CWSOX45 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Hey everyone, I've been pretty busy and haven't had the chance to be at the site lately. Even with all the speculated trades not going through, (Nomar etc.) I still think the Sox have a pretty solid chance of winning this division. When I look at what the Twins and Royals have done, I'm not at all impressed. According to various sites, (Majorleaguebaseball.com, rotoworld, ESPN.com) here is a list of the free agents and players from trades we have acquired this off-season. (I've also included minor league deals, or most of them) Juan Uribe SS Cliff Politte RP Mike Jackson (he pitched for Cleveland a couple years back. It was reported on MLB.com as the same day we acquired Jose Santiago.) Jose Santiago RP Robert Person SP Francisco Campos (was he signed as a free agent? Or drafted?) Vic Darensbourg? ( I heard he had to pass a physical to sign, anyone know if it has been declared official yet.) Well obviously Kenny is trying to catch lightening in a bottle, as he did last year when he signed Loaiza. Most of these deals aren't bad, I actually think players like Politte, Jackson, Santiago, and Person will actually benefit the Sox in the long run. Kansas City: Key Players Lost via free agency: Raul Ibanez (biggest blow) Michael Tucker Rondell White Brent Mayne Al Levine Mike DiFelice Additions Matt Stairs (Pretty good pick-up by Baird and the Royals front office) Scott Sullivan (I was upset when the Sox did not offer him arbitration. He strenghtens their pen A LOT. Graffanino (Again I'm sad to see him go, one of the best utility guys in the game.) Kelly Stinett Juan Gonzalez (Sure it was a good signing, but he is basically their replacement for Ibanez, I think the Royals offense will put up similar numbers. If Gonzalez can stay healthy, which is obviously a huge question mark.) Benito Santiago (An excellent pick-up, calls a great game behind the plate. Should help maturing young pitchers.) Rich Thompson Minnesota Players Lost: Chris Gomez Jesse Orosco LaTroy Hawkins (big blow) Eddie Guardado (yet another big blow) Tony Fiore Denny Hocking Kenny Rogers AJ Pierzynski Dustan Mohr Eric Milton Additions Henry Blanco C Augie Ojeda INF Kevin Tolar LHP Aaron Fultz LHP Juan Diaz 1B Rick Helling RHP Boof Bonser RHP (a lock for their rotation in the near future if not this season) Joe Nathan RHP Francisco Liriano LHP Carlos Silva RHP Nick Punto INF Bobby Korecky RHP J.T. Thomas LHP As you can see no team has made drastic improvements to their club. I think the Twins have done a good job this past off-season replacing Guardado and Hawkins in their pen with guys like Nathan and Silva. Bonser is a solid youngster who I think will make the 5th spot in the rotation. Let's take a look at the teams line-up C: Olivo/Alomar, Mauer, Santiago: Advantage: KC. Santiago is a solid offensive and defensive player. I know Joe Mauer is going to be a stud, but I expect him to struggle at the Major League Level off the bat. Than again anything could happen if Miguel Olivo figures out how to hit a breaking ball. 1. KC 2. MIN 3. SOX 1B: Konerko/ Mientkiewicz/ Sweeney: Konerko and Sweeney have the potential to put up some monster numbers. Hopefully Konerko will return to his 2002 form. Mientkiewicz however is one of the best defensive first basemen in the game. However I think the advantage still goes to Royals, followed by the Twins and Sox. 2B: Harris/Rivas/ Relaford: Willie Harris and Luis Rivas have incredible range at second base. Relaford is more of a utility guy. The Twins have the edge at this position. However I am a true believer of Willie Harris and I think he will play hard every day and will give the Sox some spark. Therefore the Twins have the advantage with Rivas followed by Harris and than Relaford. SS: Valentin/Guzman/Berroa: I've never been a fan of Jose Valentin. I will just leave it at that. Berroa and Guzman are two great young shortstops. Both are great players and I think they are both deserve the top spot: 1. KC/MIN 3. SOX 3B: Crede/ Koskie/ Randa: I love Joe Crede, and I think that if he can live up to all the hype that has surrounded him I think he could easily out perform both Koskie and Randa. However Koskie is a proven hitter at the major league level. Therefore I also belive Minnesoa has the advantage at this position: 1. MIN 2. Sox 3. KC LF: Lee/ Jones/ Gueil: Carlos Lee has really improved his defense, however he still isn't close to the defensive player Jacque Jones is. 1. MIN 2. SOX 3. KC CF: Rowand/Reed, Hunter/ Beltrán: 1. Hunter (best defensive outfielder) 2. Beltrán (great all around player) 3. Rowand/Reed (Rowand is a solid player, but isn't worthy of holding Beltrán or Hunter's jock. Reed could possibly be compared to these guys later in his career if he lives up to his potential.) RF: Maggs, Gonzalez, Stewart: It's Maggs hands down. Gonzalez is a great offensive player, but isn't a great fielder. Shannon Stewart is a great lead-off hitter and will be the key to the Twin's success. 