VAfan

QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 02:58 AM) this is your third thread man cool it down, but i agree he will stop them, and hopefully we can score some runs off their pitcher Hey, just thought I'd post something other than: "Sox need to trade for Schmidt and Vizquel." But in some ways it all comes back to my argument for a 4th starter for the playoffs. We've seen in the last two days that 2 of our 3 aces can be beat. But if we have 4 aces, I like our chances a lot better.

The Sox need a big lift tomorrow from Freddy Garcia. 3-6 is bad enough against those guys, but at least it would allow us to finish the first half 30 games over .500 and at least a 10 game lead over Minnesota.

Sox need a break (from Oakland - we better hope Minny or Cleveland play well enough to keep Oakland out of the Wild Card). We also need an infusion of new blood. 1. Ross Gload. I'd like to see him start at 1B and hit cleanup the first game back (unless we're facing a lefty), and at least twice a week. I also agree that Dye and Konerko should switch places in the order until Konerko revives his stroke. 2. El Duque and Damaso Marte for Jenks and Walker. It was nice to get a peek at Jenks, but he needs to go back down. 3. Make a trade for a 4th starter who we can count on in October, and to upgrade our OBP at SS (and add another lefty bat). Schmidt/Vizquel is still a good deal for the Sox. 4. Add September call-ups to keep our veterans fresh. Anderson, BMac, and Jenks should all return.

The Sox should stop playing games with Ross Gload. I certainly hope he is up the game after the All-Star Break. I think our offense has degenerated into swinging for the fences a bit, and getting Konerko out of the middle of the lineup at least 2 days a week for a lefty bat that can play 1B should help us immensely. Paulie needs a rest. Badly. And we need more lefties. I wouldn't hesitate to hit Gload 4th and play him a lot. Who would I send down? I think Timo Perez is the one that should go because Willie Harris is a much better pinch runner and can play the infield. But I might send Harris for now because he still has options. Then I'd try to include Perez in a trade and bring Harris back.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 10, 2005 -> 02:24 AM) After today, I would do anything to NOT have to play Ozuna. Not at 3B at least! He certainly looked overmatched at 3B, didn't he? My belief is he is better at SS because the ball isn't on him as quickly and you don't have to play the same kind of tricky hops.

I caught the Giants game Friday night. Jason Schmidt v. Mark Mulder in SF. My scouting report is that Schmidt is not hurt or damaged goods. They didn't show pitch speeds, but the announcers said he was at 95 by the second inning, and kept to that velocity when he needed it through the 7th, when he was lifted for a pinch hitter. He also had a nice curve ball that he might have used more often. Larry Walker turned on a first inning fastball and put it WAY out for a quick 2-0 St. Louis lead. Sanders also hit a HR on a pretty good sinker. Schmidt walked a bunch of guys, but it was largely to avoid giving Pujols too much to hit. He worked out of a couple of jams with 3 on and 2 on when he had to. The Giants offense generated nothing, so Schmidt lost 3-0. But if the Sox had interest in him before, I doubt it has been dispelled. He seems like he will only get better the farther behind him his DL stint becomes. Certainly he's right now better than Jose Contreras.

Beck72, you are making all the arguments I made in favor of Uribe for Vizquel in both of the prior trade threads. The biggest one for me is his .400 OBP against right handed pitching. Uribe's was about .240 not that long ago. That's a lot of extra outs. I think the best counterargument is the fade-at-the-end-of-the-season argument. Uribe did have a great September last year. And certainly he has more power potential than Vizquel. The comeback to this is that Vizquel can be saved by playing Ozuna at SS against lefties. That will save Vizquel a month of playing time right there. For the same reason, we need Ross Gload back to give Konerko time off. He's down in the .230s again and he's hurting the team offensively. So my overall feeling is the Schmidt-Vizquel for Contreras-Uribe and a couple prospects is still the Sox' best trade bet. Sure, we get older at SS, but we get another lefty (with Gload back we could actually field 6 lefties) who balances better with Ozuna than Uribe does, and we pick up 2 guys with WS experience (though neither has won, so they still have the hunger).

