VAfan

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:31 PM) 30 saves and only 3 blown saves in 2004. This guy is insurance. Politte doesn't like closing, Marte can't close, Cotts no, Shingo bye bye, and Luis well is Luis...This move is to get an experienced closer who has had success doing so. He's not brought in here to close. He's brought in here to be the backup plan to Hermanson if his back troubles continue. If Wagner and Guardado aren't an option then Baez is the next best w/ value left over to acquire Burnett or Huff or whatever... I'd hate to see Baez. I don't think he has the temperment to close under real pressure. Blown saves are the worst in a relief pitcher. Remember Billy Koch? If Baez had blown 6 saves for us this year, he'd be the 6th guy in the pen. I don't care what his "stuff" is.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:29 PM) Well Baez is a fulltime closer so he's going to have more then others. If he were traded here he wouldn't close. He's a definite upgrade over Viz, I'd love to have Baez. So you think blown saves by your closer are okay?? Stay away from Danys Baez. I used to love it when he came into the ballgame against us.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:19 PM) How about Overbay for Anderson/Sweeney and Tracy!?!?!?!? Wow is that overpaying. First basemen who can't hit for power are not very valuable in my book. Sure Overbay would be a slight upgrade this year, and is a lot cheaper than Konerko and is a lefty. But I wouldn't swap the farm for him. If Ross Gload's 2004 numbers were projected over a season, he would be every bit as good as Lyle Overbay. Gload 2004: 2004 CWS 110 234 28 75 16 0 7 44 20 37 0 3 .321 -- .479 .854 Overbay 2004: 2004 Mil 159 579 83 174 53 1 16 87 81 128 2 1 .301 -- .478 .863

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:14 PM) No, the best deal would be BMac/Contreras & Marte for Schmidt and Vizquel. I'd give up Anderson before I'd give up McCarthy. Dye is set for RF next year, and Rowand/Pods aren't moving either. But McCarthy might move into the starting rotation next year if we deal Contreras or if anyone is hurt. I don't think McCarthy will win like McDowell did next year, but I don't think Ozzie was off his rocker comparing him to Black Jack in spring training. And McCarthy already walks fewer guys than McDowell did, and strikes out just as many.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:05 PM) What's your beef with Baez?? I'd love to have the guy. I know for a fact Kenny's not going to make a deal just to make a deal. Blown saves. 6 this year already, on his way to his high of 10 in 2003. The Sox bullpen in this department is Marte 3 Cotts 2 Hermanson 1 Politte 0 Vizcaino 3 Takatsu 1 Jenks NA Walker 1 Baez has as many as our two shakiest bullpen guys - Marte and Vizcaino - combined.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 26, 2005 -> 11:01 PM) It was on Sportscenter. Jayson Stark was doing a thing on who he thinks what each team in contention should target. No way in hell are we giving up Politte or Cotts. Obviously, they don't do their homework. By the way, I couldn't respond to your post on the AJ Burnett thread that is now locked. I wasn't saying Contreras, Marte AND BMac, I was substituting Contreras for BMac if they want to compete this year. You could then spice that up with less valuable B-list prospects.

A lot of the deals mentioned in the rumor mills scare me more than excite me. Danys Baez? Please NO. At any price. AJ Burnett as a 2-month rental for BMac and Marte? Marginal. Aubrey Huff? Ok, depending on price. ********* The best deal would still be Schmidt/Vizquel for Contreras, Uribe, and Anderson. AJ Burnett would be okay if he'd sign a 3-year contract. Billy Wagner would be a big plus, but he's also a likely rental, so I wouldn't overpay. BE CAREFUL KENNY. DON'T MAKE A SPLASH JUST TO PROVE YOU ARE WORKING. Make the RIGHT DEAL(s) or don't make one at all.

Jayson Stark has us trying to bid for Baez and Huff, and the names on our side were Marte, Politte, Cotts. AACK. No trade of Politte or Cotts under any circumstances, please. I'd take Huff, but Baez isn't any better than Jose Vizcaino. He's blown 6 saves so far this year, and he blew 10 and lost 9 games in 2003 for Cleveland. NO THANKS. I don't want him.

Split the DH ABs between Everett and Konerko, and use Gload several days a week at 1B. We don't need an extra DH.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:00 PM) next time you give stats, how bout letting everyone know what they actually mean instead of just giving us numbers You ought to be able to read that without guidance. All the stat lines are the same. In this case the first number is the number of years, but everything else is normal. As for the comment about making Lowell as a RH DH, I think this would be stupid. Everett is actually hitting much better from the right side this year. If Lowell is part of any deal, we need to trade him or Crede to the Phillies as part of a package for Billy Wagner. But all of this appears like a total long shot.

If the Marlins want a starter, why don't they accept Jose Contreras from the Sox as the core of a deal? He's better than Bronson Arroyo right now, he's Cuban, and he could do very well for them down the stretch. If they demand Marte as part of the deal, I could live with that too, though we would than have to try to find a lefty reliever. KENNY, DON'T BLINK. Contreras + Marte is much more than Boston is going to offer, no matter how much Peter Gammons waxes on about Anibel Sanchez, who is only a AA pitcher.

