pablo

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 01:46 PM) Braves system definitely gets a boost I think Newcomb should have slipped a bit further down due to control issues, maybe #50-60 range Acuna is way up, but I'm not willing to call him a top #50 prospect so soon. He's young for his level, but I'd put him in the 50-100 range until midseason 2017 Albies, Newcomb, Acuna would be a very enticing package to start with. Someone brought up Demeritte earlier and I would definitely have interest in him. He K's at a such a crazy rate though. I think it was north of 30% or something. But a package of Newcomb, Acuna, Fried/Gohara, Demeritte would be interesting depending on what you believe Acuna's future is. No "headliner" in the deal, but Acuna is rocketing up prospect charts.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 12:17 PM) http://sportsmockery.com/2017/01/mlb-insid...uintana-trades/ Breakdown of suggested deals Astros = Martes + Tucker + Paulino Pirates = Bell + Keller + Newman/Tucker Yankees = Mateo + Judge + Rutherford + Tate Rockies = Dahl + Rodgers Thoughts guys? I know sports mockery is usually trash, but this is from a former GM 1. Rockies 2. Astros 3. Pirates 4. Yankees I've been promoting a Yankees trade the last couple pages and Mateo/Rutherford are a nice combo to take the place of Torres or Frazier, but a better 3rd piece is needed like Sheffield/Kaprielian/Acevedo and I don't want to touch Judge quite frankly.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:37 AM) The Yankees aren't going to pay the price for Quintana right now. If the Yankees say no to that offer, the White Sox shouldn't come back and drop the price. That's not how negotiation works. If the Yankees aren't willing to deal one of those two gems then the Yankees aren't a deal matchup. We can't make them want to deal them. You can't just eliminate a trade partner because you aren't getting exactly what you want especially considering the Yankees have enough in their farm system after Torres/Frazier to get something done. You keep them around to drive up the price for other teams or possibly work out a package that does fit what you like. Maybe you talk the Yankees into wanting Q so much that they include Frazier. This is all assuming there is mutual interest which I think there is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 09:11 AM) No, the White Sox should not accept that offer. "3 elite prospects" doesn't even have to be the truth. You could easily find ways the White Sox would accept less than 3 elite prospects for an elite player - for example, we got 2 elite prospects back for Chris Sale. I've said this a couple times now, when you start a negotiation you're supposed to ask for something a team will say no to, but not something so high they won't come back if there's a deal to be done. If you're the White Sox, you ask the Yankees for "Torres, Frazier, and Rutherford" to start off. Why? Because if the Yankees say yes you want to walk away astonished about what you got. In response to that ask, if there was a deal to be made, the Yankees would respond "We're not doing all 3 of those, but Torres and Rutherford we would do". The White Sox would then respond "We need more than that, add in player x" and a few rounds would go back and forth. You might darn well not call pieces 3 and 4 elite prospects, or heck even position 2 in the deal perhaps. The Yankees leaked or stated the White Sox initial ask and said how that was too high. Of course it was too high, because they never counteroffered. What does it mean that they leaked this but didn't counteroffer? The Yankees want their fans to know they talked about the player so that they believe the Yanks tried to improve the team, but they actually aren't ready to make a move for Quintana and pay a fair price for him. So no, people should stop saying the "3 elite prospects" line, because that's a negotiation line. It's pretty clear the Yankees are not going to deal Torres and/or Frazier. These are the two gems in their system that they will almost assuredly hang on to. If they weren't in on Sale with those two guys, they won't offer him for Quintana. So yes, if Hahn asked for one or both (unlikely) for Q, then fine but the talks shouldn't have automatically stopped there when the Yankees said no. The Yankees have genuine interest in Quintana - there is no doubt about that. Their rotation after this season is a mess and needs someone like Quintana to anchor it in 2018 and beyond. Contrary to popular opinion around here, I doubt the Yankees will go out to spend on pitching this offseason because they have set their sights on Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Kershaw etc in 2018 offseason. Therefore the only way to upgrade the rotation without spending money is via trade for Q, Archer, or Gray (if a rebound happens). A depth deal involving Mateo, Rutherford, Kaprelian/Sheffield as the headliners rivals just about any offers we could get from Pirates/Astros/Braves unless one of those teams ups their offer and doesn't gut the Yankees farm system. Hahn should work hard to keep the Yankees engaged on Q because of that.