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 07:48 PM) For those that think chemistry is overrated--I really disagree. There are teams that have won that don't like each other, no doubt, however there are also teams like this current one who like each other so much that they play harder then they ever have before. These guys will run through walls for each other and the manager and the general manager. It's something special the sox have going on the field and off the field. If the Sox are going to make the trade it'll be for someone that fits in. The good thing is that Dustin and AJ know what Schmidt's personality is like and ditto with Ozzie and Burnett. If and when the Sox make a trade it'll be for a good character guy, I can guarantee that. Does anyone who brings up "chemistry" think that either Schmidt or Vizquel would in any way undermine the chemistry of this club? Schmidt was a gamer who helped SF get to the World Series, as was Omar when he was in Cleveland. Neither guy won it all, so they are still hungry. We aren't talking volatile guys like Kevin Brown, Kenny Rogers, or Jose Guillen. They won't be a problem. I know Schmidt has said he doesn't want to leave SF, but I can't believe he wouldn't do his best to help us win if he came aboard. The only issue is whether Schmidt's arm troubles are going to keep him from pitching well in October.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 04:05 PM) See: Jon Rauch, and MANY other Sox prospects who were traded. Matt Guerrier...Etc. Let's see, Jon Rauch is still toiling in the minors for the Nats (or is he hurt), and Matt Guerrier was traded right before the season started for Damaso Marte if I recall correctly. I think KW actually gives more than many teams do in July trades, but it makes other teams willing to deal with him. And this year, I think that could be a real plus. I like our chances of picking up a quality starter who can help us in the playoffs.

I'm not worried about the division or making the playoffs, and I think the team is focused enough that we're going to crack 100 wins for the first time in Sox history. But all of that is just a nice lead in to the real question. Will this 2005 Sox team win the first postseason series since 1917? Can it go all the way? On that point, I'd like to see KW add a tweak or two to help us out.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) Miami????? Taking Contreras????? I wouldn't have thought so either, until I read the article suggesting they would turn around and trade for Jason Schmidt once Burnett was gone. Of course that is likely even more far-fetched.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 03:55 PM) While I'm not completely sold on the sox getting Jason Schmidt, some deal for Vizquel could really complete the sox [maybe with Scott Eyre also coming to the sox]. Along with some pitching help, Omar's versatility and approach to hitting, ala what Pods and Iguchi have done, would make the sox tough to beat in a short series. Most people would agree Uribe struggles against very good pitching. I don't have the exact matchups. But some numbers to throw out there against some teams the sox might face in the playoffs: Career Uribe vs Bos: .205/.250/.341 vs LAA: .171/.186/.244 vs Minn .257/.276/.419 Vizquel vs Bos: .237/.270/.316 vs LAA: .343/.416/.455 vs Minn .342/.387/.459 Just some food for thought What I also like about Vizquel is he's best against right handed pitching on a team that could use another left handed bat. And since Ozuna is best against lefties, he makes a natural fit with Vizquel and makes it easy for Ozzie to start him at SS for another 20-25 games (or more) per year. Another thing that could make Vizquel valuable would be if Pods had to go on the DL for any reason. Who would lead off? Uribe's OBP makes him the worst candidate. I suppose Iguchi could fill the role, with Rowand sliding into #2. (Ozuna has been our backup lead off hitter, but when he's subbing for Uribe. Now, if Pods sits, it is Everett out there.) And Vizquel can fill the #2 hole better than Harris when Willie is giving Iguchi a breather. Schmidt/Vizquel for Contreras/Uribe and a combo of 2-3 prospects still makes the most trade sense for the Sox (and the Giants).

Cooper has been fabulous. Look at Neil Cotts and Cliff Politte, for example. But some of the credit also goes to the pitchers. Mark Buehrle, for setting an example for Jon Garland to follow, and to Jon Garland for waking up and following his example. And some of the credit must also go to AJ Pierzynski, who calls for pitches inside, and his tough, no nonsense style.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 11:21 PM) Just like they should have in 2002...they had plenty of prospects to trade...I'm sure someone would happily have given them a veteran starting pitcher for this rookie named Francisco Rodriguez sometime in July that year. That's an absurd comment. Have you seen me advocating trading any impact minor leaguers for a much more reliable 4th starter? A lot of guys put BMac's name in the hopper, or even Bobby Jenks. You don't see me doing that. (I did propose BMac at one point, but quickly retracted.) The only "name" prospect I've proposed giving up is Brian Anderson and that's because Jermaine Dye has right field locked up this year and next.

