We went to Iraq to help them, give them Western style democracy, find Sadaam's WMD, etc. We did not declare war on the Iraqi people. I am having a hard time keeping some sympathy for any Iraqi people after seeing the gruesome photos of the assasination of Berg.

I don't know. I think the US went into this without a full understanding of the culture or training of the prison guard-soldiers. Being that the assassins were supposedly Al-Queda, they might not have been true Iraqis.

seems like an odd question. the iraqi population comprises 26,298,900 people; i'm sure every last one of them is "bad."

seems like an odd question. the iraqi population comprises 26,298,900 people; i'm sure every last one of them is "bad."

I'm starting to get a :fyou them feeling which I had not had before. The prison abuse photos and assassination video is being debated on how they effect our public support of the war. Maybe that would have been a better question. I'm just having less sympathy for the Iraqis when I see the assassination and corpses being dragged through the street.

The thing that makes me what to :fyou right at them is that all this same type of stuff happened BEFORE the "prison-abuse scandal" ever happened.

 

Whether the "prison abuse" went on or not, they were looking for this type of barbarism to drive their point home anyway.

 

It's not the Iraqi people as a rule, though. It's outside influences. I had the pleasure of listening to a contractor that has been over there and was home last week for "vacation". He said that 95% of the people over there were great. And it's the 5% that you have to worry about - and about 4.99% of the 5% were outside influences trying to drive the US out.

We went to Iraq to help them, give them Western style democracy, find Sadaam's WMD, etc. We did not declare war on the Iraqi people. I am having a hard time keeping some sympathy for any Iraqi people after seeing the gruesome photos of the assasination of Berg.

First of all the WMD's are in all likelihood in Pakistan or Syria.

To suggest they never existed is garbage because it's a fact he used them in the decades prior to GW2. On his own people no less.

 

Secondly I never supported the war. When the campaign started I put a figure out there: 300 billion. People thought I was crazy. I told them how much do you think liberation wars cost? The military has to proceed like a surgeon & just like in Japan & Germany after WW 2 victory means spending a ton to rebuild them.

 

So I simply made an intelligent decision that the cost was too high & the need was too low. However I had a much cheaper & bolder plan that I sent to Bush before the war.

 

The best way to acheive a victory at the lowest cost in Iraq is to simply replace liberation of Iraq with liberation of Kurds. Suddenly the war is no longer about Iraq but about Saddam & the chief target of his regime. I told Bush to drop the WMD line way before his union address. I told him to begin a propaganda war bringing to the world the attrocities of the Kurds by Saddam (including the use of chem-bio WMDs on them) & to link their liberation cause with the same justification of the palestinians.

 

Then I said once public opinion is swayed heavily in favor of the Kurds if Saddam does not comply with the UN resolutions then defeat his regime & mobilize the Kurds to control Iraq.

 

===============================================

 

Having said that & given that we now live in 2004 I'm growing tired of this situation.

If they don't like occupation then we should retreat to Northern Iraq in Kurd friendly regions & let the Shia's & Shiite's feel the Kurds wrath. They don't want us there any more so let them experience the consequences of our not being there. Saddam's regime is gone. Mission accomplished. Bring the UN inspectors back to prevent any further emergence of WMDs. Establish US military bases along the borders so that we have a Gitanamo like position over our enemies in Iran, Syria, & yes Saudia Arabia. Secure the oil fields & place them under a Kurdish-American force until a stable US friendly government emerges. It will emerge. It might take the slashing of a few million Saddam loyalists by Kurdish rebels but it most certainly will emerge.

First of all the WMD's are in all likelihood in Pakistan or Syria. 

To suggest they never existed is garbage because it's a fact he used them in the decades prior to GW2.  On his own people no less.

 

Secondly I never supported the war.  When the campaign started I put a figure out there: 300 billion.  People thought I was crazy. I told them how much do you think liberation wars cost?  The military has to proceed like a surgeon & just like in Japan & Germany after WW 2 victory means spending a ton to rebuild them. 

 

So I simply made an intelligent decision that the cost was too high & the need was too low.  However I had a much cheaper & bolder plan that I sent to Bush before the war.

 

The best way to acheive a victory at the lowest cost in Iraq is to simply replace liberation of Iraq with liberation of Kurds.  Suddenly the war is no longer about Iraq but about Saddam & the chief target of his regime.  I told Bush to drop the WMD line way before his union address.  I told him to begin a propaganda war bringing to the world the attrocities of the Kurds by Saddam (including the use of chem-bio WMDs on them) & to link their liberation cause with the same justification of the palestinians.