1. SOX 2. MIN 3. KC DH: Thomas, LeCroy, Harvey: I'm going with Frank on this one. I'll take those power numbers that Frank put up last year. Hopefully he can get his average up to .290-.300. 1. SOX 2. MIN 3. KC Rotation and Bullpen: SOX 1. Loaiza 2. Buehrle 3. Garland 4. Schoeneweiss 5. Rauch/Person Kansas City: 1. May 2. Anderson 3. Hernandez 4. Ascencio 5. George/Gobble/Appier Minnesota: 1. Radke 2. Santana 3.Lohse 4.Helling 5. Mays Out of the three teams Kansas City has the weakest rotation. Hernandez and Ascencio were out most of the year and Darrell May was rocked hard by the Sox and other teams in August and September. The Sox rotation is still a solid rotation if and only if Jon Garland can step it up a notch. I am not sure how Shoe will respond to starting everyday, and I hope that Rauch can finally succeed in the biggs. Minnesota's rotation is the strongest however, even after losing Milton. The only question marks will be Helling and Mays. Mays was hit hard last year and demoted to the pen. I think the Sox starting three: Loaiza, Buehrle and Garland can match up fairly well against Radke, Santana, and Lohse. Bullpen: SOX Marte (Closer) Koch Wunsch Politte Ginter Wright Grilli/Santiago/Jackson/Darensbourg/Adkins Kansas City: MacDougle (Closer) Grimsley Leskanic Carrasco Sullivan Affeldt Bukvich Minnesota: Nathan (Closer) Romero Rincón Balfour Silva Pulido Thomas When looking at the bullpens, Minnesota still has the best bullpen even after losing Guardado and Hawkins. Kansas City's pen has improved slightly with the addition of Sullivan. The Sox bullpen has the chance of being the best in the central, if Koch and Politte regains their 2002 form and if guys like Santiago, Jackson, Grilli or Ginter step it up a notch. Either way winning this division will not be IMPOSSIBLE for any of the three teams. I think the strongest team is still Minnesota followed by the Sox. Kansas City does not have the experienced starting pitching to last them all year. That is my evaluation. Please make comments and point out any thing I might have missed. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 I forgot to mention that Joe Mays is actually out the whole season due to Tommy John Surgeory. Which makes their rotation not as strong. According to a couple of Twins fans, the Twins are looking to start Balfour, Rincon or possibly even Carlos Silva in that 5th spot. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseBallGuy Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I think Mauer is going to do better than a lot of people think. I can see him putting up a good AVG and OBP with a bad SLG. He'll also play great defense and call a quality game. Santiago's age also might catch up with him for the Royals. Who knows what our catchers will do.. And I agree with you on Crede. He should be a lot better next year. I also like Beltran more than Hunter. Beltran's the better hitter and his defensive stats were actually better than Hunter in '03. Hernandez will be out all year with TJ surgery. Affeldt will start for the Royals until he gets a blister and then he will go to the bullpen. Appier, Asencio, Gobble, Snyder, and Greinke will all compete for the rest of the spots. May and Anderson will both likely take a step back to being just mediocre so the Royals will need their young guys to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurlyMan56 Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nice analysis there CWSOX45...If the Sox can get Mota the Sox definelty would have the advantage as far as the bullpen...I also disagree with Jones over Lee, I'll take Carlos anyday especially since his defense is much improved...Everything else I agree and great job... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 So after all that analysis and typing, you came up with 1. Twins 2. Sox 3. Royals Hmmm. Looking at last years AL Central standings might have been easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 I think Mauer is going to do better than a lot of people think. I can see him putting up a good AVG and OBP with a bad SLG. He'll also play great defense and call a quality game. Santiago's age also might catch up with him for the Royals. Who knows what our catchers will do.. And I agree with you on Crede. He should be a lot better next year. I also like Beltran more than Hunter. Beltran's the better hitter and his defensive stats were actually better than Hunter in '03. Hernandez will be out all year with TJ surgery. Affeldt will start for the Royals until he gets a blister and then he will go to the bullpen. Appier, Asencio, Gobble, Snyder, and Greinke will all compete for the rest of the spots. May and Anderson will both likely take a step back to being just mediocre so the Royals will need their young guys to step up. Oh yeah that's right. I forgot about Snyder and Greinke. Even though I thought they wanted to start him