QUOTE(Chisoxmatt @ Jul 8, 2005 -> 03:23 AM) This is a terrible thread.. TERRIBLE. We havent made the playoffs yet. We havent clinched the division... C'mon, don't you get the point either? Look at our club. If we make the postseason, what do we need to get to and win the World Series? It should be obvious. A reliable 4th starter ought to be priority #1. The best one we can get (depending on the price). This would be my current priority list: 1. Jason Schmidt (in part b/c I'd like to swap SS too). 2. AJ Burnett (if Miami will take Contreras as part of deal). 3. Jamie Moyer 4. Roger Clemens (would be #1, but it's not going to happen).

If the Marlins would take Contreras as part of the deal for Burnett, then I'm all for making the move, because, whatever shortcomings Burnett has as a pitcher (good for 6 innings, only pitched 200 innings once, etc.), they are less than Contreras's shortcomings, and he would have a very significant edge over any likely pitching opponent in the playoffs. Then, if we can't sign Burnett in the offseason, we'll at least have the $8 million we would have paid Jose to use to sign a 4th starter. But if the deal is to surrender 3 top prospects to rent Burnett for 3 months, then I think the price could be too high depending on the names of the prospects.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 10:43 PM) I think some of you really need to read this.... IT'S NOT 2003. Schmidt is one of the worst pitchers in the NL in a pitchers park this year. HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU EXPECT HIM TO COME TO THE CELL AND DO BETTER. I realize his name is all shiny and stuff BUT HE'S NO LONGER AN ACE. EVEN IF WE GOT HIM (WHICH WOULD BE IN NO WAY WORTH ANYTHING OF QUALITY) HE WOULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAY OFF ROSTER BECAUSE HE'S JUST NOT THAT GOOD! Ok...Rant over.... Hey, in case you missed it, Schmidt had a pretty good year last year too. 18-7, 225 innings, 165 hits, 3.2 ERA. Then he started the year with a 2-1 record and 3.41 ERA in April. In May he went on the DL after his second start and hasn't fully returned to form since that stint, though he did post back-to-back 8 inning outings where he surrended no runs. Give me that over "Jose the head case" or "bad shoulder El Duque" every time.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 10:35 PM) Assuming SI.com's numbers are right...the mighty Paul Byrd is 11 and 10 Career in the postseason, with an ERA of 5.20. link To straighten out the record, what I said is: 1. El Duque can't be counted on to be healthy in October, 2. He hasn't pitched well in the postseason for some time, and since he last pitched well he has developed recurring shoulder problems, 3. That Contreras may pitch great, but he may also walk 7 batters and throw 3 wild pitches, that he's been eaten alive by Boston and LA, our two most likely postseason opponents, and his postseason record is 0-2 with a higher ERA than Paul Byrd's 5.20. (Heck, if I were an Angels fan, I'd be pushing to improve the starting pitching too.)

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 09:34 PM) 4. Griffey Jr. (For Rowand? Thats the dumbest trade rumor I have heard in the history of life) Nobody wants Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones on our team. Quit living in the past people. That is hilarious. I confess to floating Mr. Potato Chip Cracky Bones at one point, but it wasn't to replace Rowand, it was to consider replacing Dye when he was below the Mendoza line and Everett hadn't shown he could play the field. Needless to say I'm not suggesting that any more.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 08:53 PM) Vizquel certainly is hitting well vs RHP, a Sox weakness. In 210 AB's, he's hitting .329/.390/.410. Exactly. And Ozuna is hitting about the same against lefties. They would make a perfect pairing at SS, and Ozuna could still spell Crede at 3B.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 08:01 PM) Why would you want to be stuck with 2 more years on Omar's contract? Vizquel is showing no signs of slowing down. And paired with Ozuna, who could start against most lefties, it would easily stretch out Vizquel's value for the 3 years on his deal. This is a logical move if the Giants will take Contreras and Uribe as cornerstone pieces to the deal, and don't demand BMac (or Jenks).