 

Then I said once public opinion is swayed heavily in favor of the Kurds if Saddam does not comply with the UN resolutions then defeat his regime & mobilize the Kurds to control Iraq.

 

===============================================

 

Having said that & given that we now live in 2004 I'm growing tired of this situation.

If they don't like occupation then we should retreat to Northern Iraq in Kurd friendly regions & let the Shia's & Shiite's feel the Kurds wrath. They don't want us there any more so let them experience the consequences of our not being there.  Saddam's regime is gone.  Mission accomplished.  Bring the UN inspectors back to prevent any further emergence of WMDs.  Establish US military bases along the borders so that we have a Gitanamo like position over our enemies in Iran, Syria, & yes Saudia Arabia. Secure the oil fields & place them under a Kurdish-American force until a stable US friendly government emerges. It will emerge.  It might take the slashing of a few million Saddam loyalists by Kurdish rebels but it most certainly will emerge.

YOU have that much influence and a direct line to the President?

 

How impressive!

Really, to me it seems ridiculous to be losing American lives over having to be the peacemaker in Iraq. I hope many of you realize that's the main role we play now.

The S boys (Shia's & Shiites) don't like being occupied by us. The K boys (Kurds) want retribution upon them from Saddam's years. So our occupation in reality means protecting the S boys. We are protecting people who neither want or feel the need for our protection.

 

So ..

 

Let's retreat to American friendly territory that the Kurds control, secure the oil fields & let Iraq go about it's bloody revolution to determine who will control it: The K boys or the S boys. Now one can argue that supporting the K boys in this effort is imperialistic in nature but honestly if you see a friend of yours getting slaughtered would you not lend a hand in their support?

 

Saddam was never able to exterminate the Kurds though he spent many years trying. Clearly they are better trained to fight in the region than we are. Plus they are spiritually & emotionally inspired to do so. Let loose the real dogs of war & listen to the S boys cry for US protection.

YOU have that much influence and a direct line to the President?

 

How impressive!

I wish. I just have e-mail addresses. Sometimes they reply & sometimes they don't.

But they keep me on their mailing lists even when I don't agree with them

I wish.  I just have e-mail addresses.  Sometimes they reply & sometimes they don't.

But they keep me on their mailing lists even when I don't agree with them 

Isn't it amazing how that works?

 

We went to Iraq to help them, give them Western style democracy, find Sadaam's WMD, etc. We did not declare war on the Iraqi people. I am having a hard time keeping some sympathy for any Iraqi people after seeing the gruesome photos of the assasination of Berg.

I dont believe that for a second. The media isint going to get any ratings out of good Iraqi's. All they are after is blood and mayhem cause that's what sells.

I dont believe that for a second.  The media isint going to get any ratings out of good Iraqi's.  All they are after is blood and mayhem cause that's what sells.

Good for you, Nuke.

 

Just because we don't see the average non-terrorist Iraqi civilians in the newscasts it doesn't mean they are a myth.

Good for you, Nuke. 

 

Just because we don't see the average non-terrorist Iraqi civilians in the newscasts it doesn't mean they are a myth.

I have seen my fair share of non-terrorist iraqi's personally and they constitute about 99% of the population there. The vast majority of them are sick of war and oppression and just want to get on with their lives. They also strongly dissapprove of what these cretins CALLING themselves martyr's and holy warriors are doing.

I have seen my fair share of non-terrorist iraqi's personally and they constitute about 99% of the population there.  The vast majority of them are sick of war and oppression and just want to get on with their lives.  They also strongly dissapprove of what these cretins CALLING themselves martyr's and holy warriors are doing.

So they are a lot like the Palestinians.

So they are a lot like the Palestinians.

The palestinians, whose sworn objective is the destruction of Isreal? Those people. Nah. Iraqi insurgents aren't too bright but Palestinians are completely brain dead.

The palestinians,  whose sworn objective is the destruction of Isreal?  Those people. Nah.  Iraqi insurgents aren't too bright but Palestinians are completely brain dead.

I meant the vast majority are

QUOTE (NUKE_CLEVELAND @ May 12 2004, 02:58 PM)

I have seen my fair share of non-terrorist iraqi's personally and they constitute about 99% of the population there. The vast majority of them are sick of war and oppression and just want to get on with their lives. They also strongly dissapprove of what these cretins CALLING themselves martyr's and holy warriors are doing. 

substituting Palestinian for Iraqi.