off in AAA, isn't he supposedly the number 1 pitching prospect in the minors? CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted January 17, 2004 Author Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nice analysis there CWSOX45...If the Sox can get Mota the Sox definelty would have the advantage as far as the bullpen...I also disagree with Jones over Lee, I'll take Carlos anyday especially since his defense is much improved...Everything else I agree and great job... I would take Carlos over Jacque too, but that's just because I'm biased and he's in a Sox uniform. But Jacque Jones is the best defensive left fielder in the American League, he's a five tool player. Carlos is a great player, but I still think Jacque is a better overall player. Than again if Carlos reaches his full potential, who knows what he could do. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseBallGuy Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Oh yeah that's right. I forgot about Snyder and Greinke. Even though I thought they wanted to start him off in AAA, isn't he supposedly the number 1 pitching prospect in the minors? CWSOX45 Greinke is pretty damn good. He'll likely head to AAA to start off the year but he'll be up before long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 Before the 2000, season all Sox fans were saying that we're too young offensively and we have a battered pitching staff and bullpen. This is the same thing we could have this year, with the Sox not the favorites, they may not be pressed in the begining of the year. Hopefully, that will lead to more victories at the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 17, 2004 Share Posted January 17, 2004 I would take Carlos over Jacque too, but that's just because I'm biased and he's in a Sox uniform. But Jacque Jones is the best defensive left fielder in the American League, he's a five tool player. Carlos is a great player, but I still think Jacque is a better overall player. Than again if Carlos reaches his full potential, who knows what he could do. CWSOX45 Definitely Carlos over Jones. Jones is overrated IMO. This guy couldn't hit a knuckle if it was thrown to him. Based on the years both had, Carlos has More power, Hits, Better avg.(this yr.) and can draw some walks(proved that '02) lee has also worked more on his defense every year. He's amazing to watch (I believe I saw him quite often on Web gems for Baseball tonight.) The only MAJOR advantage Jones has over Lee is that he's left-handed. I'd take Carlos in a heartbeat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Definitely Carlos over Jones. Jones is overrated IMO. This guy couldn't hit a knuckle if it was thrown to him. Based on the years both had, Carlos has More power, Hits, Better avg.(this yr.) and can draw some walks(proved that '02) lee has also worked more on his defense every year. He's amazing to watch (I believe I saw him quite often on Web gems for Baseball tonight.) The only MAJOR advantage Jones has over Lee is that he's left-handed. I'd take Carlos in a heartbeat though. what do mean he couldnt hit a knuckle??? he has hit over 300 the past years...carlos has more power...jacque is by far the better defensive player...id take jacque just because im dying to see better team defense on the south side...though they are close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 what do mean he couldnt hit a knuckle??? he has hit over 300 the past years...carlos has more power...jacque is by far the better defensive player...id take jacque just because im dying to see better team defense on the south side...though they are close You ask me, and the only two places the Twins have advantages on us defensively are in CF and 1B, and last year, those were hure advantages the Twins had all year with Dougie M(who IMO, is the best defensive 1Bman in the league, bar none), and Torii Hunter. The only way we could improve on that is by getting a better defensive CFer, and that would probably involve trading Maggs to Baltimore and having Luis Matos as part of that trade. That kid can flat out throw some leather. I have no idea how we would improve at 1B. Maybe send Konerko along with Maggs to Baltimore and have Baltimore send David Segui(who we'd be lucky if he played 60 games), and then have a guy like Jay Gibbons come over from the original trade and have him play 1B(I assume he has more range then Konerko). Something like that should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 what do mean he couldnt hit a knuckle??? he has hit over 300 the past years...carlos has more power...jacque is by far the better defensive player...id take jacque just because im dying to see better team defense on the south side...though they are close Do you watch the games he's in against knuckle ball pitchers? I didn't mean he couln't hit a lick. He's even admitted himself he's not a very good knuckle ball hitter. (reminds me of olivo) That's what I meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 OMG, He cant hit the Knuckle, he is going to suck against all 4 knuckle ball pitchers in the leauge! There are more than 4 knuckle ball pitchers in this league, but I know you meant that in sarcasm. The point is he is easier to strikeout than lee IMHO. That's why I would pick Lee over Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 There are more than 4 knuckle ball pitchers in this league, but I know you meant that in sarcasm. The point is he is easier to strikeout than lee IMHO. That's why I would pick Lee over Jones. ok gotcha...thought that was some new slang i wasnt up to date on ill give you that..carlos puts the ball in play a little more than jacque does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 ok gotcha...thought that was some new slang i wasnt up to date on ill give you that..carlos puts the ball in play a little more than jacque does O sorry about confusing you dude. Pretty soon I'll be asking myself the same thing when someone says something i'm not familar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 We have a lineup somewhat comparable to the Royals and Twins. We have a starting rotation comparable to the Royals and Twins. We have a bullpen comparable to the Royals and Twins. That being said - it isn't saying much at all. All three teams have huge holes in their rosters, so it's basically a crapshoot. Whatever team gets the longest hot streak, or whatever team finds the "magic dust and horseshoe up their ass" wins the division. This could very well be the weakest division in baseball history - it's at least in the Top Ten all-time. However, as the saying goes - "that's why they play the games." But the division winner could EASILY win with a 82-80 record, and I mean that sincerely. The division winner could also win with a record of 78-84, and I also mean that sincerely. The rest of the AL will pound on us - but the key will be us pounding on the other teams within the AL Central that we play 19 times each. If we could still just add one proven starter, the balance of power shifts to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
israel4ever Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hey everyone, I've been pretty busy and haven't had the chance to be at the site lately. Even with all the speculated trades not going through, (Nomar etc.) I still think the Sox have a pretty solid chance of winning this division. When I look at what the Twins and Royals have done, I'm not at all impressed. According to various sites, (Majorleaguebaseball.com, rotoworld, ESPN.com) here is a list of the free agents and players from trades we have acquired this off-season. (I've also included minor league deals, or most of them) Juan Uribe SS Cliff Politte RP Mike Jackson (he pitched for Cleveland a couple years back. It was reported on MLB.com as the same day we acquired Jose Santiago.) Jose Santiago RP Robert Person SP Francisco Campos (was he signed as a free agent? Or drafted?) Vic Darensbourg? ( I heard he had to pass a physical to sign, anyone know if it has been declared official yet.) Well obviously Kenny is trying to catch lightening in a bottle, as he did last year when he signed Loaiza. Most of these deals aren't bad, I actually think players like Politte, Jackson, Santiago, and Person will actually benefit the Sox in the long run. Kansas City: Key Players Lost via free agency: Raul Ibanez (biggest blow) Michael Tucker Rondell White Brent Mayne Al Levine Mike DiFelice Additions Matt Stairs (Pretty good pick-up by Baird and the Royals front office) Scott Sullivan (I was upset when the Sox did not offer him arbitration. He strenghtens their pen A LOT. Graffanino (Again I'm sad to see him go, one of the best utility guys in the game.) Kelly Stinett Juan Gonzalez (Sure it was a good signing, but he is basically their replacement for Ibanez, I think the Royals offense will put up similar numbers. If Gonzalez can stay healthy, which is obviously a huge question mark.) Benito Santiago (An excellent pick-up, calls a great game behind the plate. Should help maturing young pitchers.) Rich Thompson Minnesota Players Lost: Chris Gomez Jesse Orosco LaTroy Hawkins (big blow) Eddie Guardado (yet another big blow) Tony Fiore Denny Hocking Kenny Rogers AJ Pierzynski Dustan Mohr Eric Milton Additions Henry Blanco C Augie Ojeda INF Kevin Tolar LHP Aaron Fultz LHP Juan Diaz 1B Rick Helling RHP Boof Bonser RHP (a lock for their rotation in the near future if not this season) Joe Nathan RHP Francisco Liriano LHP Carlos Silva RHP Nick Punto INF Bobby Korecky RHP J.T. Thomas LHP As you can see no team has made drastic improvements to their club. I think the Twins have done a good job this past off-season replacing Guardado and Hawkins in their pen with guys like Nathan and Silva. Bonser is a solid youngster who I think will make the 5th spot in the rotation. Let's take a look at the teams line-up C: Olivo/Alomar, Mauer, Santiago: Advantage: KC. Santiago is a solid offensive and defensive player. I know Joe Mauer is going to be a stud, but I expect him to struggle at the Major League Level off the bat. Than again anything could happen if Miguel Olivo figures out how to hit a breaking ball. 1. KC 2. MIN 3. SOX 1B: Konerko/ Mientkiewicz/ Sweeney: Konerko and Sweeney have the potential to put up some monster numbers. Hopefully Konerko will return to his 2002 form. Mientkiewicz however is one of the best defensive first basemen in the game. However I think the advantage still goes to Royals, followed by the Twins and Sox. 2B: Harris/Rivas/ Relaford: Willie Harris and Luis Rivas have incredible range at second base. Relaford is more of a utility guy. The Twins have the edge at this position. However I am a true believer of Willie Harris and I think he will play hard every day and will give the Sox some spark. Therefore the Twins have the advantage with Rivas followed by Harris and than Relaford. SS: Valentin/Guzman/Berroa: I've never been a fan of Jose Valentin. I will just leave it at that. Berroa and Guzman are two great young shortstops. Both are great players and I think they are both deserve the top spot: 1. KC/MIN 3. SOX 3B: Crede/ Koskie/ Randa: I love Joe Crede, and I think that if he can live up to all the hype that has surrounded him I think he could easily out perform both Koskie and Randa. However Koskie is a proven hitter at the major league level. Therefore I also belive Minnesoa has the advantage at this position: 1. MIN 2. Sox 3. KC LF: Lee/ Jones/ Gueil: Carlos Lee has really improved his defense, however he still isn't close to the defensive player Jacque Jones is. 1. MIN 2. SOX 3. KC CF: Rowand/Reed, Hunter/ Beltrán: 1. Hunter (best defensive outfielder) 2. Beltrán (great all around player) 3. Rowand/Reed (Rowand is a solid player, but isn't worthy of holding Beltrán or Hunter's jock. Reed could possibly be compared to these guys later in his career if he lives up to his potential.) RF: Maggs, Gonzalez, Stewart: It's Maggs hands down. Gonzalez is a great offensive player, but isn't a great fielder. Shannon Stewart is a great lead-off hitter and will be the key to the Twin's success. 1. SOX 2. MIN 3. KC DH: Thomas, LeCroy, Harvey: I'm going with Frank on this one. I'll take those power numbers that Frank put up last year. Hopefully he can get his average up to .290-.300. 1. SOX 2. MIN 3. KC Rotation and Bullpen: SOX 1. Loaiza 2. Buehrle 3. Garland 4. Schoeneweiss 5. Rauch/Person Kansas City: 1. May 2. Anderson 3. Hernandez 4. Ascencio 5. George/Gobble/Appier Minnesota: 1. Radke 2. Santana 3.Lohse 4.Helling 5. Mays Out of the three teams Kansas City has the weakest rotation. Hernandez and Ascencio were out most of the year and Darrell May was rocked hard by the Sox and other teams in August and September. The Sox rotation is still a solid rotation if and only if Jon Garland can step it up a notch. I am not sure how Shoe will respond to starting everyday, and I hope that Rauch can finally succeed in the biggs. Minnesota's rotation is the strongest however, even after losing Milton. The only question marks will be Helling and Mays. Mays was hit hard last year and demoted to the pen. I think the Sox starting three: Loaiza, Buehrle and Garland can match up fairly well against Radke, Santana, and Lohse. Bullpen: SOX Marte (Closer) Koch Wunsch Politte Ginter Wright Grilli/Santiago/Jackson/Darensbourg/Adkins Kansas City: MacDougle (Closer) Grimsley Leskanic Carrasco Sullivan Affeldt Bukvich Minnesota: Nathan (Closer) Romero Rincón Balfour Silva Pulido Thomas When looking at the bullpens, Minnesota still has the best bullpen even after losing Guardado and Hawkins. Kansas City's pen has improved slightly with the addition of Sullivan. The Sox bullpen has the chance of being the best in the central, if Koch and Politte regains their 2002 form and if guys like Santiago, Jackson, Grilli or Ginter step it up a notch. Either way winning this division will not be IMPOSSIBLE for any of the three teams. I think the strongest team is still Minnesota followed by the Sox. Kansas City does not have the experienced starting pitching to last them all year. That is my evaluation. Please make comments and point out any thing I might have missed. CWSOX45 Excellant analysis! However, you fail to mention that we lost EIGHT players to free agency, and did NOT upgrade at any of the positions at which we lost players. (No replacements for Colon, Everett, Robbie, Graff, Gordon, Sullivan, etc.,). Basically, the Royals improved themselves, the Twins took a step back, the Sox took a HUGE step back, and Cleveland and Detroit are comin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Why do we quote 100 lines posts that everyone that has progressed through the thread has already read? Some people must live to scroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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