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 10:14 PM) As you said, those starts from Schmidt were a long time ago. Considering how much it would supposedly cost to get him here, we'd be better off with what we have. Plus, the Giants have said a few times that Schmidt won't be traded. I'm not buying SF's and the Sox' denials about Jason. This deal still makes the most sense for both teams, including the swap of shortstops. (And isn't it just the kind of deal KW would pull? After all, hasn't he added a middle infielder and starter at the trade deadline just about every year?)

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 09:29 PM) I highly disagree. Loaiza is pitching in a pitcher's ballpark in the NL. Give him 1 more run that would be scored on him in the AL and he has a worse ERA than Contreras. Minus the last 3 of the last 4 starts, Contreras has a way better ERA than Loaiza. Since Loiaza's not available, it's a side point not worth quibbling over. But you don't see Loiaza walking 7 guys in one game with 3 wild pitches to boot.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2005 -> 09:38 PM) I strongly disagree with your statement that Contreras/El Duque do not match up well with other teams 4th starters. 1. Contreras will give you good starts probably about 60% of the time, if not more. Against another team's 4th starter...it is insanity to expect better. 4th starter games come down to how well each person pitches that day and how your offense responds. 2. Let's take a quick look at this quote. Why exactly do you think that you can give David Wells another level in the playoffs, but you cannot give another level to the guy on our staff with 33 career postseason starts and a 16-9 record...El Duque? I think El Duque will be our 4th starter when playoff time comes personally...if he's healthy. If he is...I'll take his experience in big games over just about anyone. Let me be very clear on this...THE ONLY REASON WE NEED ANOTHER STARTING PITCHER IS THAT EL DUQUE SIMPLY CANNOT FINISH THE SEASON. If that is the case, we need another starter. If he can...he is as good as we will find, as is Contreras. El Duque's days of postseason dominance are history. In 2004, he started 1 game against Boston, pitched 5 innings, gave up 3 runs and 5 walks for a 5.40 ERA. In 2002, he only pitched out of the bullpen, but was credited with a loss in his 2 games. In 2001, he was 1-1, beating Oakland in the ALDS, but getting rocked by Seattle in the ALCS. He pitched well against Arizona in the WS but got no decision. Most of this was before he developed arm problems. Contreras's 2 postseason series ended with his ERA at 5.79 and 5.68 and his record 0-2. He walked 7 guys in 11 innings. All games were in relief. This is Jason Schmidt's postseason line from 2002-03. (Granted he's been hurt since too.) 4 Postseason Ser 2-2 5 5 3.06 3-1 0 1 1 32.3 26 11 9 32 I'd rather take my chances with Schmidt.