QUOTE (OklahomaBrave @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 03:29 PM) I generally assumed that they have multiple offers that would be sufficient. At this point I believe they are really just trying to hold out for additional talent and weighing The offers. Well doesn't RH know that he is torturing us by doing that! Kidding...kind of.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) It's at the point where I really don't see anything happening, or at least anything that I would be enthusiastic about. I'm more and more expecting Quintana to go to Glendale with the Sox, then get moved to the Yankees for Frazier midseason. Unless the Pirates concede on Meadows (unlikely), it seems like it would take a creative three-team trade now to really get everyone what they want. Something like the Pirates getting Bellinger for McCutchen and using him in place of Meadows for Quintana. This very well might happen - but I think it would put such a cloud over the start of the season. Q will constantly be asked about any and all trade rumors and that could get frustrating for him. The last thing the Sox need is a poor first half from Q. If Hahn really isn't getting fair offers, he should come out with a statement like "Jose will be with the White Sox for the 2017 season and we will revisit trade talks at a later time". I was of the belief that Q's value is the highest it could be this offseason (I can't see him taking his performance to another level), but the value being assigned to him by other teams isn't what we are expecting so can't rush a deal.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 11:15 AM) This post needs all the stars. And honestly, it's part of the problem with getting something done with Atlanta. If you get something done with Albies as the position player headliner, then you almost have to move Moncada off of 2B right away. Albies doesn't seem to be that far away since he hit AAA last year, and Anderson is locked in at SS for the foreseeable future. It doesn't make sense to drill Moncada at 2B to then effectively block Albies - the prize of the Q trade... Anyone know the defensive abilities of Albies vs Anderson? Could be plausible to have Albies at SS, Moncada at 2B and Anderson in CF. Anderson looked very good at SS, don't get me wrong. But just a thought.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 09:50 AM) I get that Acuna has some helium, but he has a long way to go to prove he is legit. Meadows and Bell are knocking on the mlb door right now Albies is incredibly young to make it all the way to AAA, but he did struggle during his 56 games at that level this season putting up only a .659 OPS. I feel like he will adjust and improve, and he has a really good glove, but the complete lack of power does pose some concern. I really do believe in him as a prospect, and feel he is the type of player that can help a MLB club win. I'd put Albies ceiling as an Omar Vizquel type of player, which is extremely valuable. His floor is as a glove first utility player who can handle any infield position well, pinch run, but the bat never develops beyond slap hitting. From an offensive standpoint, my first thought of his offensive ceiling comp is Jose Reyes. Great bat-to-ball skills, great speed, very good OBP. Reyes maxed out at 19 HR's in 2006 which is out of the question for Albies. But with the way the balls were flying last year, it's not out of the questions to suggest 10-12 hr pop from him (see Trea Turner last year). If he is 3/4 of prime Jose Reyes, I would be very happy with that.

For anyone else interested - here is a look at some #11-#20 prospects for the Braves. Some intriguing names that would look nice as a 3rd or 4th pieces after Albies/Newcomb. http://tomahawktake.com/2016/10/21/atlanta...spects-11-20/2/ I don't typically like Fansided articles as they can be too generic, but this is written from what seems like a scout's point of view. Dustin Peterson is a guy I've actually never heard of but raked last year in AA.

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jan 12, 2017 -> 07:24 AM) I'm not especially familiar with the Braves system, but would Albies, Newcomb, Acuna/Maitan, and Riley be too much of an ask from them? All depends on what site you look at but according to BA (before Gohara trade): Albies (#2 prospect, behind Swanson so essentially #1) Acuna/Maitan (#6,#7) Newcomb (#8 prospect) Riley (outside top 10) For a rebuilding team like the Braves that might be too much to give up depending on how they view Newcomb. I've seen him as high as #4 in their top ten in other places. I've also seen Acuna as high as #2 at Baseball Prospectus. Got to figure it's really hard for the Braves FO to trade Acuna or Maitan though because they really don't know what they have on their hands yet. They could be the next Bryant or Correa so it's really hard to value them properly with so little experience. In Maitan's case, he literally hasn't played yet in pro ball. And yes, they could just as easily be the next Beckham.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) Alex Jackson and Austin Riley are also worth some attention as position players. Travis Demeritte has also put up some big time power numbers at low levels. Agreed. Yes the Braves system is very young, but they are deep in both position and pitching prospects. But also a risky proposition to trade with especially when Q is so valuable to this rebuild.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 11:49 AM) Ronald Acuna, Sean Newcomb, Austin Riley and Cristian Pache. The pitcher can be messed around with too, Foltynewicz, Toussaint or Wentz could be subbed in for Newcomb and I wouldn't raise much of a fuss. I'd include Frazier to facilitate that deal, possibly trying to add a Victor Diaz-like flier on in the process. That's a lot for Atlanta to give up but they keep Allard, they keep Albies and they keep Maitan. Meanwhie the Sox invest in three guys that all could realistically be amongst the top 25 overall prospects next year. No sure bets, but more talent than anything the Pirates could offer. There's alot of risk in that trade considering the ages/experience which really could be said for any trade for prospects. But none of those position prospects have played past A ball yet. But I have warmed up to a Albies/Acuna/+/+ deal after digging into them a little more. Seems like it could rival any package the Pirates or Astros currently are putting forth. Albies in particular seems like the Braves are willing to deal considering they have Swanson, Maitan and Demeritte in their system.

QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:14 AM) I really think Pitt is a unique situation in that even if they get Quintana and say it doesn't work out, they can - A) Trade Cole at the 2018 deadline (maybe next offseason) for a significant haul or B) Trade Q in a two years for a significant haul again. They are basically giving themselves 1-2 chances with a nearly complete roster (assuming Cutch and Kang bounce back which isn't out of the question) to challenge the Cubs for the division or hope to get in as a WC. If it doesn't work, they can retool and try again after that. Now, if Huntington thinks like that, we have no idea... And just to add, as most here have said before, it probably comes down to if Huntington can trade Cutch in the next couple weeks. IF Cutch isn''t getting the deal the Pirates want right now, I can't imagine they'll get a good deal after this offseason. If they can't trade him, I'm thinking Meadows ends up being the headliner in the deal because there is literally no where to play him for the next two years and they should capitalize on the roster they currently have.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jan 11, 2017 -> 10:05 AM) Absolutely! There's no question a player of high value is more valuable to a smaller market team...however...the cost to acquire him is still the same--just in a different form. They can acquire him without the risk of a big contract--but in the end, they are gutting their farm system for him--and their farm system is somewhat of a smaller market team's currency. It's an exercise in logic--Q is a valuable asset, to acquire him will require you to ante up an adequate amount of resources. That price is high even when you're talking a teams' prospects because the only way the smaller market teams get high quality players is to develop them and that takes time. Gutting your system when you're a small market team says "we're this 1 particular player away from putting us over the top." I'm not sure Pittsburgh is there?? Track record--players with high value trade log: Sale--BOSTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $) Eaton--WASHINGTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $) Both those guys would be more valuable to smaller market teams because of their contracts--but look where they ended up in the end. I really think Pitt is a unique situation in that even if they get Quintana and say it doesn't work out, they can - A) Trade Cole at the 2018 deadline (maybe next offseason) for a significant haul or B) Trade Q in a two years for a significant haul again. They are basically giving themselves 1-2 chances with a nearly complete roster (assuming Cutch and Kang bounce back which isn't out of the question) to challenge the Cubs for the division or hope to get in as a WC. If it doesn't work, they can retool and try again after that. Now, if Huntington thinks like that, we have no idea...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) I am trying to figure out why this guy is rated so highly with those kind of prospect grades. I mean we are talking about a guy who is going to generate an older Juan Pierre's numbers offensively as the best position player in a deal, and that excites people? What am I missing here? I am in agreement with you that I would much much rather Meadows or Bell be included in a deal. But for sake of argument, people have been comparing Newman to Ryan Theriot. Peak Ryan Theriot was a 3 win player in 2008 followed up by 2.2 in 2009. I can't remember how Theriot was on defense, but a 3 win player is rather valuable. If Newman put up 3-3.5 wins per year, I don't think we'd look back on a Glasnow/Newman/Hayes deal as too weak if the second piece was putting up that WAR.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 10, 2017 -> 12:13 PM) Hoffman is a good prospect, but still has a ways to go to prove himself. He has bounced back from injury well though. I don't see the Rockies going from a bottom 5 pitching staff, to one that can compete with the Dodgers or Giants next season without some major additions I am really hoping they sign Trumbo as this will signal they are all in and hopefully willing to deal for Q/Jones or Robertson. Trumbo at first moves Desmonnd to the OF and then Dahl has nowhere to go but AAA. A trade of Cargo and Blackmon is unlikely (see Cutch situation - older vets, not much contract left) and also because you can't sign Trumbo, Desmond and then move your two best hitters. It would send a weird message to the fans. Rockies then swoop in and offer Dahl, Hoffman ++ for Q/Jones.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 09:31 PM) Glasnow/Keller/Newman/Hayes? The thought of not getting one of Meadows or Bell would be frustrating for me. But it's a decent package. Since its come down to the Astros and Pirates, Sox need to get one of Meadows, Bell or Tucker in a deal. And not because of the "Sox have too much pitching argument" but because those are the three best players of all the prospects mentioned between Astros or pirates and one of them at least needs acquired in a Q deal.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jan 9, 2017 -> 01:06 PM) That's the important point that people are glossing over. Newman would be either the 2nd or 3rd best hitting prospect in the Sox system (depending on how you feel about Collins). And Hayes would be either 4th or 5th (depending on how you feel about Basabe). I don't think anyone is advocating the Sox trade Q for Glasnow, Keller and additional arms. I also fail to see how Glasnow, Newman, Hayes, and let's say Diaz is a worse position player package than Martes, Tucker, Fisher and Laureano (the most reasonable hitting heavy package the Sox could expect from the Astros). Unless the Yankees or the Cubs jump in, or the Pirates budge on Meadows, the first piece is going to be a pitcher. In that scenario, it comes down to who do you like better - Tucker or Newman? And I'm taking Tucker hands down. The only reason he is/was ranked in the 50's last year is because he is younger. In a year or two we might be talking about Tucker in the same way we are talking about Meadows. Depending on who you talk to Martes and Glasgow is likely a wash