The Burnett speculation thread seems to be filled with 99% speculation still, but let's assume for a moment we're getting AJ and Lowell soon for the cost of BMac and Marte. What should the Sox do then? 1. Lowell v. Crede. I don't buy the theory that you keep both on the team so that Lowell can replace Konerko next year. Lowell is a 3B. If he hits to his career averages, he is clearly a better 3B than Crede. Here's Lowell's average year: 5.72 162 593 80 162 41 0 24 98 58 89 3 1 .273 .340 .466 .806 Here's Crede's: 2.86 162 553 70 141 29 1 23 81 33 89 1 2 .255 .304 .435 .739 Lowell is 31, while Crede is 27, so the trends should move together, but if the Marlins are picking up 1/3 of Lowell's contract over the next 2-1/2 years, he should be a fine bridge to Fields. That means if we're taking on Lowell, then KW must already have another trade in mind involving Joe Crede. The problem is, who would he help? Cleveland, Minnesota, Seattle, the Nats, and Philadelphia. Only the last team is a possible trade partner. 2. Whither Contreras? With Burnett on the team, are we really going to pay Jose Contreras close to $8 million to become a long reliever? Do we trust his wildness and inability to prevent steals enough to use him as an alternative closer? Must we keep him around to protect against El Duque going down again? Does this depend on re-signing Burnett? I think the answer is to trade Contreras to a contender that needs a starting pitcher. Again, the logical choice would be Philadelphia. 3. Will Philly accept Contreras, Crede, and Vizcaino for Billy Wagner? This would be the logical repercussion of a Sox trade for Burnett and Lowell. To try to add Billy Wagner in a huge push to win it all this year. Philly might go for it if they get 3 major league players in the deal. Indeed, they might be crazy not to go for it. The result would be that we would have surrendered BMac to get: Burnett for Contreras Wagner for Marte and Vizcaino Lowell for Crede We could then bring up Bajenaru for the last spot in the pen. 4. Will those additions be enough? I would consider one other move. Trying to pry Omar Vizquel from SF for Juan Uribe and prospects. Of course, all of this would be too good to be true, especially if JR spent the money to re-sign both Burnett and Wagner for the next couple of years. A possible lineup that is solid 1-9: Pods LF Iguchi 2B Everett DH Konerko 1B Dye RF Pierzynski C Rowand CF Lowell 3B Vizquel SS Bench: Ozuna, Harris (for speed), Gload, Widger, Perez. A possible rotation: Buehrle Garcia Garland Burnett El Duque Bullpen: Wagner, Politte, Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks, Bajenaru If you add a 90% Frank Thomas in mid-September through the postseason, this team could match up with anyone. With Lowell/Vizquel instead of Crede/Uribe we would have changed the left side of the infield, but we would have veteran presence and solid defense. Plus WS experience and a lot fewer outs. It is this last point that sells me. Without Thomas our lineup would have no superstars. But is also would have no weak links.

Did my post on this get deleted? Anyway, after tonight, the A's are now tied with the Twins for the lead in the Wild Card.

Vizquel (and Schmidt) for Uribe (and Contreras) is still the best deal for the Sox, and one SF should make if they also got Anderson, who they could bring up now. If it is just Vizquel, it is still a good deal, but it would almost certainly include Uribe because the Sox aren't going to pay a utility guy $3 million/year. Vizquel isn't an offensive savior, but he will make a lot fewer outs than Uribe and help extend innings. Plus Ozuna makes for an obvious platoon when lefties pitch.

What is Boston's offer for Burnett? Arroyo and a AA pitcher named Anibel Sanchez? I googled Anibel Sanchez, and this is the first thing that popped up: "Anibel Sanchez is getting absoulety skull f***ed in the Dominican League. Maybe Zenny can do a full preview for us? 0-3 7.82 ERA in 4 starts." If Florida wants to compete this year, why wouldn't they take Contreras and Gio instead? Heck, we could throw in Munoz or Diaz too, or Bajenaru. I think there are a lot of offers we could make that are better than Boston's offer that wouldn't require BMac. KW, DON'T BLINK FIRST. Burnett is going to be moved, and you don't have to overpay to get him.

Burnett looked good against a pathetic Giants lineup. Marte looked pretty bad again today. Nonetheless, my mind hasn't changed. If the Burnett deal is intended to flip him for Wagner, okay. That fixes the bullpen. And Contreras looked pretty good against a Boston team that is supposed to own him, while El Duque looked even better against them yesterday. I'm fine now with El ContraDuque as our 4th starter in the postseason, especially if the pen replaces Marte with Wagner. I would not be happy giving up Brandon McCarthy, however. Oakland is riding young pitchers like that right into the Wild Card.

I'm glad Ozzie did what I suggested above today. Everett in RF, Gload at 1B, Konerko as DH. Gload drove Konerko in with an RBI double, and Everett broke out of his slump with a couple singles.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 06:09 PM) Basically stay away from the Marlins. I can see them getting another D-Train in their hands with B-Mac. Exactly. BMac for Burnett straight up might be a great move for Florida. I still remember how BMac was outdueling Mark Prior in Wrigley Field in his initial game until Ozzie pulled him too soon. He needs time to settle in, and then could join Cotts, Jenks, Politte, Garland, and Buerhle as homegrown pitching stars. Backing El Duque again next year, I could see him winning 15 games within 2 years. Look at what Oakland does. They find good young pitchers and go with them. They don't buy other teams' FA outcasts. KEEP BMAC.

