April 7, 200421 yr :fyou :dips*** Relax, YAS If he had truly moved on like he said he has, he wouldn't have posted 4 responses in a row in the thread.
April 7, 200421 yr Relax, YAS If he had truly moved on like he said he has, he wouldn't have posted 4 responses in a row in the thread. The point is, I didn't say anything remotely insulting to him or anyone else. I just complimented Rex on the way he responded to those comments. I didn't catagorize the comments in any offensive way either. Then this asswipe resorts to that crap.
April 7, 200421 yr My comments are intended for everyone of our fellow Sox fans that continue to dwell on what we could still have or what we have given up. I can't stand it. Then kindly don't read the thread..... Or sit on your hands if the urge to type is that great. In a way you are because the pitcher he was with us was a pitcher in the American League. The pitcher he has become and developed into has done so in the National League. There is no proof that he would have done so in the American League or developed into this pitcher with the White Sox. Once again, you don't get it. It has NOTHING to do with AL vs. NL. That is purely circumstantial. Never was it said that his success in the AL would mirror that of what he has done in the NL. It was said that I (as well as some others) were not surprised at his success and expected him to be successful all along. It is as simple as that. Thanks again for your two cents......
April 7, 200421 yr Then kindly don't read the thread..... Or sit on your hands if the urge to type is that great. Once again, you don't get it. It has NOTHING to do with AL vs. NL. That is purely circumstantial. Never was it said that his success in the AL would mirror that of what he has done in the NL. It was said that I (as well as some others) were not surprised at his success and expected him to be successful all along. It is as simple as that. Thanks again for your two cents...... I can respond to anything I like just as you can comment on how you were not suprised on Wells' success. Thank you for giving me those options though. Much appreciated. Just as I have said, you were not intending to compare the two, that is just the way it is because of the way his career has gone so far. His success that you are not suprised at has only come in the NL. He was not successful in the AL and there is no proof that he ever would have been or will be. I do get it. I don't know if you do. You can have my two cents anytime.
April 7, 200421 yr The point is, I didn't say anything remotely insulting to him or anyone else. I just complimented Rex on the way he responded to those comments. I didn't catagorize the comments in any offensive way either. Then this asswipe resorts to that crap. YASNY all I am saying is that post was the biggest ass kissing fest I have ever seen. I am sure I could have put it more delicately, but I really didn't think you would get so bent out of shape over it.
April 7, 200421 yr Relax, YAS If he had truly moved on like he said he has, he wouldn't have posted 4 responses in a row in the thread. Cheat, I will never get over the our fans worrying about deals we have done in the past. About what would have happened or what could have been.
April 7, 200421 yr Cheat, I will never get over the our fans worrying about deals we have done in the past. About what would have happened or what could have been. It's the nature of the beast, SSI. "What could have been.." is all we have without a positive postseason in 50 years..
April 7, 200421 yr It's the nature of the beast, SSI. "What could have been.." is all we have without a positive postseason in 50 years.. The saddest thing is how true this post is...
April 7, 200421 yr Just as I have said, you were not intending to compare the two, that is just the way it is because of the way his career has gone so far. His success that you are not suprised at has only come in the NL. He was not successful in the AL and there is no proof that he ever would have been or will be. I do get it. I don't know if you do. I'll compare the two since you're looking for a fight and I have the numbers to back it up.... You forget that there are interleague games... Kips ERA in interleague games is even more impressive than the rest of his starts... 15IP 14H 5R 5ER 5BB 10K --- That works out to an ERA of 3.00 a WHIP@1.25 and BAA about .250 -------------------------- You'll no doubt argue that pitchers in the national league have a lower ERA, while this is true, It's significantly less than what you think it is... American League Year R/G RA G ERA IP H H/G BB BB/G HR HR/G SO SO/G CG SHO SV pAge +----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---- 2003 4.86 11061 2270 4.53 20224 20905 9.2 7111 3.1 2500 1.10 13735 6.05 110 109 538 28.7 2002 4.81 10862 2264 4.46 20164 20592 9.1 7290 3.2 2457 1.09 14020 6.19 115 122 558 28.7 National League Year R/G RA G ERA IP H H/G BB BB/G HR HR/G SO SO/G CG SHO SV pAge +----+-----+-----+----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----+----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---- 2003 4.61 11917 2590 4.28 23110 23152 8.9 8778 3.4 2707 1.05 17066 6.59 99 150 661 28.8 2002 4.45 11546 2588 4.10 23105 22680 8.8 8956 3.5 2602 1.01 17374 6.71 99 153 666 28.8 The average difference between the two leagues is over the two years is 0.3 ER... Applying that to the kippers numbers over the past two years .... Kips ERA over 2002&3 = 3.43 Kips Estimated AL ERA over the same time frame = 3.73 To give that 3.73 number some meaning I'll compare it to Mark Beuhrle's over the same time frame....MB 2002&3 ERA = 4.05
April 7, 200421 yr I can respond to anything I like just as you can comment on how you were not suprised on Wells' success. Thank you for giving me those options though. Much appreciated. Just as I have said, you were not intending to compare the two, that is just the way it is because of the way his career has gone so far. His success that you are not suprised at has only come in the NL. He was not successful in the AL and there is no proof that he ever would have been or will be. I do get it. I don't know if you do. You can have my two cents anytime. If it were only worth two cents.......