I would agree as well. With the Pirates, Astros and Yankees as possible suitors for Quintana, there are some top end positional prospects to acquire - Meadows, Bell, Tucker, Torres, Frazier, Rutherford, Mateo. I know you go with best package available to you, but I would have to think the best package includes one of these guys.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 06:33 PM) I still say the Yankees are the best fit. Even without Torres Clint Frazier, Justice Sheffield, Dustin Fowler, and Josh Rogers or say screw it and take a mega depth package from the Yankees without any of Torres, Frazier, or Sheffield if the Yankees insist on overvaluing them. It's crazy but the Yankees actually have enough depth and talent to do it. Jorge Mateo, Blake Rutherford, James Kaprielian, Jorge Andujuar, and Domingo Acevedo Depending on what comes with Martes + Tucker, I've been most intrigued by a depth package from the Yankees if they are unwillling to include Torres. Rutherford could be a top 10 prospect in a year or two and would headline any deal at that point.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:16 PM) Merkin guessed at WSD's tweet that Tucker would not be involved. Just a guess tho. Still just going in circles throwing s*** as we pass each other. Well that would be a real bummer...He's the one guy I'd really want of all Astros prospects (excluding Bregman which isn't happening).

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) No offense, but that's not even close to comparable with the Sale deal. Bregman + Tucker + Daz Cameron + a flier would be the Astro's equivalent. And just because it's been asked before. Yankees equivalent: Torres, Rutherford, Tate + flier Pirates: Meadows, Newman, Hayes, Diaz Tucker is only 19 (I think), so he has a chance in a year or two to be a top 20 prospect if he keeps progressing, who knows maybe top 10. He seems like a Meadows type player - pure hitter, good speed, maybe a bit more power than Meadows from what I've read. So yes, I'd agree, probably got ahead of myself in that it isn't quite on par with Sale as of today, but Tucker could easily be Meadows or Torres in a year or two. And he theoretically would be the second piece of this deal.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:12 PM) WSD predicts Martes, Tucker, Fisher, Stubbs, and Laureano if Houston trade were to get done. MAKE THEM PAY MORE! I am a fan of WSD but that doesn't make much sense. Five top 10 prospects when Sale only got 3? Granted, Moncada was probably worth 2 top prospects by himself. Did he have sources or was he just throwing that out there?

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 6, 2017 -> 03:00 PM) Speaking of the Astros, OF Ramon Laureano is an interesting prospect. He had stupid numbers last year. Sickels has him number 7 on his list, whereas Baseball America doesn't even have him in the top 10. Wonder how the White Sox feel about him. Agreed on Laureano, interesting prospect. Here's a write up on him along with an Astros top 10 from a prospect website https://prospect361.com/al-team-prospects/houston-astros/ . The writer came away very impressed with him. Martes, Tucker, Laureano, + seems like a very good package that is on par with what the Sox got for Sale.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 4, 2017 -> 05:01 PM) Still, if Hahn is asking for a deal similar to the Sale deal it'd look like Torres Rutherford Andujar Tate and that could be scaring Cashman off. That is an ideal trade package but I'm guessing you are right and Cashman doesn't go there. I still love the Yankees as a trade partner because of the depth of their system. I think there could be a deal where Rutherford is the headliner along with very good second and third pieces, with flyers on a fourth and fifth piece based on scouting. Something like: Rutherford Sheffield/Kaprielian (maybe Acevedo) Andujar/Fowler Montgomery Sands