Before anyone just tosses away BMac on a rent-a-player, consider Jack McDowell's first 6 years, which is what we would have BMac for if we don't trade him. 1987 21 3 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 28.0 16 6 6 1 6 15 2 0 1.93 1988 22 5 10 26 26 1 0 0 0 158.7 147 85 70 12 68 84 7 11 3.97 1990 24 14 9 33 33 4 0 0 0 205.0 189 93 87 20 77 165 7 7 3.82 1991 25 17 10 35 35 15 3 0 0 253.7 212 97 96 19 82 191 4 10 3.41 1992 26 20 10 34 34 13 1 0 0 260.7 247 95 92 21 75 178 7 6 3.18 1993 27 22 10 34 34 10 4 0 0 256.7 261 104 96 20 69 158 3 8 3.37 McCarthy has 21 walks and 94 Ks in 78 innings in AAA. He's been plagued by the long ball, but that can be worked out. Who would have projected Neal Cotts to be the lights out bullpen pitcher he has become in a very short time?? Or Cliff Politte turning into one of the best 8th inning guys - if not THE BEST - after how he started out with the Sox? I'd give up the real Jack McDowell if it means the Sox are going to win the World Series this year, but AJ Burnett isn't close to being the key piece to the puzzle.

Griffey, Griffey, Griffey. As a DH replacement for Frank Thomas, he would be more expensive, though with Frank's recent run of injuries, probably not less reliable. He has no future in the outfield. His ZR number is about the worst in baseball. I just don't see how you get that deal done when KW thinks he already has the equivalent player -- Carl Everett -- in the lineup. I'm not saying Everett is the same player, just that KW thinks he is. Plus we have Ross Gload as an extra LH bat who can fill the same roles. The marginal value Griffey might add is not worth the complications of his contract.

QUOTE(Whitesox4ever @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) Urbina Okay, that makes some sense. I guess one thing KW could do is ask for negotiating time with Burnett and during that time work out a deal with Philly? Because, otherwise, could FL kill the deal if they knew Burnett was ending up with a division rival? If we're not going to flip Burnett, then I'm strongly against the deal. Contreras, Bajenaru and Munoz or Diaz is still better than anything Boston is going to offer FL.

Just a question. Who is going to close for the Phillies if they traded Wagner for Burnett straight up?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:39 PM) And Marte and McCarthy have been what? Marte has been very inconsistent and possibly injured and McCarthy has not shown a damn thing in the majors or minors this year. Yes I take that chance on a power arm who has received very little run support. Especially to make him my 3rd or 4th starter, I say HELL YES! Marte has tremendous stuff from the left side. To me it looks like his ball gets to the plate incredibly fast. His difficulty is that he is wild, and so they sit on the fastball in. Still, he's a valuable 4th arm in a pen that is going to get worked in the second half, esp. since Hermanson can't go every day. In the postseason, he could be every bit as valuable as the difference between AJ Burnett and a combination of El Duque and Jose Contreras. And McCarthy is going to be a great pitcher. The reason you can tell is his K/BB ratio at this stage of his career. Give the kid more than 3 starts before you proclaim him a failure. The ONLY way I'll be optimistic about this deal is if they flip Burnett for Wagner, and then re-sign Wagner.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:28 PM) I found this interesting tidbit on another site...so I am not sure how valid it is but it could be interesting considering the rumor that Burnett may not want to come here... Phillies interested in Burnett July 24 The Phillies would trade closer Billy Wagner , but only if he brought back an impact starting pitcher. They'd probably deal him for A.J. Burnett , but the Marlins wouldn't want Wagner. That's why the Phillies have told the Red Sox and the White Sox that they would consider dealing Wagner for Burnett should one of those teams acquire him. If the deal is BMac and Marte for Burnett, who is then immediately flipped to Philly for Wagner, then I am marginally for it. Wagner is also a FA at the end of the year, and probably can't be re-signed. But he is much more likely to have a positive impact this year in the postseason, with Hermanson unable to pitch on an every-game basis. Indeed, Wagner would likely get in every game in which we had the lead. I could be very happy with: Buehrle, Garcia, Garland, and El ContraDuque backed by: Wagner, Politte, Cotts, Jenks and Hermanson (Vizcaino only gets blowout duty) in the postseason. Frankly, if we needed a backup starter this year or next, we might use Hermanson.

QUOTE(Y2HH @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 04:11 PM) I'd take this deal, Burnett has playoff/world series experience which is a big plus, we can move Duque into the #5 slot until the playoffs...this deal opens up a ton of opportunity for us at the cost of Marte, and as good as Marte has been, I'm not sure I'm confident in putting a two pitch pitcher in a must win playoff game. Burnett sat out the Marlins run to the WS. He was on the DL.