- .479 .854 Overbay 2004: 2004 Mil 159 579 83 174 53 1 16 87 81 128 2 1 .301 -- .478 .863 So all of you who want to surrender half our farm system for Mr. Overbay, please reconsider. Sure, Overbay has to be rated higher because he's played more, but the difference is not enough in my mind to want to give up anything right now for Overbay.

This morning on Mike & Mike, Jayson Stark said Cliff Politte, not Damaso Marte, was now part of the package for AJ Burnett. I hope that is not true. It certainly makes me concerned. Cliff Politte has pitched as well this year as Mariano Rivera. Look it up. How many 1-run victories for us this year would have been turned into defeats if we didn't have Cliff Politte. He has been one of the best relievers in baseball this year. Without him, the Sox bullpen, which is a tremendous strength of the team, would turn to mush. I wouldn't trade Cliff Politte heads up for AJ Burnett. PLEASE, KW, STEP AWAY FROM THE PHONE. DON'T BE SO STUPID AS TO TRADE CLIFF POLITTE. (P.S. I expect this rumor is part of some other threads on Jayson Stark, but I felt it deserved its own headline.)

QUOTE(Lefty Of Love @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:31 PM) I think Billy Wagner would make the best pickup at the deadline, making our bullpen ridiculously deep. Hermanson's health has to be a huge concern; the guy gets it done when he can play, but we all know he has missed closing situations in more than a few games now. Wagner might even push Hermanson down the chart into setup, which would give Ozzie ridiculous flexibility in setup: imagine being able to choose from Politte, Jenks, or Hermanson on any given night to set up (assuming Marte would either be gone or pushed out of setup into a left-handed specialist role or something). Philly would probably want a SP, something we could swing, giving them Jose Contreras. Given our large lead in the Central going w/Bmac to take JC's place wouldn't be all that bad. Besides, JC is the odd man out of the rotation come the playoffs anyway. What do you guys think we would have to give Philly for Wagner? I'm all for Wagner, though he's likely unattainable. Yesterday when it seemed like Burnett/Lowell for BMac/Marte was possible, I suggested keeping Lowell and shipping Contreras, Crede, and Vizcaino to Philly for Wagner. But it's a pipe dream and would blow up when Burnett and Wagner would likely walk after the season.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:41 PM) No, but he's a good pitcher. I'm not sure how many inherited runners he's let score but I assume he hasn't had a ton of chances with them since he's their closer, he's got a very good era and is a HUGE upgrade over Viz. If you don't think this is true well I don't know what to tell you then. Let's not debate whether he's better than Viz. That's not the point. Why would we give up players to get him? To put him in the wrong role. If TB wanted Viz for Baez, fine. I'd use Baez the same way we use Viz. He's behind Hermanson, Politte, and Cotts. Maybe he's as reliable as Marte. I don't want to pay to get him.