I agree with most of this (though I'd happily have Loiaza back for Contreras). As I've said repeatedly, I think some version of Contreras-Uribe for Schmidt-Vizquel is still the best move the Sox could make at the trade deadline. ****************** Time and room for Sox to see more of that Ken-do attitude Thursday, July 7, 2005 For all its offense, Boston may not have an ace or a closer, what with Curt Schilling and Keith Foulke in limbo. The New York Yankees have turned soft — since when does owner George Steinbrenner congratulate his third-place team after a birthday victory? The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim have three more words in their name than quality starters. Does Minnesota still have a team? If ever there were a time for White Sox general manager Ken Williams to put the pedal to the metal and acquire the one or two pieces it takes to complete the championship puzzle, then the 24 days that remain before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline are it. Because the South Side may never have a better chance to witness a World Series for the first time in 46 years than the present. "What may be able to change minds in this city is for us to win it all," said Williams, who knows blood when he smells it. "That's what I care about. I've been in this city for 20 years, so I know what it's all about. For our fans and for us, the big picture is what we look at." As Chet Coppock reported on Sporting News Radio last Sunday, a Sox investor indicated the team was on the verge of a deal with San Francisco that would send pitcher Jason Schmidt to the South Side, a report another team executive would not deny. If healthy — and that's a big if — Schmidt would join Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland and Freddy Garcia in the deepest rotation in the big leagues. "I want a top-of-line starter," K-Will said. "You know me better than to want anything less than that." Indications are that Schmidt or any other newly acquired fourth starter would also pitch out of the bullpen in the postseason. (Remember what starter-turned-reliever Josh Beckett did for Florida against the Cubs in Game 7 of the NLCS two years ago? Then in the World Series, Beckett started Game 6 and threw a two-hit shutout against the Yankees as the Marlins clinched the title.) The deal could be expanded to include shortstop Omar Vizquel, who, like Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, is a Venezuela native. Vizquel wasn't yet available, according to a team source, but that could change if and when the fourth-place Giants decide to call it a season before the end of the month. "I prefer to fly stealth," was all Williams would say Wednesday about the trade speculation. The Sox had Vizquel at the top of their wish list last winter, only to have the Giants step in with a better offer. Shortstop Juan Uribe has been a disappointment thus far, while Omar the Playmaker remains as consistent as ever at 38. Indeed, Sox Nation should have complete faith in whatever Williams does in the next three weeks, because the guy has turned chopped steak into filet mignon for two years now. Start with free-agent pitcher Shingo Takatsu, who was signed for a mere $1 million. All he did was save 19 games. After a couple of down months this season, Takatsu appears to have his frisbee back in order again. Garcia was acquired in return for catcher Miguel Olivo and outfielder Jeremy Reed, a pair of prospects. Reed turned out to be a keeper, but Garcia would be the staff ace on almost any other team except this one. Esteban Loaiza for Jose Contreras? Call it no worse than a wash. Last offseason it was more of the same. Free agent A.J. Pierzynski was signed for $2.25 million. What? Two million bucks? For a catcher who is on pace to hit 20-plus homers and calls one of the best games around? Free agent Tadahito Iguchi arrived as a virtual unknown. Now Iguchi rates one of the best second baseman in the AL, a $2.3 million bargain. Yet another free-agent steal, pitcher Dustin Hermanson, has converted 21 of 22 save opportunities at last check. Not bad for $2 million, huh? Then there's outfielder Jermaine Dye, whose $4 million salary is one-third that of Magglio Ordonez, the guy he replaced. The critics who screamed that Ordonez should be re-signed at all costs have been very quiet lately. The only significant move that can be even remotely questioned is the one that sent slugger Carlos Lee to Milwaukee in return for outfielder Scott Podsednik and pitcher Luis Vizcaino. Yet, as dominant as Lee has been for the Brewers, Podsednik has been hell on wheels, a symbol of the speed-and-defense makeover that took place last winter. Where would the Sox be without Sco-Po to wreak havoc at the top of the order? That K-Will has pulled this off on a $75 million payroll tells me he's misplaced as a baseball general manager. The guy should be in charge of the national budget. Yet for all his success, Williams finds himself in a prickly situation at the moment. His team has a fairly comfortable 10½-game lead in the AL Central, not to mention the best record in the bigs. But while Williams keeps one eye on the next pitch, he has to focus the other on the postseason. Problem is, as much as Williams wants to tweak the roster, he has to be careful not to disrupt team chemistry, which ranks on the short list of reasons for team success this season. For instance, the Sox could make a pitch for Cincinnati center fielder Ken Griffey Jr., who at last check was on a pace for 30 home runs and 100-plus RBI and appears to be over his injury problems. Griffey is a left-handed swinger and has loads of postseason experience, both of which the Sox lack. But if you acquire Griffey, what do you tell Aaron Rowand, a guy who has run through the wall for you the last three seasons? Well, it's like this, Aaron: We really do appreciate all you've done for us, but we have a chance to acquire a future Hall of Famer who can make us better. So why don't you grab some bench for a while? "We have to be careful here, but nothing will change the fact that we've set our sights on the playoffs," K-Will said. "If we're fortunate enough to get there, then we'll focus on even greater things." It's time for Ken Williams to work some more of his magic.