April 7, 200421 yr I dont think we can say how wells is based on one start this year...he is good pitcher and would have defintely helped us more than ritchie, but i think it is a stretch to call him an "ace" after only one outing...If you want to make those assumptions then I guess it's safe to say the Yankees are worse than the Devil Rays..or that Travis Hafner is the best hitter in the league...
April 7, 200421 yr Travis Hafner is the best hitter in the league... Not even close -- Kazou Matsui has an OPS of 3.667 -- He's gotta be the best.
April 7, 200421 yr YASNY all I am saying is that post was the biggest ass kissing fest I have ever seen. I am sure I could have put it more delicately, but I really didn't think you would get so bent out of shape over it. I was impressed with the way Rex handled himself. And I expressed that. I wasn't sucking to him, nor kissing his ass. I'm willing to bury the hatchet here, but let me suggest using a bit more tact in the future.
April 7, 200421 yr I dont think we can say how wells is based on one start this year...he is good pitcher and would have defintely helped us more than ritchie, but i think it is a stretch to call him an "ace" after only one outing...If you want to make those assumptions then I guess it's safe to say the Yankees are worse than the Devil Rays..or that Travis Hafner is the best hitter in the league... I don't think he was being called an "ace" perse... Just a few guys tossing around their thoughts that he would become a "good" pitcher.
April 7, 200421 yr If you look on the first page people were calling him an ace, but for the most part people were calling him a good pitcher and I agree with that...
April 7, 200421 yr I dont think we can say how wells is based on one start this year...he is good pitcher and would have defintely helped us more than ritchie, but i think it is a stretch to call him an "ace" after only one outing...If you want to make those assumptions then I guess it's safe to say the Yankees are worse than the Devil Rays..or that Travis Hafner is the best hitter in the league... I agree he is not an ACE right now. Could he be? Yes.... Will he be? don't know... Is he very good now? Yep I think that sums up the whole gist of the point I was trying to make. I do agree with you that he is not among the elite pitchers at this point and may never be. That doesn't preclude him from being very good.
April 7, 200421 yr If you look on the first page people were calling him an ace, but for the most part people were calling him a good pitcher and I agree with that... To clarify, I was referring to the latter part of the thread. Sorry bout that..
April 7, 200421 yr Well I dont think you can call him a good pitcher until he gets 15+ wins consistently...I think his era would be higher if he pitched somewhere other than Pittsburg, which is known as a pitchers park...
April 7, 200421 yr Well I dont think you can call him a good pitcher until he gets 15+ wins consistently... Don't wanna sound like a dick cub fan or whatever but Mike, do you think Kerry Wood is a good pitcher? I'm asking this because he doesn't get 15+ wins consistantly but he gets hitters out. Do you think he's a good pitcher?
April 7, 200421 yr Well I dont think you can call him a good pitcher until he gets 15+ wins consistently...I think his era would be higher if he pitched somewhere other than Pittsburg, which is known as a pitchers park... Here's kip's number's: Year Tm Lg W L G GS GF CG IP H R ER HR BB SO HBP ERA *lgERA *ERA+ +--------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+ 2002 PIT NL 12 14 33 33 0 1 198.3 197 92 79 21 71 134 7 3.58 4.32 121 2003 PIT NL 10 9 31 31 0 1 197.3 171 77 72 24 76 147 7 3.28 4.24 129 And the definitions for lgERA and ERA+ lgERA - Earned Run Average for a league average pitcher in that ballpark or combination of ballparks. ERA+ - the ratio of the league's ERA (adjusted to the pitcher's ballpark) to that of the pitcher. > 100 is above average and Kip's ERA+ is well more than 100, which I would interperet as being a "good" pitcher.
April 7, 200421 yr I just got the chance to log back into this conversation and am appalled at the lack of manners, grace, dignity, respect, proper decorum, etiquette, baseball knowledge, etc, etc, Did I get it all in? Really I wish we could just agree to disagree. It's just a discussion after all and everyone has an opinion to express and they should be respected as such. After reading the posts I think I need some valium with a Jack Daniels chaser. :banghead I do like you all though. Now we should start talking about Bartolo Colon and his great start for the Angels. Jarry Manual
April 7, 200421 yr Kerry Wood is a dominating big game pitcher and I dont think Wells can even be compared with Wood...I also hate the Cubs, but like Kerry Wood because he is from Texas..
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